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IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator

medlight

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2021
Messages
43
Location
España
When D Wongs gives use the Nitrogen is he talking [N] or [NO3] we decide to always use [NO3] although the calculator does quote both in the later details, folk use what they are familiar/happy with.
View attachment 171523
This is something that intrigues me, because it is clear that N is nitrogen, not NO3, which means that its fertiization is not very lean, so I think that you are using various nitrogen sources for N, as KNO3 is only impossible, if you add KH2PO4 , its% in N (KNO3) is limited to 58%, if it is used by a source of P without potassium, it can reach up to 75.56% ...
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,595
Location
Yorkshire,UK
What should I set salt ratios to on "tank and dosing"?
The ratios are for each nutrient group NO3, PO4, K etc If you only have one salt in each group it doesn't matter what ratio you use the results are the same. If using multi salts say for NO3 eg Potassium Nitrate and Urea and set the ratio to '1' for both the Target NO3 for each salt is 50% of the total NO3 target ( same if you set each one at '367' - both get an each share). If you set Potassium Nitrate to '9' and urea to '1' Potassium Nitrate will supply 90% of the NO3 and Urea will supply 10%. The amount each salt supplies of the nutrient group is shown in the salt share. Doing a 'salt share' was the easiest way we came up with doing it

I set the ratios to "1" and clone tnc complete but the values look really low for my container:

your dosing will only supply the Standard dose of TNC complete when the TNC dose is set to '1'

1641058070116.png


Changing the Container Volume, dose amount, and frequency will only change the volume you add not the nutrients in each dose, the concentration of each dose will change but not the amount of nutrients. If you make it too concentrate it will point out you have exceeded the solubility limits for the salts.

If you wish to dose x2 the TNC dose set it too '2' and nothing your done.

Remember when it makes a clone all it clones is the nutrients per week not a 'true' clone - If you wish to make a 'true' clone then just set the IFC to the dose amount and frequency which TNC advise as standard, the Volume of container is irrelevant

first of all - thanks for creating this

You welcome and thanks :D
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,595
Location
Yorkshire,UK
This is something that intrigues me, because it is clear that N is nitrogen, not NO3
What folk use is irrelevant some use N others use NO3, Although using N, P and K are what is used mainly in agriculture when firms supply nutrients, but as far as I am aware no plants uses N or P they use compounds which contain N and P.

The main reasons we chose to use NO3, K and PO4 are because the popular dosing regime EI dosing's quotes these figure and plants take up NO3, K and PO4.
Although when dosing for NO3 we advise Potassium Nitrate, however Urea has no NO3 however we have allowed for its conversion by the micro flora in the tank or by the plant itself.
 

deeproots

Member
Joined
26 Sep 2016
Messages
48
Location
Bedfordshire
The ratios are for each nutrient group NO3, PO4, K etc If you only have one salt in each group it doesn't matter what ratio you use the results are the same. If using multi salts say for NO3 eg Potassium Nitrate and Urea and set the ratio to '1' for both the Target NO3 for each salt is 50% of the total NO3 target ( same if you set each one at '367' - both get an each share). If you set Potassium Nitrate to '9' and urea to '1' Potassium Nitrate will supply 90% of the NO3 and Urea will supply 10%. The amount each salt supplies of the nutrient group is shown in the salt share. Doing a 'salt share' was the easiest way we came up with doing it



your dosing will only supply the Standard dose of TNC complete when the TNC dose is set to '1'

View attachment 179202

Changing the Container Volume, dose amount, and frequency will only change the volume you add not the nutrients in each dose, the concentration of each dose will change but not the amount of nutrients. If you make it too concentrate it will point out you have exceeded the solubility limits for the salts.

If you wish to dose x2 the TNC dose set it too '2' and nothing your done.

Remember when it makes a clone all it clones is the nutrients per week not a 'true' clone - If you wish to make a 'true' clone then just set the IFC to the dose amount and frequency which TNC advise as standard, the Volume of container is irrelevant



You welcome and thanks :D
Thankyou! So just so I've got this right, could you please have a look to see if this looks reasonable? I chose EI dosing low as my target (instead of tnc). I chose to dose 20ml per day, 7 days a week into a 280l with injected co2 (not a high bps, 2-3bps), fluval plant 3 (59w) and a nicrew sky led plus 120cm on 14 hours a day.

Macro:

1641151797769.png

Micro (I have chempak sequestered iron as well as AFPUK trace, so I chose FE7%, not sure if this is anywhere near correct):

1641151892787.png

Thankyou for your help so far
 

Yugang

Member
Joined
13 Mar 2021
Messages
341
Location
Hong Kong
Thanks for this great calculator, and the ongoing time spent for its maintenance and debugging.

Talking about "AIO" (all in one), can all macros be safely (chemistry still good for plant uptake) mixed in one container with tap water and kept for a couple of weeks at room temperature? Any exceptions to this?
 

hypnogogia

Member
Joined
6 Apr 2017
Messages
1,005
Location
Oxfordshire
Advice is usually to use RO not tap water. Especially for AIO where you need to reduce the pH so that there is not interaction. If you have hard tap that will be difficult.
 

Yugang

Member
Joined
13 Mar 2021
Messages
341
Location
Hong Kong
Trying to reformulate my question in general terms, rather than for my specific tank (I dose all Macros and Micros from separate bottles, just to be sure):

“What salts can be mixed in an All-In-One solution (without significant adverse reactions that may limit nutrient availability for plant uptake), and what are the exceptions where there is a need to keep salts separate in multiple dosing containers and/or dose at separate times into the tank?”

With my very limited knowledge of chemistry, I am trying to understand what seem to be two different cases with different dynamics:
  1. The dosing containers with relatively high concentrations of salts mixed and dissolved in water; these can potentially interact for weeks or months until the container is empty and will be replenished. This combination of high concentration and longer timeframe seems a worst case scenario from a adverse chemical reaction perspective.
  2. Our tank where salts are diluted down to ppm levels, and where the typical times for unwanted chemical interactions to take place are hours/days (the time between fresh doses into the tank). This raises the question whether it is indeed beneficial to dose different fertilisers on separate days if the objective is to mitigate potential chemical interactions between them.
I am hoping that there is a resource, or a brilliant chemist amongst us who can supplement this information to the IFC calculator.
 

Hanuman

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Thread starter
Joined
4 Jan 2019
Messages
1,368
Location
Thailand
I'll make this quick and easy.

DIY AIO can be done. HOWEVER, because we are using weak acids and sometimes non-chelated compounds, compounds will interact sooner rather than later. That is why in the calculator it is advised to do lowly concentrated solutions. Don't get me wrong, it is possible to do AIO fertilizers that will last for months/years but those commercially available products use strong acids such as citric acid, sulfuric acid or other rather dangerous acids for DIY.
Also ALWAYS use RO water (+DI even better) to prepare your fertilizer. You do not know what is in your tap water that WILL interact with the compounds you will add to the water. ALWAYS acidify the solution prior adding any salts, never after.

It is usually advised to separate macros, micros and Fe. Fe and micros could be mixed together as long as you acidify water properly and use higher concentration (Fe 11% up). Remember, this is DIY so we have limited access to high tech chemistry and must accept the downsides.

I'll let @Zeus. and @dw1305 answer the interaction technicalities as that is not my area of expertise but you can start here: Interactions
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,595
Location
Yorkshire,UK
I'll make this quick and easy.

DIY AIO can be done. HOWEVER, because we are using weak acids and sometimes non-chelated compounds, compounds will interact sooner rather than later. That is why in the calculator it is advised to do lowly concentrated solutions. Don't get me wrong, it is possible to do AIO fertilizers that will last for months/years but those commercially available products use strong acids such as citric acid, sulfuric acid or other rather dangerous acids for DIY.
Also ALWAYS use RO water (+DI even better) to prepare your fertilizer. You do not know what is in your tap water that WILL interact with the compounds you will add to the water. ALWAYS acidify the solution prior adding any salts, never after.

It is usually advised to separate macros, micros and Fe. Fe and micros could be mixed together as long as you acidify water properly and use higher concentration (Fe 11% up). Remember, this is DIY so we have limited access to high tech chemistry and must accept the downsides.

I'll let @Zeus. and @dw1305 answer the interaction technicalities as that is not my area of expertise but you can start here: Interactions
Summed up quite well IMO 👍

Plus we don't not make the solutions in a sterile environment, so we also introduce bacteria and spores of all sorts in our mix/broth, acidifying the solution also makes it an solution which will inhibited any bacteria and spores from thriving in them but its not 100% proof, so making a solution that will only last 6 to 8 weeks is a safer bet. I made some large batches early on and months later had mould in them. Always sterilise/disinfect your containers with at a least boiling water when making a new batch, I use multi containers which I rinse well and leave upside down till next time air dry as well.

I use RO water when I have it or boiled tap water cooled when I have non to hand.
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,595
Location
Yorkshire,UK
Thanks for this great calculator, and the ongoing time spent for its maintenance and debugging.
Thank you for your kind words 😁 and glad you fine it helpful :thumbup:
 

aquariumshed

New Member
Joined
16 Feb 2021
Messages
11
Location
GB
Just plugging my tanks into this calculator, and I honestly can't thank you guys enough. What a fantastic tool, remarkably detailed and really simple to get your head around. You've made my journey into dry salts so much simpler. Thanks so much!
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,595
Location
Yorkshire,UK
Just plugging my tanks into this calculator, and I honestly can't thank you guys enough. What a fantastic tool, remarkably detailed and really simple to get your head around. You've made my journey into dry salts so much simpler. Thanks so much!
Thank you, positive feedback makes all the hours spent well worth it 😁
 

Hanuman

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Thread starter
Joined
4 Jan 2019
Messages
1,368
Location
Thailand
It has just come to my attention that the weekly [NO3] for APT complete for its recommended weekly dose is incorrect :oops:, we will hopefully have it corrected soon
Just to make this clear for members who see this on this thread, NO3 for APT is correct. We just had a small doubt but ended being just a doubt. :)
 

hypnogogia

Member
Joined
6 Apr 2017
Messages
1,005
Location
Oxfordshire
I found a rather nasty bug in the DIYTraceCalculator and an update is underway. I would advise anyone using that DIYTraceCalculator holding from using it until the update. I'll make another post when the update is ready for download.
What’s the bug please? Is it under or over calculating trace requirements?
 

Hanuman

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Thread starter
Joined
4 Jan 2019
Messages
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Location
Thailand
What’s the bug please? Is it under or over calculating trace requirements?
The bug is with Fe. An error in the formula ends up screwing with the solubility limits advised in the "instruction" columns. This should not affect 99.99% of people because anyways I don't think anyone does serial dilution for Fe.
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,595
Location
Yorkshire,UK
The bug is with Fe. An error in the formula ends up screwing with the solubility limits advised in the "instruction" columns. This should not affect 99.99% of people because anyways I don't think anyone does serial dilution for Fe.
The reason it was missed is that as Hanni said serial dilutions are not really needed for Fe and you would have to be going for very high target Fe ppms or lots of Fe in grams in very little water - the salt just wouldn't of dissolved and the undissolved salt would of been very obvious to anyone with common sense. The coding/formulas for the instructions can be tricky to do to cover everything and minor errors/oversights are easy IMO.
 

Hanuman

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Thread starter
Joined
4 Jan 2019
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For the curious geeks out there, here is the formula in question. I think anyone would understand why bugs can occur 😇. This is just one cell 🤓
=IF(OR($K$15=0,$K$16=0,$K$17=0,AND($L31="yes",$N31>$M31),AND($L31="yes",$N31>$K$16*$O$28%),IF(SUMIFS($N$31:$N$39,$L$31:$L$39,"yes",$M$31:$M$39,">0")>=$K$16,N31,0)>=($K$16-SUMIFS($N$31:$N$39,$L$31:$L$39,"yes",$M$31:$M$39,">0"))),"-",
IF(IsPPM,
IF($L31="yes",
IF(OR($J31="",$O31=""),"-",IF(($R31/$M31*1000)/INDEX(SS!$H$29:$H$48,MATCH(DIYTraceCalculator!G31,SS!$B$29:$B$48,0))<1,IF($R31="-","-","Add "&ROUND($R31,2)&" gr of '"&$H31&"' to your "&$M31&" ml stock container, then add "&$N31&" ml of that solution to your "&DIYTraceAdjustedMicroVolume&" ml " &IF(AIO="yes","AIO","Micro")&" container."),"Trace Solubility Exceeded ("&ROUND(($R31/$M31*1000)/INDEX(SS!$H$29:$H$48,MATCH(DIYTraceCalculator!G31,SS!$B$29:$B$48,0))%,1)&" %) - Increase ml taken from stock solution to " &IF(AIO="yes","AIO","Micro")&" container.")),
IF($L31="no",
IF($J31="","-",IF(($S31/$K$16*1000)/INDEX(SS!$H$29:$H$48,MATCH(DIYTraceCalculator!G31,SS!$B$29:$B$48,0))<1,IF($S31="-","-","Add "&ROUND(S31,2)&" gr of '"&$H31&"' to your " &IF(AIO="yes","AIO","Micro")&" container."),"Trace Solubility Exceeded ("&ROUND(($S31/$K$16*1000)/INDEX(SS!$H$29:$H$48,MATCH(DIYTraceCalculator!G31,SS!$B$29:$B$48,0))%,1)&" %) - Try increasing your daily dosage in the TankAndDosing sheet.")),"-")),
IF(IsGrams,
IF($L31="yes",
IF(OR($I31="",$O31=""),"-",IF(($I31/$M31*1000)/INDEX(SS!$H$29:$H$48,MATCH(DIYTraceCalculator!G31,SS!$B$29:$B$48,0))<1,IF($R31="-","-","Add "&ROUND(R31,2)&" gr of '"&$H31&"' to your "&$M31&" ml stock container, then add "&$N31&" ml of that solution to your "&DIYTraceAdjustedMicroVolume&" ml " &IF(AIO="yes","AIO","Micro")&" container."),"Trace Solubility Exceeded ("&ROUND(($I31/$M31*1000)/INDEX(SS!$H$29:$H$48,MATCH(DIYTraceCalculator!G31,SS!$B$29:$B$48,0))%,1)&" %) - Increase ml taken from stock solution to " &IF(AIO="yes","AIO","Micro")&" container.")),
IF($L31="no",
IF($I31="","-",IF(($I31/$K$16*1000)/INDEX(SS!$H$29:$H$48,MATCH(DIYTraceCalculator!G31,SS!$B$29:$B$48,0))<1,IF($S31="-","-","Add "&ROUND($S31,2)&" gr of '"&$H31&"' to your " &IF(AIO="yes","AIO","Micro")&" container."),"Trace Solubility Exceeded ("&ROUND(($I31/$K$16*1000)/INDEX(SS!$H$29:$H$48,MATCH(DIYTraceCalculator!G31,SS!$B$29:$B$48,0))%,1)&" %) - Try increasing your daily dosage in the TankAndDosing sheet.")),"-")),"-")))
You can breath now.
 
Last edited:
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