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Journal on my new 200L low tech with Under Gravel Filter

Hello hello.

So its been 20 days since the setup.
The aquarium plants are thriving, fish are delivering their fry.
The pH from day one to now went from 7,2 to 7,6. But it stopped there more than week ago.
So I'm quite sure it was the boulder that I place on top of my driftwood that was slowly raising the pH.
After I removed it the pH stayed at the same reading.
I did several small water changes, up to 10% a day, skipping a day here and there. Usually it was about 7-8%
The GH from day one to 10th day raised 5 or 6dGH, then I started performing those small water changes to keep it down, further I removed the stone, this is another reason to think that it was also responsible for raising my pH and my KH, more on that later.

I removed the stone o May 27th, but I was doing some water changes since May 23rd, but the GH kept raising by the next day. With the stone in I managed to reduce it to 13dGH, but it raised shortly after.
After I removed the stone the readings were more consistent

The KH raised from 3dKH to a weak 5dKH after I put the stone into the aquarium on May 16th, so it stayed there for eleven days.

Why I say a weak 5dKH? Because the test didn't become a strong yellow after the fifth drop, but it was yellow nonetheless.

Recently I ask for help identifying a crypto of mine, and it was said it could be a C. Balansae
I've grown it a few times, I don't remember the leaf edges being so crenate, or the leaves being that long. But then I grew it low-energy without CO2, and like @ElleDee mentions above, crypts have a great deal of phenotypic plasticity when it comes to leaf morphology, responding to different environmental conditions. So I could be wrong. It does look more like C. balansae though.
And
My guess would be for 99% Balansae

So I went to my lfs and bought a tissue grow of a Cryptocoryne Crispatula var. balansae. To check if my previous crypto was the same. So I planted it in my tank to see what it turns out.

Ado. (Yet I'm a beginner on identifying aquarium plants.
One part of me thinks "Cryptocoryne Balansae and Cryptocoryne Crispatula var. balansae are the same plant"
But other part of me thinks they could be different species therefore I would have two types balansae? Is that so? Or I'm just tripping?
They are different, the leaves in the newer one was way more crenate than my previous one when I first bought it. So that could be a Cryptocoryne Spiralis, as I found it on sale on the same fish store that I bought it back then.
But, when I bought my first crypto, I didn't buy I tissue growth, I bought it already in the the submerged form.
But the store owner told me that he has the C. Spiralis in vitro and submerged grown. I didn't asked about the C. balansae, shame on me.)

I also added a small portion of C. wendtii "Green Gecko"
IMG_20240601_122504.jpg

and my first buce: Bucephalandra Brownie Ghost:
IMG_20240601_122509.jpg
Yep, they are really small.

I payed R$38,00 for each Cryptocoryne (tissue growth) and R$65,00 for the buce (it came two small portion, but the second I planted behind the driftwood in a shaded area with more water flow.

I don't have any pictures of the C. crispatula var. balansae.

On May 30th, the plants were quite overgrown.
IMG_20240530_181802.jpg
The Limnophila sessiflora, grew quite large very quickly, and send side shoots in many stems (in the previous tank it didn't happen as much as it happened in this one)
The floating plants took over the surface in no time, the new plants had shorter roots, which I think was because they came from an outside bucket with almost no plant food to an aquarium rich in plant food and ferts (DIY KCl and Seashem Flourish)
So I decided to squip the fertilization this week
After the trimmings it got like this:
IMG_20240530_190859.jpg
(First trimmings, May 30th)

But It has already overgrown.
This is the picture of my tank now:
IMG_20240603_083829.jpg
The L. Sessiflora really liked there, and it is starting to take shape.

But there are something going off in this tank.
Since it was a rushed setup for a emergency, I didn't had the time to wait few weeks to put the fish in.
I never had a problem with ammonia before neither did I have this time, but cycling a tank it's not just about nitrifying bacteria.
There are other things too, which I'm not well informed.

The ammonia reading was 0. I don't have access to nitrates or nitrites test kits, so it could be off.
But I can read my fish
Their gills seem fine, but I think that there is a parasite on the gills of some of my fish, because a group of them is gasping near the surface, and some are scratching themselves against the plants, specially the Echinodorus grisebachii, which has harder and rougher leaves.

I noticed also some bumps and swollen areas underneath the skin of some fish, I have read it may be some sort of virus, Lymphocystis, but I'm not sure. They are eating ok.
But I also noticed small reddish spots, like a irregular cell growth inside their bodies, two of my fish had shown this symptoms.
I didn't manage to take a picture.

One fish died, it got some swollen bits deteriorated quite fast, 4 days from the first symptoms to the death.
I read if it is Lymphocystis there is no much we can do, because the virus is already in the water and other fish may be carriers that show no symptom, so there is no reason to remove the assymptomatic ones.

My guess is that I put some contaminated stuff into my tank, through the plants or a assymptomatic fish. I think the first can be right, because I got some trimmings from a friend of mine few days ago, that I didn't quarantine, nor bathed them with potassium permanganate.
I think I may have learnt a lesson...

Either way I would be better off if I had the time to wait every thing to take it's course and develop less rushy.
But at the end of the day it is all about learning and taking notes to not rush things up, taking the time and being a little bit more careful...

Cheers
Jonni
 
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Hello fellows.

So today I decided to check the power head that runs my UGF.

I wanted to check if it had any buildup, as in my other tanks with internal filter, they tend to have a buildup in their spinning wheel and around it. It get covered with a slime stuff, that I believe is biofilm.

So I took the power head out and check it thoroughly.
But I find almost nothing in there, it was pretty clean.
Yet, I think it is not up for commemoration, because I think that there are two things that I that I must pay attention to:

First: the geo fabric may be doing a really good job at preventing mulm and other stuff going through the uplift tube...

Second: the geo fabric may be doing a bad job by preventing some mulm going through the uplift tube and it may become clogged, not the tube, but the geo fabric over the plates...

The water looks pristine, cristal clear with light tea colour. But for how long?

IMG_20240608_193232.jpg
As you can see, it looks pretty clean.

IMG_20240608_193343.jpg
The impeller also looks very clean. That bit near the top of the impeller isn't rust, it looked like a colony of some sort of brown bacteria. It was over the whitish rubber thing, but I scrapped it off just by holding it.

There is a little bit of algae on the outside of the power head.
IMG_20240608_193440.jpg
It can be seen right on the label, I don't think it is bad to have algae, they seem under control, so I didn't get concerned about it.

So I think for today it is about it.
Now I will only check the power head in three months time, to see how it develops.

Cheers
Jonni
 
Hello hello...

Today I wanna share my reds.
Not all of them, but one specifically.

My Limnophila sessiflora are looking really gorgeous:
IMG_20240612_203039.jpg

Hope you all are doing just as good as my plant. 😌

Cheers
Jonni
 
So, it seems I have ran into problems...
I think that there are two things that I that I must pay attention to:

First: the geo fabric may be doing a really good job at preventing mulm and other stuff going through the uplift tube...

Second: the geo fabric may be doing a bad job by preventing some mulm going through the uplift tube and it may become clogged, not the tube, but the geo fabric over the plates...
The second guess was what was happening.
Why I say that?

The flow decreased quite a lot since I set it up. When I turned the air tube to inject more air into the tank it wasn't working, it wasn't bubbling hehe. But when I took the power head out of the uplift tube it cranked up right on the spot.

As a man, I decided to take the matters on my hand... actually I took the Dremmel on my hands...
IMG_20240612_222315.jpg
I used 2mm drill bits to make a few holes (5 of them) at the base of the uplift tube.
They weren't pretty, and I know it will hinder the full potential of my UGF, shame on me...

But not on you dear reader. You can do better, don't lose faith, don't let your heart faint! Don't be discouraged 😌. May the Under Gravel Force be with you!

IMG_20240612_231928.jpg
(Three out of five holes)

About the plates, as I have mentioned on another thread, I became aware that the plate slots were too small, but I won't tear my tank apart just to fix it.

The slots were really tiny and clogged easily.
Have just set up my aquarium with the more open undergravel plates which I'd kept (attics are great !)
I feel you brother, that's really something to look out for..

Now I'm concerned: my plates have tiny slots, covered with a geo fabric:
View attachment 219928
Each slot is 20 mm x 1 mm (3/4 of a inch by 1/32 of an inch - I have no idea if I read it right)


My power head has a turnover of 600L/h, divided by two uplifts. The ration for the aquarium total volume is about 3 times, but the water volume above the substrate is about 120L so the ratio of turnover is around 5x. Of course there is resistance from the substrate the geo fabric etc

Yeah, I guess I was right, the geo fabric did have a role clogging the system, and also the tiny slots.

So I ran into the same problem as @Polly.

What about you?
Use proper plates, with wider slots, and maybe a easier to flow through geo fabric...

As for me, I still have some faith that my UGF will work somehow, if not, I have a fancy unintended partial plenum tank (whatever it means, I have to study more on plenums now).

As far as I have studied about nitrifying bacteria, they may be doing just fine with a reduced flow of water, they may not be at their fullest, but they will still be doing something. I just can't remember were I have read about it...

Cheers
Jonni
 
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Hello hello

The trouble keeps going...
Well, there is almost no trouble.

My quick fix didn't make it, or maybe it did.
I woke up this morning to check if it was running ok, as last night after I bore the holes.

But it wasn't...
The snails are unforgiving
IMG_20240613_082008.jpg
I know they are pretending to be trouble makers, they are more like trouble ceasers.

Maybe I will have to fix the UGF...
I forgot that snails liked those kind of spots where debris may concentrate....


Cheer
Jonni
 
Hello.

Well, I had to take action once again.
Since the small holes at the base of my power lift tube didn't work, I decided to run the UGF with reverse flow as suggested by @Maf 2500, in: Help needed. Miss calculation on Under Gravel Filter

I didn't had a smaller power head though.
So I divided the actual one in two (the one I have has two water exiting tubes, one I added a small tube to point upwards, and another I attached a hose to direct the flow into the UGF uplift tube (I think it is downlift tube now 😅)

IMG_20240616_111312.jpg

I don't want to much of a sharp flow.

@Tim Harrison suggested to attach the UGF to a cannister, but for me it is out of question, because here in Brazil it is expensive (at least for me: by now it costs a little bit more than a third of my paycheck - the cheapest one), and I was worried it could be noisy, I couldn't find much info about it.

Another thing is to tear it apart, I think it is doable, but quite disturbing thing to do to an aquarium.

I have ordered craft mesh screen and my plan is:

Remove the livestock;
Remove the plants that are over the area were I put the plates;
Drain the aquarium;
Dig the plates area;
Remove the geo fabric;
Cut bigger holes in the plates;
Hot glue the craft mesh to cover the bigger holes;
Put everything back into place;
Fill it up;
Run the filter for half a hour;
Reintroduce the livestock.

Surely I will test before hand if the craft mesh will hold the weight beforehand.
I think about boring the holes on the plates with the following sizes (5 cm x 5 cm) in various parts and patch it with the craft mesh.
I think it will be easier than to change the plates, because I don't wanna mess with the pipes that are already connected to the plates, to do so I would have to tear everything apart.

But if you tell me:
Jonni, you don't have to worry about UGF flow rate, nor about water column movement in a heavily planted aquarium, I will listen to you.
I really don't wanna to tear it apart, nor do the maintenance, I will only do it because I'm not sure if I can rule it out, because I really want to have a UGF and test it.
Also I don't wanna my fish scared of water flow rate, they seem quite relaxed with the almost no flow, but again, I don't know if it is safe in the long run...

Cheers
Jonni
 
Hello hello.

I'm still waiting for the supplies that I ordered from China to arrive, then I will fix the UGF, at least I think so...

Meanwhile, I have decided to remove my favourite plant from the escape. The Limnophila sessiflora was growing like crazy, I was trimming it every five days. As soon as it touched the water surface I trimmed about 10cm.
It was veracious. It looked really beautiful, but I couldn't keep up with the maintenance 🥲.

I have bought some new fancy plants to replace it at my LFS.

I thought "well, all the plants are doing really well, the weed soil must be working really good, so I will try the yellow marked ones" here in Brazil we have a plant supplier that mark his plants in colour grades "green = easy; yellow = moderate; red = hard".

I already had some yellow ones with some success, so I bought two marked as moderate and one as hard.

The plants I bought are:
Helianthiun tenellun 'red' - this one I think will stay green, because my lights aren't that strong, yellow marked
Cryptocoryne beckettii - also yellow marked, I thought every crypts were easy...
Pogostemon helferi - red marked, I think this one was mismarked though...

Also bought two new Bucephalandras:
Brownie phoenix and Kit Royale.

To replace the space that the Limnophila sessiflora was taking, I planted some Hygrophila corymbosa.

I noticed that my aquarium was lacking some potassium, I saw some black holes in the Hygrophila corymbosa, that was kind of hidden before I moved it. So I decided to add 22 ppm of potassium once a week, and then decrease if necessary.

The picture below was taken in the day I removed the Limnophila sessiflora.
IMG_20240622_085640.jpg

Now the tank has new plants in L. Sessiflora place, but I don't have pictures yet.

I still don't have algae issues. So, for now it is a win.
The tank is running with reverse flow through the UGF, and the water is not as crystal clear as it was, but it's pretty decent.

As for growing nice plants I think the article that Tim Harrison wrote about the hybrid tech approach is something to consider:

Cheers
Jonni
 
Hello hello.

Today I came here to share some news on my aquarium

I think I have fixed the UGF.
I had a old power head laying around, so I fixed it (cleaned and painted it to be black again, it was a really old one) it was labelled as 950L/h. It runs like there is nothing to hinder it.
Looks like the gravel is completely clean.
So I didn't have to dig etc etc.

But I have a thought on this.
I was running the UGF in reverse for quite a while now, and I think that it got pretty clean.

This power head is different from the previous one, it is stronger and it has no side exits, only one. Since it is quite old, it is also a little bit noisy, but I think I can put a new impeller in it.

So I'm glad I have it back running and I didn't have to dig it all up. To fix the plates.

Another thing that I am considering, is if it comes to clog again, I will run it in reverse, add a internal filter and turn both on at the same time, to clean any mess it can make. Along with a lot of floating plants.

Now I just have to find a new nozzle to diffuse the flow, I don't like it too sharp.

In the next post I will post another picture of the aquarium and some more details.

Thanks for the help with it.
I hope it stays running nicely.

Cheers
Jonni
 
Hello hello.

It's been a while since my last update. Hehe.
Nothing much going on actually.

The aquarium is running nicely, I haven't performed any water changes since last update, but I have tested the water now and then to see if everything was on its track.

The fish are spawning like crazy, I have noticed that with this setup I have more platies and molies that are darker in colour. The white frys aren't making it, as they were compared to my previous setup (which was light in colour).
I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with weak genetics or whatsoever. I believe it is mainly because it's easier for the fish to spot the clearer ones and hunt them down when compared to their darker counterparts.

IMG_20240817_152930.jpg
Pardon the glare, I would like to share you a broad view, but it's daytime here.

I'm having a really nice experience with the "weed soil". The plants are thriving, I never used aquasoil before to compare with, but the growth is amazing.

My Sagittaria graminea is yellowing now, but I think it's because it is preparing to send runners, I have noticed it in previous setups. But I would appreciate if any of you have more information about it, I may be totally wrong about it haha.
IMG_20240817_164905.jpg
(S. graminea melt)

IMG_20240817_152945.jpg
My Echinodurus gabrielli (I think it is this one) are shooting leaves that are reddish in colour, which fades a little bit as the leaves mature, but it leaves a nice pattern afterwards. It wasn't like this before.

IMG_20240817_164922.jpgIMG_20240817_164918.jpg
I find a really funny way to use the Suswassertang (Lomariopsis lineata) which is tied to drift wood and other hardscape). I also attached java fern along with it. But it seems I don't have the java hand...

My Bucephalandras aren't doing that great. The fishes have eaten one up, and the other two are slowly going into shape.
IMG_20240817_165004.jpgIMG_20240817_165007.jpg

The Hygrophila rosenevirg is turning quite pink on its top leaves.IMG_20240817_153024.jpg
(If you look carefully enough you will see me haha)

Sagittaria subulata is taking over, but still manageable.
Helianthiun tenellun 'red', just disappeared under the Hygrophila corymbosa and Echinodurus gabrielli, but it is doing great nonetheless.

Rotala rotundifolia are growing nicely too

The cryptocorine are taking their time.
Bacopa needed a heavy haircut, now it is quite shy in the back.
There are few species that I didn't mentioned, either because I forgot it's name, or forgot about them altogether.

Cheers
Jonni
 
Now, about the algae...

I have had a little bit of green hair algae, but I spot treat it with hydrogen peroxide, but It was on the Lomariopsis lineata (Sußwassertang), and it also melted a little bit, then I left it alone.

Few days past and it was gone, maybe it died for the treatment, maybe it became weak by the treatment and the fish ate it, maybe the SAE eat it, since I did have my fish to fast for few days.
I also introduced around 200 neocaridina shrimp;
And one weirdo that came along (see picture below)
IMG_20240817_164940.jpg
This fellow is quite huge, 5 cm (around 2 inches) or so.

There is also some green algae growing on the glass but it is only visible when viewed from the side:
IMG_20240817_165049.jpg
IMG_20240817_165033.jpg
I don't think this as a problem, it's part of the ecosystem that's developing in the aquarium. The nerites are eating it, maybe I need more nerites though...

Cheers
Jonni
 
Hi all,
Now, about the algae...

I have had a little bit of green hair algae, but I spot treat it with hydrogen peroxide, but It was on the Lomariopsis lineata (Sußwassertang), and it also melted a little bit, then I left it alone.

Few days past and it was gone, maybe it died for the treatment
You should get a similar response from both Lomariopsis and green algae, neither has an epidermis, and a strong oxidising agent like H2O2 will be equally deadly for both of them.
It's been a while since my last update. Hehe.
Nothing much going on actually.
Always a good sign.
The aquarium is running nicely, I haven't performed any water changes since last update, but I have tested the water now and then to see if everything was on its track.
Personally I would change some water, I'm not a great believer in making decisions based on water test results. If the tank didn't need a water change, and you change some water? You haven't lost anything. I just don't see any advantages to not changing some water.

Cheers Darrel
 
Personally I would change some water, I'm not a great believer in making decisions based on water test results. If the tank didn't need a water change, and you change some water? You haven't lost anything. I just don't see any advantages to not changing some water.
I agree Darrel, but I did have some issues with my tap water over the past few years, at first it was ok, but then they added fluorides and maybe another stuff, but I don't know how harmful it may be...

Do you know if fluorides are somehow harmful to fish?
I haven't read it thoroughly, I don't know by how much it would be if it is...

My tap water comes with a concentration of 0.8ppm (average of the last 30 results) of fluorides.
Also, there are some aluminium in the tap water too, 0.1ppm (average of last 30 results)
The site says it is update daily, but who knows? The results are always the same, which I find at least odd.

Since I had so much headache with water changes using my tap water so I decided to skip some here and there and just do when I see something off then I go a buy RODI water (aren't cheap, but not insanely expensive too).

Other option I have is to collect rain water, but I turned my barrels into garden ponds haha.

Cheers
Jonni
 
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Hi all,
I'd just go back to making regular small volume water changes, I'm pretty sure it is the lesser of two evils.
but then they added fluorides
My tap water comes with a concentration of 0.8ppm (average of the last 30 results) of fluorides.
It shouldn't be a problem, fluorides occur naturally in hard water, but are added to soft water to protect <"against tooth decay">.
.... PHE estimated that if all 5-year-olds in England drinking water with 0.2mg/l of fluoride instead received fluoridated water of at least 0.7mg/l then the number experiencing decay would fall by 17% in the least deprived areas, rising to 28% in the most deprived areas. At the same time, the number of estimated hospital admissions for tooth extractions due to decay would reduce by 45% to 68%.
Also, there are some aluminium in the tap water too, 0.1ppm (average of last 30 results)
Again nothing to worry about, <"tropical laterite soils"> are mainly comprised of aluminium (Al) and iron (Fe) oxides and hydroxides. These are the scarcely soluble residue of millions of years weathering, but very small amounts will become soluble.
Other option I have is to collect rain water,
I'm a rainwater user <"If it's yellow, let it mellow and RO is the devil">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
Then I was interpreting this one wrongly
Not necessarily, none of the quoted values are as low as the value in your water ("ppm" and "mg / L" are ~equivalents ), but they are are mainly LC50 values, so it doesn't totally preclude sub-lethal damage at lower levels.

This is from <"Health and Care Bill: water fluoridation">
In some parts of England the level of fluoride in the public water supply already reaches the target concentration of water fluoridation schemes (one milligram per litre (1mg/l)), sometimes expressed as one part per million (1ppm)), as a result of the geology of the area..........
That is one of the problems with toxicology, sub-lethal effects <"are difficult to quantify">.
The water here is very soft. KH and GH around 2 degrees.
Soft water is a great starting point, it is much easier to add things to water than to try and take them away. I'd make sure <"you have some humic compounds">, they look to be <"important for animal health"> in soft water.
Question: does the GH and KH deplete over time if I don't perform WC?
It will. The depletion of carbonates, during nitrification, (dKH) is called "old tank syndrome" and it was quite common before people appreciated <"how important water changes were">.

Calcium (Ca) and <"magnesium (Mg)"> will deplete as they are incorporated into organisms, I actually use the state of the Ramshorn snail (Planorbella duryi) as a measure of <"when to add CacO3"> (in my case <"via tap water">).

cheers Darrel
 
Hey yo.

Soft water is a great starting point, it is much easier to add things to water than to try and take them away. I'd make sure <"you have some humic compounds">, they look to be <"important for animal health"> in soft water.
I usually gather leaves from my garden, of course I ditch the citrus leaves, I have a few species of citrus, but for some reason I don't use it.
But I use a lot of mulberry leaves, dry and fresh, the shrimp and snails seems to like them.
And there the general leaves, from other trees, like Mango, other tree that it's called that a literal translation would be "Brazilian cherry tree".

I also have free access to the so "special" - "Indian almond leaves". (To be fair, I think almost any leave would work just fine, I just avoid the ones I know to be harmful, or the ones that have a strong smell, like eucalyptus...

I noted that the humic compound washes off too, not by carbon filtration, because I just have sponge filters and under gravel filtration on my tanks.

It will. The depletion of carbonates, during nitrification, (dKH) is called "old tank syndrome" and it was quite common before people appreciated <"how important water changes were">.
I'm aware of this old tank syndrome,
I may not do regular WC, but I do some haha, but I will gonna check this out. 6L every 2 - 3 days won't be a pain to perform. It's not much, but at the end of the week it will make for around 10% to 15% water change weekly...

Calcium (Ca) and <"magnesium (Mg)"> will deplete as they are incorporated into organisms, I actually use the state of the Ramshorn snail (Planorbella duryi) as a measure of <"when to add CacO3"> (in my case <"via tap water">).
I also do my "readings" on calcium with ramshorn and other snails that are around. I usually add crushed egg shells.
I also have used some shrimp salt, to add minerals, this stuff is really cheap around here, it doesn't say what comes inside, but I'm almost 100% it is calcium and magnesium...

I'm gonna have a reading on the links you shared.
Thanks for the elucidation on the ppm and grams thing.

Thanks
Jonni
 
Hi all,
Brazilian cherry tree
That one should be all right, assuming it is Eugenia brasiliensis? It would be pretty close to Guava (Psidium spp.) and I've used P. cattleyanum leaves without any problem.
I also do my "readings" on calcium with ramshorn and other snails that are around. I usually add crushed egg shells.
I really like snails as tank janitors, so I'm willing to harden the water up a little bit to keep them happy.

cheers Darrel
 
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