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Leaving out GH Booster from EI dosing

willsy

willsy

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
98
Hi

I'm currently dosing EI and was wondering if I need to dose GH Booster for EI?

I currently have very hard water and mix 50% RO and 50% tap. This gives me a GH of around 7.

Can I just dose Potassium Sulphate and Magnesium sulphate at water change instead of GH Booster?

My goal is not to raise my GH which is already high enough and seems to creep up over time.

Been searching for an answer to this but not found anything definite!

Thanks :)

Will
 
Hello,
EI has nothing to do with GH or with GH Booster.
GH Booster is an adjunct to the dosing scheme and is to be used at the discretion of the hobbyist.

Cheers,
 
Hi all,
willsy said:
I currently have very hard water and mix 50% RO and 50% tap. This gives me a GH of around 7.
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No, you don't need the GH booster. Your tap water will supply dGH calcium (Ca++) and dKH (2HCO3-), and your EI dosing magnesium (Mg++).

We don't tend to have much magnesium in UK tap water, for <"geological reasons">, all the dGH/dKH in the tap water comes from dissolved limestone (CaCO3).
willsy said:
Can I just dose Potassium Sulphate
Click to expand...
You can just dose the appropriate amount for for EI, it doesn't add any dGH (it is a monovalent ion (K+)) or dKH (it isn't a carbonate).
willsy said:
My goal is not to raise my GH which is already high enough and seems to creep up over time.
Click to expand...
Can you use more RO? If you can just cut the proportion of tap down to ~25%. Rain-water might be another option, it isn't to every-one's taste, but I've used without any problem since the 1970s.

Rather than trying to measure dGH etc. I use a <"conductivity meter"> to give me an idea of ion levels. You cut your RO with tap to give a datum, and then you add all the EI salts (to your normal dosage) and re-measure the conductivity of the tank water to give you an "in-tank" datum.

If the conductivity rises over time, this will then tell you that you need to change more water (or use more RO in your water change water).

cheers Darrel
 
Thanks so much for your advice Ceg and Darrel. Sounds like a sensible way forwards... I will give it a go! :)

Cheers

Will
 
GH booster is majority calcium anyway. There's no point going to the trouble of mixing 50/50 RO then adding back more or less what you took out with the booster.

Personally I reconstitute RO/DI with GH booster to get a GH of 6 and some potassium to boot. I often top up the MgSo4 a little depending on how the tank looks. The rest of my dosing regime consists of EDTA 13% iron, and KNO3 to top up on potassium and nitrate. I currently don't add phosphates.
 
HiNtZ said:
GH booster is majority calcium anyway. There's no point going to the trouble of mixing 50/50 RO then adding back more or less what you took out with the booster.

Personally I reconstitute RO/DI with GH booster to get a GH of 6 and some potassium to boot. I often top up the MgSo4 a little depending on how the tank looks. The rest of my dosing regime consists of EDTA 13% iron, and KNO3 to top up on potassium and nitrate. I currently don't add phosphates.
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So there's no harm adding a little magnesium and potassium at water change (instead of GH boost)? I guess I'm just trying to ensure that there are no deficiencies.

Cheers

Will
 
willsy said:
So there's no harm adding a little magnesium and potassium at water change (instead of GH boost)? I guess I'm just trying to ensure that there are no deficiencies.
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No there is no harm. You never have to worry about adding too much, however, as stated by other posters, if you are reconstituting RO from your tap, and if your tap is already rich in Calcium and Magnesium then there is little point. Ca and Mg just have to be present in the water to be effective. You do not need a lot of these. That's why they are called micro-nutrients.

If you are dosing NPK then there is little need to add more K.

Cheers,
 
Thanks guys. I'll just stick with EI and stop fiddling. ;)
 
Kezzab said:
If you are doing EI there should not be deficiencies, that's the point of EI.
If a specific issue arises, deal with it then.
My tuppence worth.
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Not entirely accurate. EI used to incorporate MGSO4 when I started 5 years ago yet now when you buy the kits it doesn't come with MGSO4 but instead says to add a spoon or two of GH booster. If I went on the advice to add GH booster to my tap water (which I did) I would show Mg deficiency constantly (which I also did). Not only that, but the excess K that comes in on the booster reeked havoc with my higher doses of KNO3 during the week.

Great if you live in a soft water area with a nice balance of calcium/magnesium already in the water, however I do not. 16 dGH and mostly all calcium. If I ran my tank for a week with tap water and no magnesium my S. repens will show a tortoise shell mottled pattern to the leaves and everything else will go downhill from there ultimately leading to severe chlorosis. Adding GH booster to water that is literally 95% calcium already is utterly pointless & a waste of money/time.

Hence why I opted to reconstitute RO with just GH booster. I know what's going in accurately. Now with GH boost taking the water to 6GH I have a 3/1 ratio of Calcium to magnesium with 15ppm of K going in at the same time. This means for my week I don't have to add any more magnesium (I still do now and then though, a pinch) and I don't have to add K for 3 days at least.

Depending on which category you fall in to depends on what regime you should incorporate.

Soft water with some Mg already in - GH boost
Hard water with no/low Mg - add Mgso4 only

I'm surprised this is not explained by the websites selling the kits. If they were much cop and cared who they were selling to, they would provide either GH booster or MGSO4 in the EI kits based on your geographical location.
 
HiNtZ said:
EI used to incorporate MGSO4 when I started 5 years ago
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Just to clarify: This statement is also not entirely accurate. EI never addressed Mg or Ca deficiencies - ONLY NPK and the traces typically found in CSM+B.

EI does not address CO2 either, nor does it address Calcium or alkalinity.
Soft water, hard water....these are all issue that have to be addressed as the need arises.

The basic dosing program is NPK+Traces.

If vendors of dosing powders add or delete MgSO4 or other adjuncts then that is a business decision and is based on cost, logistics, supply and demand...factors that EI cannot control.

Cheers,
 
HiNtZ said:
Soft water with some Mg already in - GH boost
Hard water with no/low Mg - add Mgso4 only

I'm surprised this is not explained by the websites selling the kits. If they were much cop and cared who they were selling to, they would provide either GH booster or MGSO4 in the EI kits based on your geographical location.
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Does it matter how much mgso4 I add in addition to EI for a 180L aquarium? Say I add half a teaspoon at water change for example?

Thanks

Will.
 
willsy said:
Does it matter how much mgso4 I add in addition to EI for a 180L aquarium? Say I add half a teaspoon at water change for example?

Thanks

Will.
Click to expand...

I add 5ppm a week with MGNO3. If you are using MGSO4 - to raise magnesium 1ppm in a 180L would be 1/4tsp + 1/8tsp (that's as accurate as you'll get for teaspoons). Either way, it's 1.8 grams if you have scales.
 
ceg4048 said:
Just to clarify: This statement is also not entirely accurate. EI never addressed Mg or Ca deficiencies - ONLY NPK and the traces typically found in CSM+B.

EI does not address CO2 either, nor does it address Calcium or alkalinity.
Soft water, hard water....these are all issue that have to be addressed as the need arises.

The basic dosing program is NPK+Traces.

If vendors of dosing powders add or delete MgSO4 or other adjuncts then that is a business decision and is based on cost, logistics, supply and demand...factors that EI cannot control.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Ah right. Could this be why some people don't have luck with EI? Maybe they needed magnesium?
 
HiNtZ said:
Ah right. Could this be why some people don't have luck with EI? Maybe they needed magnesium?
Click to expand...
Well, some may blame the symptoms of Mg deficiency on EI, that certainly happens, however, using an EI dosing strategy does not guarantee overall success.
Hobbyists fail every day and just because they lay blame at the feet of some factor it does not mean that that factor is the culprit.

There is a lot more to plant husbandry than just the dosing program. What about poor CO2? How about poor flow/distribution? What if the hobbyist has poor maintenance habits?

Lots of bad habits, misdiagnoses of faults, as well as misunderstanding of basic principles can lead to failure with planted tanks.
EI is not responsible for stupidity, stubbornness, or ineptitude, yet, many people blame their failure on this dosing program while refusing to look in the mirror.
Nutrition is only one facet of the game.

It's also important to reiterate that Calcium and Magnesium are mirconutrients. I can't recall how many times I've had to repeat this mantra. Calcium and Magnesium only require a non-zero value to be present in the water column. I've run tanks using RO water adjusted only minimally to 2-4 dkH using products such as Seachem Equilibrium or the Sera product. Small amounts were added at water change and the pants were fine.

Micronutrients are not mobile in the plant. The stay in their originally distributed location and the plant continually accrues their concentration in each leaf.
That's why micronutrient shortages are seen primarily in young leaves, which have not had enough time to accrue sufficient quantities.

So you see, it doesn't really matter if the waters concentrations of Ca and Mg are low because as long as they do not fall to (and stay at) zero, each leaf will continue to absorb them and over time the concentrations within the leaf will rise, so this is self regulating.

In any case, Ca and Mg deficiencies will not cause catastrophic failure in a tank. I don't know why these two minor elements somehow morph into flavors of the month.
If plants fall over an melt into oblivion, it will never be due to shortages of these. Catastrophic failure means that the hobbyist is doing something seriously wrong which has nothing to do with Ca or Mg.

Cheers,
 
HiNtZ said:
I add 5ppm a week with MGNO3. If you are using MGSO4 - to raise magnesium 1ppm in a 180L would be 1/4tsp + 1/8tsp (that's as accurate as you'll get for teaspoons). Either way, it's 1.8 grams if you have scales.
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Hi Hints,

Can I ask if I should add 1/4+ 1/8 5X per week or add 1/4 + 1/8 just once per week? Cheers! Will.
 
willsy said:
Hi Hints,

Can I ask if I should add 1/4+ 1/8 5X per week or add 1/4 + 1/8 just once per week? Cheers! Will.
Click to expand...

Ignore me Hintz! You say that to raise 1ppm in a 180L I would add 1/4tsp + 1/8tsp. Couldn't be clearer!! ;)

Think I will add 1/4tsp + 1/8tsp with every EI dose 5X per week. This will take me up to the 5ppm in total...

Thanks very much!

Will.
 
willsy said:
Ignore me Hintz! You say that to raise 1ppm in a 180L I would add 1/4tsp + 1/8tsp. Couldn't be clearer!! ;)

Think I will add 1/4tsp + 1/8tsp with every EI dose 5X per week. This will take me up to the 5ppm in total...

Thanks very much!

Will.
Click to expand...

That's entirely up to you and should be in line with you setup (lights, co2 etc). I'm running 90w high powered LEDs and an extra 70w of SMD LEDs over a 150L so my tank requires heavy dosing across the board.

Depending on your setup I would start at 1-2ppm per week and see how you go from there, it is more than likely that will be plenty. I usually see symptoms somewhat relieved within 5-7 days after adding.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there is a relationship with Mg and the uptake of Fe and production of chlorophyll. Unfortunately I am not in a position to explain this as it's quite technical. There are a few references on the internet and the forum I believe.

If you want cheap MGSO4 then grab a pack of epsom salts from the chemist. About £3 for 1kg. Ensure that there is nothing added like perfume (sometimes they add lavender) or detergents etc. They must be pure salts.

A few questions though:

Where in the country are you?
What are you dosing in the way of micronutrients? Often the commercially bought liquids will have Mg in them which would make adding Mg unnecessary.
 
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