I would ideally like to use a filter on a timer for certain periods of the day to avoid pump noise. Conventional wisdom says this is no-no on account of die-off of oxygen deprived bacteria when the pump isn't running. Any evidence this is indeed the case, I'm sceptical? I am thinking of running the pump for say 6 hrs a day. Tank is 240 litres full of plants and smaller tetras and deep aquasoil.
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Is timed filtration really a no-no?
- Thread starter Malarky
- Start date
Bradders
Member
Your whole environment is a place for the colonisation of bacteria to help keep things healthy - plants, substrate and filters all contribute to this. So, technically, you can run without a filter with closer care and attention. However, it is very much good to have water flow and some mechanical filtration which filters do very well - they act as a positive adjunct to the whole ecosystem.
The risk with turning off a filter sits in closed/sealed units like canister filters. Literally, as the water stops flowing the oxygen will not get to the bacteria and it will die. Conversely, if your filter is not a sealed system then the air exposure and being kept moist will mean the bacteria can live quite happily for a very long time - assuming it's well established/mature of course. There have been people on this forum who had a filter failure over a weekend and came back to the stench of dead bacteria, so it is a true risk in a sealed system. Of course, the bacteria in the oxygen-accessible areas of the aquarium would remain just fine so life continues (assuming the aquarium is mature) and the filter will need to 're-populate' once cleaned and bought back into usage.
The risk with turning off a filter sits in closed/sealed units like canister filters. Literally, as the water stops flowing the oxygen will not get to the bacteria and it will die. Conversely, if your filter is not a sealed system then the air exposure and being kept moist will mean the bacteria can live quite happily for a very long time - assuming it's well established/mature of course. There have been people on this forum who had a filter failure over a weekend and came back to the stench of dead bacteria, so it is a true risk in a sealed system. Of course, the bacteria in the oxygen-accessible areas of the aquarium would remain just fine so life continues (assuming the aquarium is mature) and the filter will need to 're-populate' once cleaned and bought back into usage.
I doubt that would work unless you had it attached to a second system running in another location or something. You could build a soundproofed sump or get an oversized dc pump and run it really slowly. Or build a box around a canister. The cheapest form of soundproofing is 2 layers of plasterboard overlapping the joints. If you made a plywood box with 2 overlapping layers of plasterboard and mass loaded vinyl lining it you could probably make it pretty much silent. Or run the filter in a cupboard or another room and insulate the pipes.
This is one off the problems with 240V AC Pumps/motors in the hobby, two speeds on and off. Marine tanks tend to use 24vdc motors on a 0-10v rail so they there rpms can be varied by any controller that controls the 0-10v input.- so easy to fit any controller to them.
Our filter do two jobs in our tanks.
1. Filter mechanical and biological and the biological needs to be running 24/7. a few short shops for short periods is fine - shorter the better.
2. Provide flow/water movement in the tank, which for high tech tanks needs to be good esp during the photoperiod. One the lights go off the flow isn't so important, as the need to get the CO2 to the plants quickly goes as the plants need for CO2 diminishes.
Also the need for biological filtration by the filter diminishes as the the tank gets established as the main area it takes place is in the media/substrate/plant roots as this far exceeds the surface area in the filter.
So having a smallish 'quiet' filter on 24/7 to aid the filtration IMO is all that's needed - if you have another system esp in a high tec setup to take care of the tank flow ie powerhead/gyre with controller you can have good flow for photoperiod and much lower flow for non photoperiod.
Plus with powerhead/gyre with controller you can have it scheduled to be off for a few hours a night to allow the clean up crew to do their job.
So, there is a solution but not cheap. The filter that takes care off the filtration and the flow is the cheap way to take care of filtration and flow but has its limitations IMO
Our filter do two jobs in our tanks.
1. Filter mechanical and biological and the biological needs to be running 24/7. a few short shops for short periods is fine - shorter the better.
2. Provide flow/water movement in the tank, which for high tech tanks needs to be good esp during the photoperiod. One the lights go off the flow isn't so important, as the need to get the CO2 to the plants quickly goes as the plants need for CO2 diminishes.
Also the need for biological filtration by the filter diminishes as the the tank gets established as the main area it takes place is in the media/substrate/plant roots as this far exceeds the surface area in the filter.
So having a smallish 'quiet' filter on 24/7 to aid the filtration IMO is all that's needed - if you have another system esp in a high tec setup to take care of the tank flow ie powerhead/gyre with controller you can have good flow for photoperiod and much lower flow for non photoperiod.
Plus with powerhead/gyre with controller you can have it scheduled to be off for a few hours a night to allow the clean up crew to do their job.
So, there is a solution but not cheap. The filter that takes care off the filtration and the flow is the cheap way to take care of filtration and flow but has its limitations IMO
prdad
Member
I had one of these left over from a reef tank. Vectra - M1 & L1 Return Pump. Its controlled by an app with a timer that you can set flow rates in. Mostly I have it at 25% with 1 hour at 100% to stir things up a bit. You could set it at 10% and it would be silent in my tank.
Fitting pump prefilter and removing the impeller from the filter would give variable flow rates and could be a great solution to the noise off the filter esp if the quiet period is when lights are off.
I had my filters on a timer, at one time. This was to have silence from the tank in the lounge from 7pm to 10pm, whilst making use of the room. Worked well, silence whilst watching tv. Was also useful to indicate it was starting to get late when the pumps come on.
However once or twice, despite power being applied, the Juwel 600l pump head just failed to spin. Cycling the power again or just tapping the pump head and it started. Probably dirt in impeller cavity or worn impeller, but after having noticing it once or twice, the next morning when feeding fish, I abandoned the timer.
I also made sure my external filter was on a piece of carpet on a rubber sheet, the filter pipes not touching the wall behind the tank or the tank (use pipe insulation pieces for that) and external filter was acceptably quiet for TV watching.
However once or twice, despite power being applied, the Juwel 600l pump head just failed to spin. Cycling the power again or just tapping the pump head and it started. Probably dirt in impeller cavity or worn impeller, but after having noticing it once or twice, the next morning when feeding fish, I abandoned the timer.
I also made sure my external filter was on a piece of carpet on a rubber sheet, the filter pipes not touching the wall behind the tank or the tank (use pipe insulation pieces for that) and external filter was acceptably quiet for TV watching.
PARAGUAY
Member
Soundproofing material as used on terraced houses between each property were its single brick dividing, it's like a thin rock wool, l seen it used to soundproof ceilings in public houses,restraunts and the like were living quarters at above. Problem though space in your average tank cabinet is limited
I imagine that if you were to run the filter only a few hours a day, instead of the daily die-off of bacteria that we may be tempted to predict, what would happen would be the usual microbial colony in the filter just not growing, at least not the microbes that require constant oxygen supply. Without having a strong standard microbial colony in the filter, given the demand for processing ammonia and everything else in the tank, there would be microbes developing elsewhere. It then becomes a case of seeing if there is enough "room" for all the microbes you need around the tank, given that they would grow in less ideal locations. The filter provides constant and strong flow through the media, which sounds very optimized. In the tank, not so much.
And what would happen with the filter? The way I see it, a microbial colony would form, one that is best adapted to live 18 hours a day without flow and 6 hours with flow. And the mechanical filtration would hold dirt and this dirt would stay exposed to hours in an oxygen starved environment, so it may be degraded differently.
Things would eventually reach an equilibrium, as long as you keep the routine constant. If it is a good equilibrium, that is beyond me. It is very possible that algae become a strong player in this new equilibrium, who knows...
And what would happen with the filter? The way I see it, a microbial colony would form, one that is best adapted to live 18 hours a day without flow and 6 hours with flow. And the mechanical filtration would hold dirt and this dirt would stay exposed to hours in an oxygen starved environment, so it may be degraded differently.
Things would eventually reach an equilibrium, as long as you keep the routine constant. If it is a good equilibrium, that is beyond me. It is very possible that algae become a strong player in this new equilibrium, who knows...
Bradders
Member
Very interested to here you expand on this so i can understand.
PARAGUAY
Member
Amazon do soundproofing acoustic tiles,think similar to carpet tiles as a comparison self adhesive so would be ideal for average cabinet, also acoustic sponge that rolls out too, maybe worth a try instead of switching filter off
FrozenShivers
Member
I'd look at ways of managing the sound, through careful filter selection, there is also various methods that can be used top help suppress the sound of a filter, most of it is due to vibrations travelling from the filter through the cabinet. I cut out foam and sit my filters on it to reduced vibration through the cabinet. I recently managed to reduced a lot of humming from one of my filters by putting some cloth between the cabinet and a part of my hose that was making direct contact with the cabinet, I didn't realise how much vibration was transferring through and adding to the humming noise. As mentioned by others there is also different materials that can be used in cabinets to help reduced noise - this is now something I have experimented with yet but may very well try!
