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Input on equipment and other newbie questions

Jessica

Jessica

New Member
Joined
7 Jan 2018
Messages
10
Location
Edinburgh
Hi all, as mentioned on my intro thread, I'm a complete newbie to pressurised CO2 systems so I have a LOT of questions. Thank you in advance for any advice and your time 🙂

The aquarium I'm starting from scratch with is a 60x30x30cm open topped, so about 50 litres of so. From my understanding of reading around the forum, the most important considerations are CO2, flow, and nutrients, with light being a little over-hyped? My budget for this is going to need to be a max of £400 realistically for initial outlay/essentials.

My plan thus far, is JBL m501 pressurised CO2 system, rated for up to 400l, is this going to be complete overkill? I may want to in future, use fire extinguishers and if anybody knows if the equipment fits standard fire extinguishers that would be useful. I may also want to in future, upgrade the tank so I'm trying to bear that in mind with which sized CO2 kit to go with. Still, I'm not likely to upgrade any bigger than 150l I would think. For now, I'm on a budget so the tank will have to be what I have spare here. Am I right in thinking this C02 kit will come with everything I need to get started?

Lighting - I have used Aqua one Tropiglo with good results (read: no planting substrates, just ferts) so I thought the Aqua one Plantglo may be a good option. It seems to have a mix of red, blue and white LED's. It also appears to be gentle on the pocket - I don't want to scrimp but also really can't afford lights that cost hundreds upon hundreds. I've seen 'specific' plant growing lights for near on £1000, a little frightening. Mention of PAR and lumens is rather confusing at present.

Substrate, I'm thinking JBL Proscape, I think it says on the pack one x 9ltr bag is enough for a 80x30cm for a depth of 2cm, so this should be plenty for a 60x30cm from their directions? I thought JBL Proscape Volcano Mineral underneath the soil may be a good option for adding depth and stability.

I think I'll also need a powerhead for good circulation?

Regarding nutrients/fertiliser, I have always used JBL fertiliser. Is it possible to still dose an all in one fertiliser with CO2 injection, or am I going to need to dose separate components from the offset? If so, I guess I'm going to need a good test kit that tests for more than the standard and iron.

The plants I hopefully want to grow are Bucephalandra species, red Cabomba (it always falls apart on me), some type of easier carpeting plant, Lobelia cardinalis 'Wavy', Nomaphila siamensis parvifolia, Alternanthera cardinalis, Nymphaea 'Tigerlotus red', a wee bit of moss and a small amount of Amazon frogbit which I love, but I know to keep on top of it so as not to shade the other plants. Am I expecting a little much? Thank you all, feeling a little overwhelmed at the moment. :crazy: :happy:

Jessica
 
Hey Jessica.
Welcome@Ukaps!
Here is some personal general advise. If you want to go the CO2 route i would first try to see if you can find a dependable CO2 source nearby ( FE or brewersshop or paintball outfit) and if you can find it go this route and skip the JBL stuff. A solid dual stage regulator and solenoid is the best.
Go for a large filter wich can accommodate a spraybar over the entire backwall of the tank and gives enough pressure the have the jets of water reach the opposite side of the tank easily, fit this with an inline diffusor or reactor ( for getting the CO2 in the water).
Only if you have this covered see what you have left for lighting. If it's not that much go for a simple T5 setup. Gettting fancy lights isn't needed for any plants to grow.
 
You’ll waste a chunk of your budget on the JBl CO2. As @Edvet said, dual stage solenoid is the one to go for. Safe and saves a lot of hassle and gives great control when paired with a simple plug timer.

CO2 kits can be a great way to get all the equipment you need at a good price. For example I bought a kit from Co2 art over a year ago for £120. Came with dual solenoid valve, 80mm diffuser, (and up reactor for some reason) co2 tubing, drop checker and Fluid.

At the start I was buying Fire extinguishers (FE) from Amazon for 2.5kg at £35. But then I had the hassle of trying to work out where to recycle them as you can’t just refil a fire extinguisher due to the safety implications, most companies won’t do it and most tips won’t accept them. I now use a local company via Adams Gas, and pay about £40 (£20 delivery and collection of old one, £20 refil) for a 6.5kg canister, they refill and replace it so none of the hassle either. This would suit you’re current setup and anything upto about 700L. If you need more, change the diffuser or use a reactor and just increase the amount you inject.

For lights simple LEDS work. I use Fluval plant 2.0 with a ramp up/down WiFi controller to mimic sunset and sun rise. It means the light slowly grows into intensity so is softer on the fish’s eyes (who don’t have eye lids) and also they don’t startle and as such act a lot more naturally during the day and night. I highly recommend them, my plants look great and the controlling of them via my phone or automatically suits me perfectly. You can get cheaper setups but the Fluval lights are great.

Tiger lotus in an open top tank is beautiful. Trim back longer leaves to encourage more compact growth, or allow them to reach the surface an it will eventually reward you with a beautiful flower.

It will shoot runners out and from these new Tiger lotus will grow. cut and remove or replant.
 
You already have some great advice her, I just want to add:
  • If you can't find a place to refill a CO2 fire extinguisher, your next best option is to use Sodastream canisters, available from lots of places, including Argos.
  • If you want to upgrade your lighting, Chihiros LED lights are probably one of the best lights around when considering cost & quality and they won't cost you a limb like most good lights do. Hinterfeld sells them for a good price, or you can try to buy some used ones (I may have a couple of them if you're interested)
  • Floating plants are great on open top tanks... Frogbit, Dwarf Water Lettuce, and Salvinia natans are my favorites.
  • Needing a powerhead or not depends on your filter output and scape. You probably won't need it.
 
Thank you both for your time and advice. I think the reason I wanted to go with a kit at first, is because I'm a bit nervous about putting together my own kit until I actually know what I'm doing 😳 It's a bit overwhelming at present. I'll definitely consider the alternative and see if there is a dependable CO2 source nearby to weigh up options. I certainly don't want to waste money only to later down the line find out it's not up to the job and I need to repurchase.

The JBL kit description said it came with an extendable diffuser - I guess this still isn't up to the job then hence needing an inline diffuser, or is that simply an item I'd need to buy separately if I went for the fire extinguisher option? The description also said the JBL kit comes with a pressure regulator - I'm guessing this isn't the same as a dual stage regulator and solenoid? I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure what a solenoid is - I tend to find it easier to see how things work etc when they're actually in front of me! 🙁 I assumed I would be able to fit the JBL kit to a timer.

Thank you for the tips on the lighting. It's good to know you have success with the Fluval LED's Chubbs, I've seen them about but not really heard many peoples opinions using them with CO2. Edvet, would you recommend T5's over the Aqua One Plantglo?
 
kadoxu - I will PM you about the lights, thank you for your advice also, I'm sure you all get the same questions all the time, but for me it's all new and confusing so I really do appreciate the help.
 
Wel i'm kinda old skool and with T5's i know what i get, and it's more then plenty to grow all you like. It's not as fashionable as the pretty new LED's, but that market needs to grow and mature a bit before i will put my faith and money full scale into that. I use LED's but more the cheaper floodlights. My large tanks has HQI and T5's.
 
It can be a bit overwhelming at first, but by doing some research and asking more experienced people for opinions, you are already on the right track.

If you want to save money, always go for the best you can afford... or you'll probably just end up spending more on upgrades (like I did).
 
I only ordered my first co2 bits and bobs last week, I learned what I needed from reading on here and went with what fit my budget and quality requirements.

It's a lot less complicated than it all seems at first.
 
Thanks for understanding guys. I'm sure I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. I want to get it right, I have been waiting years to take the plunge. I do try my best to research too as well as asking those more experienced - it can take a while for the new info to finally 'sink in' with me, ha. So many different opinions, part of it is taking good advice and adapting it during your journey to find your own way.

Also thanks to kadoxu I now have the lighting sorted and out of the way. One less thing to worry about! :joyful:
 
Hi Jessica, welcome to the forum.
I agree there can be lots of conflicting info out there, even on this forum you will find differing opinions.
However once you have studied the form, you will then realise there are only a few basic facts that need to be applied to obtain a nice planted tank & it need not be over complicated.
 
Jessica said:
The JBL kit description said it came with an extendable diffuser - I guess this still isn't up to the job then hence needing an inline diffuser, or is that simply an item I'd need to buy separately if I went for the fire extinguisher option? The description also said the JBL kit comes with a pressure regulator - I'm guessing this isn't the same as a dual stage regulator and solenoid? I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure what a solenoid is - I tend to find it easier to see how things work etc when they're actually in front of me! 🙁 I assumed I would be able to fit the JBL kit to a timer.
Click to expand...

The JBL diffuser is a giant plastic spiral tunnel. This will quickly be engulfed in algae if your tank is not balanced and be a nightmare to keep clean. You just don’t need it, you can buy lovely small glass ones with ceramic discs to create micro bubbles. Rhinnox do some nice ones including their ‘bazooka’ which I’ve had for a year. I hide mine under my filter inlet and have yet to have to clean it or mess with it.

Solenoids are typically black plastic boxes on the regulators neck (and have a powercable obviously) - google is your friend here... if it doesn’t look like it has this then you’ll find turning it on and off will be a manual job every day. Where as combine a solenoid with a timer plug and it’s a fit, set and forget Setup.

With JBL you’re paying a proportion of the sales price for the brand name and packaging, on products where brand doesn’t matter.
 
Jessica said:
if there is a dependable CO2 source nearby
Click to expand...

http://www.forthfireprotection.co.uk

This is where you can get your gas refilled, costs a tenner per refill, nice and friendly.

I have two tapped gas bottles (non fire extinguisher) that I get refilled 800g at a time, not the most economical but I have had the conversation with ForthFP that they could source a larger volume tapped non fire extinguisher CO₂ gas bottle that they can refill and service (£50-60ish so not extortionate for peace of mind). I prefer a gas bottle that I can turn a tap on and off to than taping/cabletied the grab handle on an FE.
 
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