Is this survivable?

[Myrtle]

This evening I found one of my sparkling gouramis with what appears to be a bite taken out of her face. If it's a body rot type thing it's progressed really fast so I'm inclined to think s/he's a victim of conspecific aggression. Sadly, my other females didn't last more than a couple of days so it's been what I think is 2m 1F for a few months as I couldn't get any more. I was worried something like this would happen I've moved him/her to the shrimp tank and given a dose of Esha 2000 but I'm not sure whether it's crueller to try to heal her... I've included the best pics I could get but they're still pants.
You can see the width on this image

And how deep it is on this one

Her mouth and eyes are undamaged otherwise it would have been an easier decision... Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Myrtle]

The answer is no, she passed overnight

 

[Simmo]

Think I would have done the same and tried.

 

[Myrtle]

Thanks, sometimes it's a hard call and I hate to feel like I didn't at least try.

 

[FrozenShivers]

Thanks, sometimes it's a hard call and I hate to feel like I didn't at least try.

Sometimes that's all we can do, sorry your Sparkling Gourami didn't make it. Beautiful fish, seen them at LFS and would love to have some one day.

 

[Big G]

Very sorry she didn't make it M.

You did your very best .

Kind regards

Bg

 

[louis_last]

Sorry to hear about the fish. It's hard to imagine this damage was done directly by another sprakling gourami though. Is it possible there's something sharp in the aquarium that she rammed into when she was being pursued by a male? I've started sanding down lava rock before I use it in my badis tanks after I had a couple of females get scratches from males chasing them into tight corners. Anecdotally I've found that rooibos tea can help with recovery.

 

[FISHnLAB]

I would have tried my best to try and save her too but, sometimes it's just not possible. Sorry for your loss Myrtle👊.

I have thankfully yet to loose a fish since I started the hobby 7.5 months ago. I don't look forward to my first😔. In preparation, I have started to amass a war chest of medications so I can quickly take action in case of a problem. I have been thinking of starting a thread about a list of best medications to keep on hand...

 

[MichaelJ]

I have been thinking of starting a thread about a list of best medications to keep on hand...

Such a thread would be good idea @FISHnLAB ... Personally, the only remedy I have on standby is a ~5 Gallon tank (20L) with a PatMini internal filter and a heater that I can setup in couple of hours as a hospital tank if I need to. Water and plenty of floating plants I can harvest from my main tanks. Other than that, I am pretty blank on what type(s) of medication to have available.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Myrtle]

I believe that many of the medications are little more than placebo by proxy, but I'm no fish pharmacist! The fact that actually diagnosing the type of infection/bacteria present is next to impossible without a lab means that it's pot luck as to whether it gets better or not. Injuries are one thing, but bacterial infections etc are much harder.

 

[MichaelJ]

I believe that many of the medications are little more than placebo by proxy, but I'm no fish pharmacist! The fact that actually diagnosing the type of infection/bacteria present is next to impossible without a lab means that it's pot luck as to whether it gets better or not. Injuries are one thing, but bacterial infections etc are much harder.

I tend to agree. It's one of the reasons I historically have rarely (less than a handful of times) used medications in my tanks - currently I do not have any medication available. To me, isolation was always the first step if practical. Second step was to wait it out. But I am definitely interested in understanding this topic better and hearing from people who have had success with medication in their tanks.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[FISHnLAB]

Such a thread would be good idea @FISHnLAB ... Personally, the only remedy I have on standby is a ~5 Gallon tank (20L) with a PatMini internal filter and a heater that I can setup in couple of hours as a hospital tank if I need to. Water and plenty of floating plants I can harvest from my main tanks. Other than that, I am pretty blank on what type(s) of medication to have available.

Cheers,
Michael

Yes, I think it may be a good discussion. Although one must keep in mind many medications require a prescription in some countries(not yours thankfully though Michael😉). That said a prescription and/or the medications can be obtained fairly easily albeit sometimes at a high price(as with most things in the veterinary industry).

I too have a 5 gallon pail quarantine setup that I also use for water changes. It has a heater, spounge filter, & pond pump.

As for medications to have on hand, I guess a good place to start is having one of each type that targets the most common fish illnesses as well as some aquarium salt which can be used for many things. Companies like Fritz and Seachem make a range of medications with actual medical grade ingredients(not holistic).

 

[FISHnLAB]

I believe that many of the medications are little more than placebo by proxy, but I'm no fish pharmacist! The fact that actually diagnosing the type of infection/bacteria present is next to impossible without a lab means that it's pot luck as to whether it gets better or not. Injuries are one thing, but bacterial infections etc are much harder.

There are plenty of medications that cover a range of different injuries and bacterial infections. I'm talking real human grade medications not holistic crap(although some of it works well like No or Zero Planaria for instance) the problem is you need a prescription for them in many countries. Many can be used in combination with others as well to cover the most possible causes and are quite effective from what a read. If one has access to them it seam silly not to at least try no matter then chance imo anyway no?

 

[FISHnLAB]

To me isolation was always the first step if practical.

This should always be the first step even with use of medications imo. Might as well limit any possible contagions and no point in dosing anyone not affected right.

Second step was to wait it out. But I am definitely interested in understanding this topic better and hearing from people who have had success with medication in their tanks.

Me too. I'll be busy for the night here but, maybe tomorrow morning I'll start a thread on the topic👍.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Myrtle]

There are plenty of medications that cover a range of different injuries and bacterial infections. I'm talking real human grade medications not holistic crap(although some of it works well like No or Zero Planaria for instance) the problem is you need a prescription for them in many countries. Many can be used in combination with others as well to cover the most possible causes and are quite effective from what a read. If one has access to them it seam silly not to at least try no matter then chance imo anyway no?

In the UK we're unable to access most medications without a veterinary prescription.

 

[FISHnLAB]

In the UK we're unable to access most medications without a veterinary prescription.

Yep, we have the same terrible policy, responsible for the deaths of many Aquarist's friends, here too although they don't seam to enforce the laws much as some meds can be easily found. There is also online vets who will treat and prescribe over a video call but, there is often a consultation fee.

The bottom line is you have to pay to play as with most things in life. Unfortunately due to our government's bad policies we have to pay more then others but, the meds can still be acquired at least...

 

[FISHnLAB]

My war chest so far includes...

Fluval Aquarium Salt
Seachem StressGuard(Methylene Blue and Glut apparently)
Fritz Maracyn(Erythromycin)
Fritz ParaCleanse(Metronidazole and Praziquantel)
Merek Panacur(Fenbendazole)

I still need to get something for Ick and maybe another antiparasitic(I hear the infamous Hydroxychloroquine works great but, may be hard to find now due to more ridiculous laws in some countries).

If anyone can think of anything common I'm missing feel free to chime in👍.

Hopefully I will never even need to open any of these. I firmly believe that diligent husbandry and a high quality diet prevents the vast majority of fish illness but, it can't hurt to be ready imo...

 

[FISHnLAB]

In the UK we're unable to access most medications without a veterinary prescription.

Just to add to my other post Myrtle...

You could contact a vet and explain you want to build a first aid kit with some common meds for your fish as time is of the utmost importance when dealing with many fish illnesses and the government is preventing you from providing the best care for the animals in your care. Have a list ready to talk over with them and ask any questions you may have. Hopefully after some discussion you will leave with a handful of scripts(most Vets are reasonable and care most about your animals welfare). It may cost you a bit for the consultation but, you should get what you need👍.

 

[MichaelJ]

My war chest so far includes...

Fluval Aquarium Salt
Seachem StressGuard(Methylene Blue and Glut apparently)
Fritz Maracyn(Erythromycin)
Fritz ParaCleanse(Metronidazole and Praziquantel)
Merek Panacur(Fenbendazole)

I still need to get something for Ick and maybe another antiparasitic(I hear the infamous Hydroxychloroquine works great but, may be hard to find now due to more ridiculous laws in some countries).

Thanks for the list.

I wonder what fish meds specifically we in the US can buy, but you in the UK or Canada can not. Perhaps buying it online and having it shipped in from the US is an option?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[FISHnLAB]

Thanks for the list.

I wonder what fish meds specifically we in the US can buy, but you in the UK or Canada can not. Perhaps buying it online and having it shipped in from the US is an option?

Cheers,
Michael

No problem👍.

My understanding is that there are pretty much no limits in the states and you can buy almost anything over the counter(often right in the local pet store). Here in Canada, my understanding is that pretty much everything but, holistic remedies requires a prescription. That said, one can allegedly find many of these meds without a prescription if one looks around(they don't appear to spend too much time enforcing these stupid rules). It is also allegedly easy, but expensive, to get a script from online and physical veterinary services for anything you need so the law has basically no effect other then killing fish and costing kind Aquarists more of their hard earned money to keep their fish healthy and safe. It's total BS imo...