LFS opinion on cycling & bacteria

[Anomander]

Hello all,

I went to pick up some RCS from my LFS today. They will be the first livestock in my (low tech) tank, which is planted with Salvinia, Java Fern, Java Moss, and Anubias. The 65 litre tank has been planted for about ten weeks, with two sponge filters.

When I told the LFS employee that the RCS were to be the first livestock in my 10 week old planted tank, he raised the concern that the bacteria necessary for dealing with the shrimp waste "would now be dead" as they wouldn't have been fed with animal waste for a while. I think he assumed I'd used some starter bacteria when I first set up the tank.

In effect, according to the LFS employee I had left it too long before adding livestock. He advised me to add some more bacteria if I had it. I politely thanked him for the advice, bought my shrimp, and left.

Am I correct in thinking that his advice, whilst well meaning, was incorrect? It seemed to go against the excellent advice I have received on this forum.

 

[dw1305]

When I told the LFS employee that the RCS were to be the first livestock in my 10 week old planted tank, he raised the concern that the bacteria necessary for dealing with the shrimp waste "would now be dead" as they wouldn't have been fed with animal waste for a while. I think he assumed I'd used some starter bacteria when I first set up the tank.

Only too common unfortunately. If it looks like a good shop you could try entering into a conversation with them.

In effect, according to the LFS employee I had left it too long before adding livestock. He advised me to add some more bacteria if I had it. I politely thanked him for the advice, bought my shrimp, and left.

I think that is also part of the issue, if "cycling" doesn't exist a whole revenue stream is lost. That is a real issue with "plant and wait", nobody makes any money out of it.

Am I correct in thinking that his advice, whilst well meaning, was incorrect? It seemed to go against the excellent advice I have received on this forum.

Yes, totally wrong for a planted tank. If you feel it would help you could take into the LFS any of the scientific papers from the Newton lab., but while you might get a hearing, they may just tell you to p*ss off.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Anomander]

If you feel it would help you could take into the LFS any of the scientific papers from the Newton lab., but while you might get a hearing, they may just tell you to p*ss off.

😄. Let's just say it's an established chain of aquatic shops (my regular independent LFS is currently undergoing a refurb). It makes you wonder at how much incorrect advice new fishkeepers are being exposed to; not only online but from professionals as well.

 

[Spartacus]

Sounds about as much tripe as this I saw at a Pets @ Home.

I have literally been to 6 local fish shops over the weekend. The last one is a tiny independent it’s the only one I spent any money (could have spent more but still waiting for my tank to season)

My local Maidenhead aquatics has more dead than alive fish and when you point it out you get an attitude of would you like me to get the dead fish out?

There is a LFS around a 2 hour drive from me - The staff are knowledgeable. Fish are of good quality and price as is hard scape but the equipment is about double the cost of Horizon etc

I’m going to walk with my feet (wheels) and go there and the local independent 😊

All the best with the tank!

Thanks,

Murray

 

[Anomander]

Sounds about as much tripe as this I saw at a Pets @ Home.

I have literally been to 6 local fish shops over the weekend. The last one is a tiny independent it’s the only one I spent any money (could have spent more but still waiting for my tank to season)

My local Maidenhead aquatics has more dead than alive fish and when you point it out you get an attitude of would you like me to get the dead fish out?

There is a LFS around a 2 hour drive from me - The staff are knowledgeable. Fish are of good quality and price as is hard scape but the equipment is about double the cost of Horizon etc

I’m going to walk with my feet (wheels) and go there and the local independent 😊

All the best with the tank!

Thanks,

Murray

I can't believe the info in the attachment! A whole day - such patience!

 

[ElleDee]

Maybe people with heavily stocked fish-only tanks can't afford to be cavalier, but I think most warnings about one thing or another killing all your tank bacteria are seriously overblown. You can set yourself back especially early on, but bacteria is quite good at surviving and adjusting its population quickly in response to changes in food availability, etc.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Let's just say it's an established chain of aquatic shops

OK, that (unfortunately) makes perfect sense.

my regular independent LFS is currently undergoing a refurb

The last one is a tiny independent it’s the only one I spent any money

Sounds about as much tripe as this I saw at a Pets @ Home. I have literally been to 6 local fish shops over the weekend.

It is pretty shocking.

Realistically it is back to a <"fish-keeper with a shop">, not a "shop-keeper with fish". It also tells you what the issue is in some ways, we aren't the people that are keeping LFS afloat, it is the people who are <"following that sort of advice">.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Maybe people with heavily stocked fish-only tanks can't afford to be cavalier

We've talked about this as the <"Mbuna scenario"> - <"When to add fish!">. There is ample proof that you can maintain a <"large amount of fish"> purely with microbial biofiltration, but I'm not sure it is ever a tenable long term option, because you will always be <"teetering on the brink of disaster">.

...... With efficient mechanical and biological filtration you can keep fish at <"insane stocking rates">, <"even without plants"> and <"we have plants">.

Personally I'm <"keen for people to keep planted tanks">, for them to have the advantages of <"plant microbe bio-filtration">, just because it makes fish-keeping <"a lot easier and a lot more enjoyable"> and surely that is what the chain-stores should want as well?

cheers Darrel