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Juwel Rio 240 - Power head placement

E

EmannAquarium

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Malta
Hi,

first post here...I have a Juwel RIO 240 which I have recently planted and equipped with pressurised CO2 with a bazouka type diffuser that atomises CO2 in the tank and 2x54W T5 tubes.

Reducing all items in the tank I calculate approx 200L of water and have a 1000L/hr pump in the internal corner filter. The outlet nozzle is at the back right and pointed (direction adjustable) to front top middle. Inlet is on the front of the internal canister at the top. So from this I am getting approx 5x flow. Attached is the setup.

In order to increase the flow, I just got an aquamedic ecodrift rated between 800-4000L/hr - this should get me to the total recommendation of 10x the volume. Almost in the third week of this setup, I did not notice any change in plant growth whatsoever.

My query is this..how best to place the power head and its direction as well as direction of nozzle outflow and position of the diffuser to optimise the flow. My current setup is diffuser below nozzle outlet and starting CO2 at 2 hrs before lights come up with quite a fast bubble rate (that I cannot manage to count) and get a green diffuser towards 4 hrs from start. Reading here I understand that the power will do the job but where to place it is my concern.

Any help appreciated especially if someone already has this type of setup.
IMG_20170128_181921433.jpg
 
Hi there ; I'm a former owner of a Juwel 300 and I can tell you this :
- the internal filter has also a low inlet on the left that you have blocked with your hardscape
- the output of the pump might be of 1000 L/h but the REAL output of the filter is half of that, at best ; Juwel has a 1500 L/h pump , see if it's compatible with your tank
- nevertheless, it's a very good idea to add a second pump ; how you should place it ? Nobody knows ; you have to test different positions in order to see all the plants swaying in the flow ; speaking of plants, I find that you have too few and from your picture it looks like they are slow growing types, so no wonder that you don't see any growth after 3 weeks

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk
 
The 1500l/HR pump is too large for my filter as I have checked with the juwel shop locally so 1000 is the largest I can go.

Did you use a power head yourself maybe you have experience you can suggest pls.

What other types of plants that are fast growing can I use...I am new here and wanted to start with a few to see how it goes.

Thanks.
 
Unfortunately with such a large tank and "tiny" filter, and despite use of powerheads, you will struggle to get proper CO2 flow and distribution.

You are really looking at filtration rate of around 2400litres/hour. The quoted x10 rate is manufacturers quoted tanks size and manufacturers quoted filter rate.

You really need something like this for flow direction and flow rate.


Also your light levels are really only just pushing medium level. You tank is 60 odd US gallons which gives about 1.7 Watts/ US gallon, so not really high level light, which may explain slow plant growth. Lower light is a good thing of course especially as your CO2 flow and distribution is "non optimal".

So you need to research ways of distributing CO2 better.

Like the fish by the way...
 
thanks ian_m...but in the case of the tank that I have and from your experience, what would be your recommendation of location for the power head and its direction as well as the direction of the filter outlet nozzle to at least make an optimisation of what I have...the power head can give me a flow rate of max 4000L/hr...cany suggestions on which setting should I go with on this one as well please.
 
The problem is the powerhead, say if you place it on the right hand side, will probably only push water about 1/2 the width of the tank before the flow dissipates. In the video you can see my powerhead on right hand side, this was more to provide CO2 water circulation underneath the powerhead, that didn't get any significant water movement from the Juwel internal filter, my spray bar or the powerhead when it was located on the left hand side. Before moving the powerhead I had a blue drop checker in this area and nice algae growing all over the plants.

Try the powerhead on the right hand side and see if you can get your drop checker, located on left side of the tank, to go green/yellow in under two hours as a first start.

Try moving the drop checker to just above the gravel, on left hand side of the tank and check it goes green/yellow in under two hours.

Basically move your drop checker around the tank and verify it is green/yellow when lights come on. Mine certainly wasn't until I got the extra power head (3200l/hr) to beef up the 1500l/hr spray bar and 600l/hr Juwel internal filter.
 
so I also have to put the power head on its maximum power which is that of 4000l/hr right? what about its position below the level of the water and in a corner pointing to the opposite corner or at the middle of the side pointing straight?....just switched on the power head and at full speed the plants are swaying quite heavily...is this ok or can these be damaged?

thanks a lot for this assistance...at least I can make a start.
 
Try on right hand side of the tank "in the shadow" of the internal filter, say 10-15 cm below water surface.

Plants won't be damaged if lightly swaying.

The issue you will have is getting the flowing water all around the tank to distribute the CO2.
 
In my case, with my RIO 300, I ended up addin g 2 external filters, the second one because the first I've bought was too small and was clogged very often : Eheim 2071 and JBL e1901; for the plants and plenty of information I would suggest a visit to the Tropica website

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to ian_m and eduard18....as you had/have a juwel aquarium...did you ever try using other filter media rather then the standard square sponges...i have read somewhere else that the lower part was filled with ceramics, wool and carbon and the upper half with coarse wool and then fine wool (pinky filter)...do you have any recommendations on this as well pls...should i really take care of the bubble count or might as well continue increasing it while monitoring the first hour to try and get the green drop checker on 1 hr and before lights on.
 
I sill use the standard Juwel sponges in my internal filter. Fine in bottom two layers and course foam on top two I also have a bag of purigen on the top and a layer of filter floss which gets rinsed weekly. Tried the 1000l/hr pump head but it squashed the sponges leading to blockage and shaft if pump wearing after only a couple of months. Putting back the many year old 600l/hr pump head and all is fine.

You really need a proper big boy filter or better filters if you are going to do high tech properly. Something like jbl e1900 with internal or two jbl e1500 would do it.

Yes you may get limited success with 600l/hr and power heads but in the end you will struggle with poor plant growth, poor co2 distribution and more than likely superb algae growth.
 
I ripped out the internal filter in my Rio 180 and replaced it with an inherited Eheim Classic 600.

Not a CO2 user but have had some fun with flow in my tank. Just wondering if you could use circulation pumps at the end and then in the middle of the tank. You might have to have a kind of V shaped flow but perhaps you could hide on with hardscape and still get enough flow to the far side of the tank?
 
tks tim for your suggestion...so the setup i left this evening is as per the attached photos...diffuser approx 15cm below surface underneath power head that is capturing the bubbles and injecting them across the tank from back left corner diagonally to front right corner...drop checker front right bottom corner and i also placed filter nozzle outlet more upwards towards the back...i can see a lot more bubbles in the tank in mostly all locations and have nice water agitation from the filter outlet sending water towards the background to be recirculated through the power head....see attached.

what do you think....throughout all this, colour of drop checker started changing however still not sure it is the required green....shall i increase more the bubble rate?
IMG_20170206_221101815.jpg
IMG_20170206_221115472.jpg
 
I think you need the outlet of your Juwel filter pointing downwards. Any surface/too much surface agitation will very quickly gas off any dissolved CO2.

When a I have accidentally gassed my fish...whoops... with a bright yellow drop checker, putting on an air pump for only a minute or so is enough to remove the CO2 for fish to recover and go in their business of wrecking my plants.....So even the slightest too much surface agitation will degas your carefully injected CO2.

You are aiming for a drop checker like this at lights on, regardless where it is placed in the tank. Or even pushing it like the second photo. Fish don't seem to mind.
upload_2017-2-7_8-53-32.png
upload_2017-2-7_8-54-28.png


Really for tank your size to get proper CO2 distribution and flow you are looking at a setup like below, with two filters. Without doing something like this you are really just "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, before the algae explosion !!".

upload_2017-2-7_8-57-31.png
 
will have a look again at the colour but definitely I am not near that and I wonder if I should increase again the flow of the CO2 in the tank.

that arrangement seems fantastic but definitely not within my reach...both for money and space required where I have the tank....looking at it will definitely be the ideal setup and I thank you to indicate such an arrangement to me...maybe in the future....

on another note however there are quite a number of planted Juwel tanks in the 180-200L region that seem to flourish with the basic filter and injected CO2...in a previous post in this thread someone advised to look at the tropica website and the juwel aquariums there are stunning....I wonder what I would need to have something ongoing like that in my living room....they all seem very simple with the internal filter and a CO2 diffuser on the opposite end.
 
EmannAquarium said:
in a previous post in this thread someone advised to look at the tropica website and the juwel aquariums there are stunning
Click to expand...
Many reasons they end up with these stunning tanks.

  • Often they are using less than 30ppm CO2, say 10ppm, so this is an "off blue" drop checker.
  • Using liquid carbon to supplement the CO2 gas and suppress algae.
  • Choosing easy grow plants.
  • Choosing hard to grow CO2 needing plants near the CO2 diffuser and easier plants away from the CO2 source.
  • Using lower light levels. This is usually the major one that can't be seen from photos.
  • Photographing with super bright lights which are not the lights the plants are growing with.
  • Removing all power heads, filters, spray bars, CO2 diffusers etc before taking the photo.
  • Cleaning algae and trimming plants daily.
Main one is probably lower light levels, means plants can get away with lower CO2 levels, poorer CO2 distribution, which how they get away with just internal filter and small CO2 diffuser.
 
ian_m said:
Many reasons they end up with these stunning tanks.

  • Often they are using less than 30ppm CO2, say 10ppm, so this is an "off blue" drop checker.
  • Using liquid carbon to supplement the CO2 gas and suppress algae.
  • Choosing easy grow plants.
  • Choosing hard to grow CO2 needing plants near the CO2 diffuser and easier plants away from the CO2 source.
  • Using lower light levels. This is usually the major one that can't be seen from photos.
  • Photographing with super bright lights which are not the lights the plants are growing with.
  • Removing all power heads, filters, spray bars, CO2 diffusers etc before taking the photo.
  • Cleaning algae and trimming plants daily.
Main one is probably lower light levels, means plants can get away with lower CO2 levels, poorer CO2 distribution, which how they get away with just internal filter and small CO2 diffuser.
Click to expand...

Actually that is not true about lighting level. Looking at the layout-81, they even doubled the stock lighting, from 2x45W to 4x45w with reflectors (Juwel 180).

https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/tropica-layout-81.38680/

By the way, I think they introduced fish late in the process.
 
Hi to All,

after two evenings, I managed to get the items and mount a spray bar as per your video in an earlier thread of this post....now I have the nozzle of the 1000l/hr pump connected to a spray bar spanning almost the entire length of the tank.

The power head is on the left hand side running at 2400l/hr at the moment (can go between 800-4000l/hr) and underneath is the CO2 diffuser...they are about 15cm from top of water. I can note the CO2 rushing and being sucked in the power head as soon as it leaves the diffuser.

The spray bar is sending water slightly away from the background and not towards the front glass...definitely I have quite some surface agitation which is puzzling me a bit...I mean I connected a spray as advised but then what about the surface agitation which should be kept to a minimum not to loose CO2...or is there a way to direct the spray bar to reduce the surface agitation...as well colour of drop checker still not the required green after almost 4hr of CO2 on - should I increase flow again....attached some new pictures...I also bought some more plants from a local store with a very helpful salesman who looked up for all the easy ones that can thrive in a low light aquarium of 0.5W/L.

How shall I proceed pls...there must be a way to nail this...or if not nail it come a bit more closer to a correct green colour .

Thanks to all
IMG_20170211_181855676.jpg
IMG_20170211_181946853_HDR.jpg
IMG_20170211_182146864.jpg
IMG_20170211_181855676.jpg
IMG_20170211_182146864.jpg
 
Hi,

another update.

After following the advise here to go with a spray bar, as attached above, I now have lowered it to avoid all the surface agitation I was getting. On googling this subject, I came across this...a recommended setup which seems to be very interesting.

So...the spray bar now I have and lowered down to create just a slight surface agitation...what I cannot notice is where is the CO2 diffuser...presumably in line...if I have to use a splitter so that I place two diffusers at the bottom on either side of the extreme of the spray bars would this be better....and what about the direction of the power head...rear left facing the front glass to simulate the water flow from the spray bar and increase flow.

Once again any help appreciated.
 
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