[Mid tech low effort journal] If you want to make god laugh...

[LightingBamboozled]

So here are my plans.

I've had a C.250L tank that's been fish first plants second for 2.5 years and I'd like to give the plants a little more love. As I started to put these plans together some unavoidable things have put delays in them to at least the end of the month if not early June.

It's roughly 150cm x 40cm by 39.5cm internally. There's an inch or so of inert large sand/small gravel. No real hardscape (some synthetic hollow roots hiding intake pipework, a synthetic through cave and one block of lava rock) other than driftwood.
Stockwise its Cherry Barbs (Succesfully breeding), Neon Tetra & Lemon tetra as the main community. Some Silver Flying Foxes and Bristlenose pleco as the bigger fish and then Amanos, Bamboo shrimp, zebra nerites, onion nerites and malaysian trumpet snails for inverts.
Plantswise

• Valisneria sold as Spiralis but I think it's americana,
• Hygrophila Corumbosa 'Siamensis 53B' that's never grown well
• Lobelia Cardinalis mini that grows as dense bushes although it gets a little GSA
• Eleocharis acicularis mini which is going slow
• Dwarf Sag which I thought had all died but recently started spreading among the eleocharis
• Marsilea hirsuta and crenata forming a loose carpet at the shady end
• Java Ferns that were doing really badly and then recently have sprung to life all over the tank
• Java moss, that gets nibbled to hell by the SFFs
• Water Sprite that's growing like a weed
• Limnophila sessiflora that grows well int he light and leggily in the shady end.
• Alternathera Reineckii pink that's been just barely clinging to life since February
• Limnobium Laevigatum and Salvinia Auriculata floating over 1/4 of the surface to create a shady end

The plants have at various times done well or poorly but I'd like to start helping them all do well as healthy plants will make for a less messy tank in the long run.

Filtration is two Tetra EX1200's returning via one spraybar along the length of the tank and the other vertical spraying along the front of the tank. Lighting is two t5 HO 80W bulbs with reflectors about 12cm above the water (over the perspex lids) for 10 hrs per day. CO2 injection is a CO2 art inline diffusor leading to the vertical spraybar but one of the first changes I aim to make is to switch that for a reactor because I'm tired of the tank being bubbly during the day and also I have a huge ramp up time. Just bought one off a fellow forum member. Have some plans to modify it but want to try it stock first. Quick disconnects arrived today so I'll rig it up so I can swap it in and fiddle but put the diffuser back in if it goes tits up once I've got some time at the end of the month.

Fertiliser wise I add about 8ml of 2 hr Aqurist APT 1 for micros daily and generally don't dose macros. Recently, after large water changes I've been adding some Flourish Nitrogen because I noticed the frogbit would look unhappy if I did big changes. So that's the second thing I'd like to change is getting fertiliser balanced right for healthy growth although the goal isn't rapid growth, just healthy leaves on all the plants and not encouraging new algae outbreaks. Currently I get a bit of green spot on slow growing leaves and some patches of glass. And another softer green algae occasionally on the glass. AR and Hygrophila are the two plants that suffer most. Water sprite occasionally drops leaf tips as it gets crowded. I've never made my own but I'm pretty good at maths and comfy with chemistry but no idea where to start on that.

The other change I'd quite like to make is a bit of structure to the tank. Things have been thrown in kind of willy nilly. There's no sense of Aquascape. I'd like to start to bring some structure to things to make a more attractive visual. No idea where to start on that, nor what order to do things in, nor what I want the final result to be if I'm honest.

Well, once I get started I'm sure there will be 100 disasters and hence the journal.

Enough words, more pictures.

Closer shots

And the all important Frogbit Index (This image is a little washed out relative to real life because of the brightness of the T5's.

And some parameters. pH 7.4 dropping to 6.6, kH 3.5, gH 8 ish, phosphate 4 out of the tap, Nitrate ~15, Temp 23.8C

Edit to Add Water Report details

Parameter	Min	Mean	Max
CaCO3 (mg/l)	112.73	129.01	136.93
Ca (mg/l)	36.33	42.84	47.56
Total Hardness	45.09	51.60	54.77
Chloride (mg/l)	13.28	20.69	28.09
HCO3 (mg/l)	34.09	60.67	94.42
Mg (mg/l)	4.21	5.33	6.09
Sodium (mg/l)	11.51	14.73	16.36
Sulphate (mg/l)	59.49	72.46	81.16
Aluminium (ug/l)	3.900	7.586	14.844
Ammonium (mg/l)	0.014	0.016	0.024
Antimony (ug/l)	0.160	0.162	0.176
Arsenic (ug/l)	0.121	0.156	0.19
Boron (mg/l)	0.013	0.015	0.018
Cadmium (ug/l)	0.018	0.021	0.027
Chromium (ug/l)	0.170	0.193	0.352
Copper (mg/l)	0.004	0.035	0.095
Cyanide (ug/l)	<5.500	<5.500	<5.500
Conductivity (uS/cm 20C)	261	296.079	360.1
Fluoride (mg/l)	0.062	0.148	0.340
Hydrogen Ions (pH units)	6.8	7.157	7.5
Iron (ug/l)	<5.200	<21.127	242.34
Lead (ug/l)	0.065	0.131	0.553
Manganese (ug/l)	0.280	0.970	11.941
Nickel (ug/l)	1.475	2.124	3.134
Nitrate (mg/l)	1.500	2.933	5.980
Nitrite (mg/l)	<0.003	<0.003	<0.004
Sodium (mg/l)	11.511	14.731	16.361
Sulphate (mg/l)	59.493	72.456	81.162
Total Organic Carbon (mg/l)	1.4	2.29	3.4

 

[John q]

Palm 37,12
The Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming.

Tank looks 👌 mate.

 

[Myrtle]

That's pretty much how I start all my tanks, no direction, no "vision" and no idea!
The tank looks great already, so you've got a headstart with some decent sized plants already there

 

[MichaelJ]

Nice tank!

Fertiliser wise I add about 8ml of 2 hr Aqurist APT 1 for micros daily and generally don't dose macros. Recently, after large water changes I've been adding some Flourish Nitrogen because I noticed the frogbit would look unhappy if I did big changes.

Yes, it looks like your Frogbit could benefit from a bit of additional Macros - N in particular (which is absent in APT1?) and possibly Mg (your water source is likely very low on Mg). No reason to go overboard though.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Flourish nitrogen is a mix of potash and urea, What sort of dosing would you recommend 1ml of flourish per day is a a little over 1mg/l nitrogen increase. Is that a lot? Tap water is about 5.3mg/l Mg and APT1 adds about 0.5mg/l daily.

If I want to start mixing dry ferts how do I work out where to start?

 

[bazz]

If I want to start mixing dry ferts how do I work out where to start?

As far as I'm concerned the best way without a doubt is the use of the IFC Calculator IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator
Download and familiarise yourself with it, if you have any problems a good few people on here are more than willing to assist.
Of course, there are other ways.
Cheers!

 

[LightingBamboozled]

As far as I'm concerned the best way without a doubt is the use of the IFC Calculator IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator
Download and familiarise yourself with it, if you have any problems a good few people on here are more than willing to assist.

Yeah, I've familiarised myself with the calculator, there's a gap in knowledge required to use it though. It's fantastic when you know what you want to add. But I don't. I have no idea what I want to add, that's the advice I'm hoping to find from experienced forum members.

 

[Hanuman]

Customized - Ezekiel 25:17

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon you.

God is not laughing.

Fertiliser wise I add about 8ml of 2 hr Aqurist APT 1 for micros daily and generally don't dose macros. Recently, after large water changes I've been adding some Flourish Nitrogen because I noticed the frogbit would look unhappy if I did big changes. So that's the second thing I'd like to change is getting fertiliser balanced right for healthy growth although the goal isn't rapid growth, just healthy leaves on all the plants and not encouraging new algae outbreaks. Currently I get a bit of green spot on slow growing leaves and some patches of glass. And another softer green algae occasionally on the glass. AR and Hygrophila are the two plants that suffer most. Water sprite occasionally drops leaf tips as it gets crowded. I've never made my own but I'm pretty good at maths and comfy with chemistry but no idea where to start on that.

Speed of growth will largely be determined by photoperiod/intensity and CO2. My recommendation is you start using a complete fertilizer and stick with that. APT 3 could be a good starter since you are already using that product range but any complete fertilizer will work.
If you want to make it yourself, you can clone a commercial product with the IFC calculator. If you have questions regarding that subject just ask and we will help.

 

[LightingBamboozled]

If you want to make it yourself, you can clone a commercial product with the IFC calculator. If you have questions regarding that subject just ask and we will help.

I suppose my issue with asking questions is I don't know what I don't know.

It looks like I can replicate APT complete with a mix of potassium Nitrate, Monopotassium Phosphate and Potassium Chloride and then APFUK Chelated Trace.

First question is, given APFUK doesn't appear to exist any more, what are people using for their chelated trace elements?

Second question, I went for a small number of salts, is there any benefit to blending a wider variety of salts?

Third, to make sure I'm not a million miles away. For a 100ml container, assuming I've used the calculator correctly I'm getting 9.3g KNO3, 3.76g KH2PO4 and 18.25g KCl and that should last around a month.

Fourth, do people have a supplier they recommend for small amounts of these chemicals? I'm used to ordering things in like 5kg to 25kg bulk. but 150g of Potassium Nitrate is gonna last me over a year so I think smaller packages make more sense to start with, especially until I dial things in.

 

[Hanuman]

First question is, given APFUK doesn't appear to exist any more, what are people using for their chelated trace elements?

in the UK, Solufeed. You can probably find also some CSM+B through ebay.

Second question, I went for a small number of salts, is there any benefit to blending a wider variety of salts?

None. Ions are ions in solution no matter the initial compound. So if you can reach your ppm target with 3 or 4 or less compounds then your good and it doesn't matter what the initial compound was.

Third, to make sure I'm not a million miles away. For a 100ml container, assuming I've used the calculator correctly I'm getting 9.3g KNO3, 3.76g KH2PO4 and 18.25g KCl and that should last around a month.

What's the question here? I am not sure how you made your calculations but I am sensing you used a very low volume for your container and made the fertilizer very concentrated which is something that is not advisable. It's preferable to make a more dilute solution as when doing DIY ferts, you can end up with mold. I would recommend the solution not to last more than 2 months. Perhaps you should post a screenshot of the IFC calculator sheets with your input data.

Fourth, do people have a supplier they recommend for small amounts of these chemicals? I'm used to ordering things in like 5kg to 25kg bulk. but 150g of Potassium Nitrate is gonna last me over a year so I think smaller packages make more sense to start with, especially until I dial things in.

I'll let your fellowman answer the supplier question since I am in Thailand. You should be able to find 1Kg packaging though, I guess. 150g of potassium is not a lot BTW.

 

[LightingBamboozled]

I am not sure how you made your calculations but I am sensing you used a very low volume for your container and made the fertilizer very concentrated which is something that is not advisable. It's preferabQuotele to make a more dilute solution as when doing DIY ferts, you can end up with mold. I would recommend the solution not to last more than 2 months. Perhaps you should post a screenshot of the IFC calculator sheets with your input data.

100ml of solution dosing 4ml per day with a bottle intended to last 25 days. The goal wasn't to make it concentrated, just convenient. Attached IFC Calculator sheets.

150g of potassium is not a lot BTW.

If 9g Potassium nitrate makes up a 100ml bottle which lasts 25 days then 130g is a years worth give or take. Would that indicate I'd done some maths wrong then? (There's also twice as much potassium Chloride in there for a total of 15.96ppm weekly.)

 

[Hanuman]

100ml of solution dosing 4ml per day with a bottle intended to last 25 days. The goal wasn't to make it concentrated, just convenient. Attached IFC Calculator sheets.

If 9g Potassium nitrate makes up a 100ml bottle which lasts 25 days then 130g is a years worth give or take. Would that indicate I'd done some maths wrong then? (There's also twice as much potassium Chloride in there for a total of 15.96ppm weekly.)

Yes looks fine to me. I am just used to preparing larger containers (500ml or even 1L) and therefore using more salts but how you do it is absolutely fine.

If you want to reduce the concentration and potentially avoid reaching solubility limits, you could increase the container size and increase the dosing volume. This is just and example. You can play with both at will. This also prevents having to weight very small amounts of Ascorbic acid and Potassium sorbate. As you can see in your case you have 0.05gr and 0.04gr accordingly, which if you don't have an accurate scale will be difficult to weigh. In this case it's not dramatic but with traces this can become problematic.

 

[John q]

I'll let your fellowman answer the supplier question since I am in Thailand.

Small amounts of salts can be purchased here, but you'll pay over the odds.

Aquatic Plants Fertiliser | Aqua Plants Care

aquaplantscare.uk

By the kilo.

1000grm 1KG 13-0-46 POTASSIUM NITROGEN FULLY WATER SOLUBLE | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1000grm 1KG 13-0-46 POTASSIUM NITROGEN FULLY WATER SOLUBLE at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

1kg MONO POTASSIUM PHOSPHATE MKP 0-52-34 EXCELLENT HYDROPONIC FEED | eBay

It is a free flowing. MKP is a free flowing, fine crystalline powder which dissolves quickly in water without any residues. It is suited to application through all fertigation systems – hydroponics, drip systems, low throw sprinklers, centre pivots and spray units.

www.ebay.co.uk

For trace this is basically the same as apfuk trace.

Easy-Feed Extra

New Improved formulation containing, More nitrogen (N) More magnesium (Mg) A higher micronutrient content A complete liquid fertiliser solution

shopfront.solufeed.co.uk

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Right, I've finally cleared out all of May's non fish and aquarium related nonsense so I had a morning to work on the tank. I have now installed the reactor. That was, to put it shortly, a faff. Getting the air bubbles our of the reactor was an excercise in frustration. Getting the tubes the right length, likewise. There's one pipe I haven't cut in case I need to fiddle with the layout of things. And there was one moment where I disconnected the wrong hose and like the little dutch boy with the dyke all that stood between my fish tank and a very wet carpet was a little finger in the hole of the reactor.

Anyway, it's installed and not excessively noisy and I'm sure I can fine tune it over time to be less noisy. I now need to dial in the CO2. Did a test on the water before adding any CO2 and the pH was lower than it usually is. Maybe 6.8 down from 7.1 (API Master Test Kit liquid pH test), so I don't know what that'a about.

There are now three knobs to turn for the CO2. The pressure dial on the regulator, the needle valve before the bubble counter and the needle valve on the reactor. My instinct says I can effectively leave two of them wide open and dial it in with the other. That seems reckless however, so I think I'm going to set the Pressure dial to 30, the needle valve on the reactor to middle and dial it in with the needle valve on the bubble counter.

I've started regularly adding Flourish Nitrogen, but I've been eyeballing 1 thread each day and so stabilising the amount of that will be the next project whilst I get the CO2 dialled in.

The AR pink is still not growing well, I get two or four good leaves on a couple of them and then they go bad. I haven't made a long term decision about keeping vs replacing them. The tank definitely needs a bit more colour contrast in it.

I'm still getting quite a bit of green spot algae on the lower leaves of the lobelia cardinalis where they're shaded but I actually don't mind that beyond that it shows a nutrient imblance I should start targetting. And the Hygrophilla is basically not growing at all.

Limnobium, and water sprite still growing like weeds. I haven't worked out a good pruning regimen for them I tend to just let them grow and then hack them back. Java fern and dwarf sag both growing the best they ever have. Pictures to follow once the photoperiod starts.

 

[Hanuman]

The pressure dial on the regulator, the needle valve before the bubble counter and the needle valve on the reactor. My instinct says I can effectively leave two of them wide open and dial it in with the other. That seems reckless however, so I think I'm going to set the Pressure dial to 30, the needle valve on the reactor to middle and dial it in with the needle valve on the bubble counter.

There is technically no need for a needle valve on the reactor. You can use the one on the regulator or vice versa. As for the regulator valve, that one should only be set once. For reactors I would drop that to 20 PSI. There is no need to have it any higher since there is no real constraints like on a diffuser. As for bubble counting I would not rely on that. Rely on your PH drop.

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Didn't take long to get the reactor dialed in. Much preferring the tank without the bubble look. Did another bit of pruning recently, the bottom of the water sprite was getting a lot of dense, thick leafless stems and turning into an absolute bush, so I took and replanted the best looking stems. I also noticed the crinum had generated a young bulb which had nearly separated, so I split and replanted them. The main bud is looking a little drained. I haven't given up on the AR Pink yet but it's not healty, it's not growing well and if it doesn't improve with the future change to fertilisers I will look for something else red to replace it with. One of the blocks of java fern has grown round the wood it was attached to and while pruning has come lifted proud of the substrate in a way I don't find pleasing. I might just ditch it altogether.

Boosting nitrate has definitely helped the frogbit look healthier, and helped the dwarf sag which is now growing like a weed. I'll keep going with Flourish Nitrogen until it runs out and then likely switch to dry salts.

Next problem to deal with is phosphate. Tap water has dropped phosphate significantly and it now reads low in the tank. I'm beginning to see signs of deficiency. GSA is well established on old leaves, leaf tips are browning/thinning in places and growth is slow. Current plan is to buy a bag of Monopotassium Phosphate and dose each morning. I think I'm currently around 4ppm so I need to add 2 grams to get towards 10ppm and I think 1/32 teaspoon should be 0.6ppm per day which seems a good starting point.

Here's how the tank currently looks

A close up on some of the marsilea (Can't remember which is hirsuta and which is crenata)


The Limnophila at the shady end, The water sprite post hacking back and the limnophila in the middle.


The two stands of lobelia


The dwarf sag "carpet" and the baby crinum


Hygrophila Siamensis and the top java fern


The Reactor in situ and the all important frogbit index

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Have just discovered I have less Micro Fert left than I thought so need to order more. I have been using The 2 HR Aquarist APT 1 (7 or 8 ml per day). It describes its contents as

Each 5ml per 100l adds; 3.8ppm K, 0.05ppm Fe, And trace elements

Looking on the web composition is K 7%, Mg 1.2%, Fe 940 mg/L, Mn 149 mg/L, B 146 mg/L, Zn 70 mg/L, Cu 4 mg/L, Mo 0.009 mg/L. Given I'm moving to adding KH2PO4 I presume it doesn't matter if my new micro has less K in it.

Having had a look around, I'm looking at CSM+B from Aquaplantscare. Composition: Fe 7.8%, Mn 2%, B 1.4%, Zn 0.4%, Cu 0.1%, Mo 0.06%, E202 & E300. The ratios are a little different, Significantly more Mo and less Fe. And obviously I'd need to add a source of Magnesium (Magnesium Nitrate for preference I presume)

I'd happily pay a little more for a premixed liquid so I can focus on just one fertiliser change at a time but I guess it might be sensible to move to dry mix now to rip off the sticking plaster. TNC Lite looks pretty affordable, and dosing once weekly might make a nice change.
Any advice appreciated.

 

[Kaliilo]

Nothing helpful to add but your tank is stunning!

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Potassium Phosphate has arrived. I'm adding a little each day, We'll see by the end of the week whether or not it has an impact on algae.

Dealing with hot weather at the moment and the tank is peaking up close to 27C. Before it was heavily planted I'd just take the photoperiod down (the excess heat is almost entirely from the lights, the room isn't that warm) but I don't want to mess with too much at the moment so I can see the impact of one thing at a time. I'll jerry rig a fan to move more air over the hood. This will annoyingly impact evaporation but I don't want it getting any hotter. Is this temp increase likely to negatively affect any of the plants?

 

[LightingBamboozled]

Addition of Potassium phosphate has made the green unreal in my frogbit (so much so the camera isn't really showing it), I wish I'd got more pictures before thinning it out today but still, looking very nice. I'm almost out of liquid micros but I did order some CSMB+ and will go forward with that moving forward, hopefully no big deal with that fertiliser change.

AR pink has pretty mugh given up the ghost, It wasn't doing well at any point and then I went on holiday and it got smothered by the Limnophila so I've pulled all but two stems as basicaly leafless.. so I'm looking at other red/orange plants to add. I may also replace the little patch of Hygrophila with them because it's not growing well and I think that 1/3 of the way in is a good spot for some colour.


Ludwigia and Rotala species look like good candidates. I've seen some Bacopa that looked interesting but can't find it in stock now. Persicaria Sao Paulo looks great but I worry it would go the way of the AR. And Red camboba looks pretty but I think my light, CO2 and temp are all adverse for it. Any advice on easy candidates appreciated.

The lobelia is getting dense and tall but the lower leaves are still really suffering from GSA. I might uproot the left side and replant the tops to give it a fresh start.


The java fern has never looked better, pretty mich no damaged tips. I'm having to thin it out weekly now to stop it taking over its parts of the tank. Lots of the dwarf sag is forgetting the dwarf bit so I get plants 4" - 6" tall here and there but don't mind thinning them out.


While the water sprite has recovered from a very heavy trim the bottoms of the limnophila are browning slightly. Not a problem because I can just pull them and replant the tops but I'd like to know why.


With all the extra growth from the other plants the Vallis has slowed down significantly.


The transplanted bulb from the Crinum is growing well. The original bulb less so but it is a little overshadowed by the Lobelia which I intend to trim back, hopefully that will help it make a recovery.