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Is there a perfect way to euthanise

Discussion in 'Fish' started by Annabellam, 6 Feb 2017.

  1. Annabellam

    Annabellam Newly Registered

    Messages:
    14
    Interesting. I did not know about this. Thanks.
     
  2. limz_777

    limz_777 Member

    Messages:
    156
    Unfortunately I did lost some difficult species, which is chaca chaca catfish, true jaguar catfish and frog fish, which refused to eat at start, bought freshly from fish stores, not all species will do well, there no right or wrong way, do what you guys deem best to euthanized.
     
    Last edited: 16 Feb 2017
  3. roadmaster

    roadmaster Member

    Messages:
    1,023
    As long as it's quick.= O.K. IMHO
    Off with the head is quickest, but in my younger year's I placed the fish in bag 1/2 full of water and froze them.
    Didn't have to see any struggling that way.
     
  4. alto

    alto Member

    Messages:
    2,137
    Please don't use a blunt object such as a "toothpick" to pith a fish (destruction of brain stem - btw placement is important) - this is NOT humane death "euthanasia"

    I was resolutely not replying to this topic but the toothpick notion is too awful to ignore

    CO2 "euthanasia " of animals such as dogs, cats, livestock is not comparable to the process in fish - which has been studied as a method of euthanasia with published reports in veterinary & "fish" journals
     
    three-fingers likes this.
  5. Lindy

    Lindy Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,727
    I found an interesting article in practical fish keeping on this very subject. I'd encourage anyone to read to full article but I screen shot a couple of clips.
    4e7b2397b1dd16f5b8fb22ea108a80f7.jpg

    9d384a542cc6cefc4429ef555218509b.jpg

    The article covers several other methods and is worth a read.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
    JSeymour likes this.
  6. three-fingers

    three-fingers Member

    Messages:
    296
    Not a nice subject. There is no perfect way to euthanise IMO, it should always be an unpleasant thing for us to do and only used as a last resort to end incurable suffering.

    Blunt trauma (or the brick method) is the fastest and most acceptable in my opinion. It should be done as fast as possible with no deliberating and will not be a nice experience for yourself. It should never be easy to do IMO...

    All other methods have too much margin for error or just make it easy for us without considering all the possibilities of what the fish could be perceiving.

    Luckily it is very rare I have to euthanise anything nowadays...different story when I worked at an LFS :(.
     
    JSeymour, dw1305 and Lindy like this.
  7. andyone

    andyone Member

    Messages:
    62
    Small fish (Tetra size) simply quick squeeze to the head between thumb and finger, instant and you can even do it in the tank if the fish is that far gone. Bigger fish sharp blow again to the head. Not a pleasant task but a kindness if the fish is suffering and I feel is part of the responsibility of anyone keeping a creature in captivity to avoid suffering.

    Pity we can't apply it to ourselves if requested but that's just my personal opinion.
     
    JSeymour and Lindy like this.
  8. Madhav

    Madhav Member

    Messages:
    87
    I started feeding fine powder tetra food, this little fella managing to scoop through the falling bits and swallowing I believe. Still surviving and everything is nornal except its suspected broken jaw. It doesnt show any signs of stress.

    I know how stressful it is for the fish, now the question is shall I or shall I not?

    My decision is to wait until it shows some stress before I take my big net and knife.

    Any thoughts?

    Sent from my HUAWEI GRA-UL00 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Lindy

    Lindy Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,727
    I would agree. My betta couldn't open her mouth so couldn't even get food by scoop. She was extremely thin and week.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
  10. JSeymour

    JSeymour Newly Registered

    Messages:
    20
    I'm not sure why you think it is awful. A toothpick is plenty large to cause total brain destruction in a small fish like a neon. Their brains are not that big.

    CO2 is definitely considered cruel in many countries, and as I and others have stated, is illegal in many cases. CO2 dissolved in water creates carbonic acid. Until the fish suffocates, it will be stressed and suffering from the drastic pH shift. Remember, it take 3 minutes for the brain to die without O2. That's along time to suffer.
     
  11. alto

    alto Member

    Messages:
    2,137
    Seems simple enough to use a sharp object rather than a blunt one :rolleyes:

    I guess no knives or needles/pins available :confused:

    Topic title is "euthanasia" not "how to kill a fish" ... though a significant proportion of contributors seem to consider these equal statements :wideyed:


    Curious if you've read the veterinary studies on fish euthanasia?
     
  12. Lindy

    Lindy Forum Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,727
    Most of the fish I keep are less than 8cm long, the majority around 4-5 cm. The length of time and extra handling needed to immobilise a fish while I locate the right place to cut or poke would cause unnecessary stress. I haven't read veterinary papers on fish euthanasia but trust that using co2 was banned in the EU for good reasons ie causing pain.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: 18 Feb 2017
  13. JSeymour

    JSeymour Newly Registered

    Messages:
    20
    If it's eating and seems to be enjoying life, let it live. If there comes a point it can't sustain itself and/or stops "normal", healthy rasbora behavior, then I'd think about euthanasia.

    If that time comes, I highly recommend fast and complete destruction of the brain. Many people have given great suggestions. I'll give them my personal 'gore' rating for those who are squeamish or have young children. This can be done with your fingers in the net(minimal to moderate gore), a large heavy object(moderate to high gore level), an object can be inserted into the brain cavity large enough to cause COMPLETE destruction (minimal to slightly moderate gore), or a pharmaceutical, likely in the Caine drug family(no gore). The pharmaceuticals may be hard to obtain, best luck through an understanding veterinarian.

    CO2 should not be used on fish. There are many legitimate reasons it is illegal in many modern countries. Using an overly small object to insert into the brain should also not be used either. If the fish is larger then say 7 cm, I wouldn't use a toothpick, a knife is better. Most aquarium fish will not require anything larger than a standard table knife. Please refrain from using a needle or pin. When I was going to school for veterinary medicine I was a TA for my biology profressor, and my job, once every semester, was to pith 1500 leopard frogs for dissection. This involves inserting a needle and scrambling the brain. I can tell you from experience, using a needle is a fine line between dead and paralyzed, expecially in a novices hands.

    In your case, I'd wait a bit longer. You might be surprised with his resilience.
     
  14. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

    Messages:
    5,813
    Hi all,
    That is one of the advantages of clove oil, it is widely obtainable as a treatment for tooth-ache etc.

    cheers Darrel
     
    JSeymour likes this.
  15. JSeymour

    JSeymour Newly Registered

    Messages:
    20
    As long as it is 85+% eugenol for proper dosage, according to the AVMA, clove oil is an acceptable method of euthanasia(dosed to 400 mg/L) for at least 10 minutes. The University of Texas recommends pithing afterwards to be sure the fish is not just anesthetized. So either way, you should be destroying the brain with an object.
     
    dw1305 likes this.

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