I come to you all for help..

[Cryptocoryne]

Hello everyone. For the last 2 years plants have always struggled. I don't know what has happened. I dose my tanks using EI and always had great results. 50% water changes weekly and no CO2 and running lower light. I've experimented with getting flow in all parts of tanks and different levels of lighting. Sesiflora takes weeks to even grow a few inches! I have hygrophila polysperma and it's grown maybe a few inches in months. Would make you think it's a nutrient issue. Cryptocoryne even struggles! Both of my tanks. One is plain sand and one is aqua soil and both get the same treatment. These are the values from my water company. I hope I can figure this out as plants are my favorite part of the hobby! Use to grow carpets of cryptocoryne!

1. Size of tank: 60 gallons and 20 gallon long
2. Age of the system approximately: 60 gallons 5 years old 20 long is 3 years old
3. Tap water parameters: posted
4. Filtration: 60 gallon sunsun canister h304b and a marine land circulation pump 20 gallon sponge filter and circulation pump lots of flow
5. Lighting and duration: both run 8 hours
6. Substrate: 60 gallons plain sand 20 gallon aquasoil
7. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing: no CO2 and EI dosing
8. Fertilizers used + Ratios: just dry fertilizers and
9. Water change regime and composition: 50% weekly
10. Plant list: 20 gallon several species of cryptocoryne, buce, aponogeton crispus red, pearl weed and various mosses mixed together. 60 gallon sesiflora, aponogetons, several species of cryptocoryne and jungle val that's barely doing anything
11. Inhabitant: 20 gallon shrimp and snails 60 gallons tetras, spiny eel, and angel fish
12. Full tank shot & Surface image. They look so bad and I'm incredibly embarrassed to post them. I suck up as much algae and clean the glass and it comes back before next water change

 

[Cryptocoryne]

I'm sorry if I miss anything I'm very distraught and at a loss for what to do as I have tried about everything

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi @Cryptocoryne,

What fertilizers are you using for Macros and Micros and how much are you dosing.

Your water report looks pretty good to me.

Welcome to UKAPS 🙂

Cheers,
Michael

 

[PARAGUAY]

I see plants that don't look to bad off the pictures,slow growing is what to be expected no CO2. And some are slow growers. I would tell us Moe about your lighting all we know is the duration and maybe try and proved all in one fertiliser like Tropica Specialised, TNC or nuetro+ Some of the fertilisers gurus will help with dry salts on low tech. Surprised at your Hygro Polysmerma though. Welcome to the forum

 

[Cryptocoryne]

Well the par values for 60 gallon is 25 at substrate and same for 20 gallon. I'm using the EI fertilizer package from nilcog dosing at water change. Usteriana always ends up with curled tips

 

[MichaelJ]

I'm using the EI fertilizer package from nilcog dosing at water change

Which nilocg package (link?) and how much do you dose after/at the 50% water change? ... the fertilizer specialists around here will need that info in order to provide the best possible advise 🙂

Cheers,
Michael

 

[tigertim]

If your dosing EI levels and have high light you really opught to be adding Co2, another thing have you got any nurients in the substrate ? i find this a must.

 

[Cryptocoryne]

Which nilocg package (link?) and how much do you dose after/at the 50% water change? ... the fertilizer specialists around here will need that info in order to provide the best possible advise 🙂

Cheers,
Michael

Estimative Index (EI) Aquarium Nutrients Package - Jars sorry it was this fertilizer. I dose based on the EI directions on the back which is 1/2tsp kno3 1/8th tsp for kh2po4, k2so4 and micros. For the 20 gallon it's 1/4tsp kno3 and 1/16th tsp for the rest

 

[Cryptocoryne]

If your dosing EI levels and have high light you really opught to be adding Co2, another thing have you got any nurients in the substrate ? i find this a must.

No no root tabs yet but I have just made my own waiting for them to dry

 

[MichaelJ]

I dose based on the EI directions on the back which is 1/2tsp kno3 1/8th tsp for kh2po4, k2so4 and micros. For the 20 gallon it's 1/4tsp kno3 and 1/16th tsp for the rest

Thanks @Cryptocoryne for the details...

Just a super quick follow up.....

So you add that after each 50% WC, correct?

Just to translate these quantities into the sort of numbers that people around the world can relate to:

1 US tsp (tea spoon) = 4.93 grams.

In the 60 US gallon is 227 Liters:

1/2 tsp of KNO3 = 2.46 grams.
1/8 tsp of KH2PO4, K2SO4 and the micros = 0.61 grams.

For the 20 US Gallon is 75 Liters:

1/4 tsp of KNO3 = 1.23 grams.
1/16 tsp of KH2PO4, K2SO4 and the micros = 0.3 grams.

Here are the specs for the Ferts that @Cryptocoryne is using:

KNO3 Guaranteed Analysis:

• KNO3 13.7-0-46
• Total Nitrogen(N) - 13.7%
• 13.7% Nitrate Nitrogen
• Soluble Potash(K2O) - 46%

K2SO4 Guaranteed Analysis:

• K2SO4 0-0-52
• Soluble Potash (K2O) - 52%
• Sulfur (S) - 18%

KH2PO4 Guaranteed Analysis:

• KH2PO4 0-52-34
• Available Phosphate(P2O5) - 52%
• Soluble Potash(K2O) - 34%

GLA EDTA Micromix Guaranteed Analysis:

• Magnesium (Mg) - 1.5%
• Chelated Iron (actual) (Fe) - 7.0%
• Chelated Manganese (actual) (Mn) - 2.0%
• Chelated Zinc (actual) (Zn) - 0.4%
• Chelated Copper (actual) (Cu) - 0.1%
• Molybdenum (actual) (Mo) - 0.6%
• Boron (actual) (B) - 3.8%
• EDTA (Ethylene diamine tetraacetate) - 65.4%

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Cryptocoryne]

Thanks @Cryptocoryne for the details...

Just a super quick follow up.....

So you add that after each 50% WC, correct?

Just to translate these quantities into the sort of numbers that people around the world can relate to:

1 US tsp (tea spoon) = 4.93 grams.

In the 60 US gallon (227 Liter):

1/2 tsp of KNO3 = 2.46 grams.
1/8 tsp of KH2PO4, K2SO4 and the micros = 0.61 grams.

For the 20 US Gallon (75 Liter)

1/2 tsp of KNO3 = 1.23 grams.
1/16 tsp of KH2PO4, K2SO4 and the micros = 0.3 grams.

Here are the specs for the Ferts that @Cryptocoryne is using:

KNO3 Guaranteed Analysis:

• KNO3 13.7-0-46
• Total Nitrogen(N) - 13.7%
• 13.7% Nitrate Nitrogen
• Soluble Potash(K2O) - 46%

K2SO4 Guaranteed Analysis:

• K2SO4 0-0-52
• Soluble Potash (K2O) - 52%
• Sulfur (S) - 18%

KH2PO4 Guaranteed Analysis:

• KH2PO4 0-52-34
• Available Phosphate(P2O5) - 52%
• Soluble Potash(K2O) - 34%

GLA EDTA Micromix Guaranteed Analysis:

• Magnesium (Mg) - 1.5%
• Chelated Iron (actual) (Fe) - 7.0%
• Chelated Manganese (actual) (Mn) - 2.0%
• Chelated Zinc (actual) (Zn) - 0.4%
• Chelated Copper (actual) (Cu) - 0.1%
• Molybdenum (actual) (Mo) - 0.6%
• Boron (actual) (B) - 3.8%
• EDTA (Ethylene diamine tetraacetate) - 65.4%

Cheers,
Michael

Yes right after the change. thank you for this!

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi @Cryptocoryne,

So this is what your dosing:


60 Gallon tank: Assuming your targeting the whole tank (227 l) after 50% WC:

KNO3: NO3 6.7, N 1.5, K 4.2
KH2PO4: PO4 1.88, P 0.6, K 0.77
K2SO4: K 1.21, S 0.5

Macros In short: N 1.5, P 0.6, K 6.

With micros I only did the math for Iron - again assuming your targeting the 227l, with your 0.6 gram you're getting 0.19 ppm of Fe weekly.

For a low tech tank this seems to be fine to me.

20 Gallon tank: Assuming your targeting the whole tank (75 l) after 50% WC:

KNO3: NO3 10, N 2.3, K 6.3
KH2PO4: PO4 2.8, P 0.9, K 1.2
K2SO4: K 1.8, S 0.75

In short: N 2.3 P 0.9 K 9.3.

Again, with micros I only did the math for Iron - again assuming your targeting the 75l, with your 0.3 gram you're getting 0.28 ppm of Fe weekly.

Not sure why your dosing higher in your 20 Gallon tank.

Well, for both tanks, unless my calculations are way off, I dont see any glaring omissions or anything in serious short supply. Your tap water gives you at least 21 ppm of Calcium and 6 ppm of Magnesium (and sone Nitrate and Phosphorus as well) so that should be all good. As a matter of fact, many of us around here would kill for tap water like that! - Unless something very sinister is going on with your tap water, you should be very happy with your tap water.

It looks to me you have an enormous amount of dirt in these tanks. There is algae and dirt build up on the glass, heater and hardscape (and perhaps filters) - clean all that up! If possible, give the substrate a gentle vacuuming without disturbing it too much. Do a couple of really large water changes like 70% the next couple of weeks. Get rid of dying leaves, they will not recover and only stall progress.

Judging from the first 3 pictures, many of the plants look quite good actually - the forth picture (I assume the 20 Gl tank) looks in despair to be honest but its going to be easier to judge after a good cleanup.

And keep us posted! We are all rooting for your tanks! 🙂

Cheers,
Michael

 

[xZaiox]

It looks to me you have an enormous amount of dirt in these tanks. There is algae and dirt build up on the glass, heater and hardscape (and perhaps filters) - clean all that up!

Agreed. OP, you seem to have a lot of green spot algae on the glass, it can be quite stubborn to remove, but I find it comes off incredibly easy with a razor blade. I personally use Seachem's 46cm 'algae scraper' simply because I like the long handle, but any razor blade will work - it's completely fine to use on glass aquariums (not acrylic), and won't scratch provided you use even pressure flat against the glass, and don't get anything hard like sand caught on the blade. I used to just use melamine sponges (and they do work), but since switching to razor blades I'd never look back, the razors are just so effective. The scraper shears it off in one go.

 

[hypnogogia]

Picture 4 seems to show a lot of diatoms. Is that tank relatively new? You should try to remove these as they smother the plants. I found that using a chop stick and wrapping the diatoms round that work well - similar to wrapping candy floss onto a stick.

 

[MichaelJ]

OP, you seem to have a lot of green spot algae on the glass, it can be quite stubborn to remove, but I find it comes off incredibly easy with a razor blade.

Yes, that totally works as well. When I occasionally give the interior a shrub down (I rarely need to do so), I do it during WC, drain a bit of water and go to town with a course sponge (that I never used for anything else... )... I know it scares the crap out of my livestock, but it hurt me more than it hurt them I tell myself.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[MichaelJ]

wrapping candy floss onto a stick.

 

[Cryptocoryne]

Picture 4 seems to show a lot of diatoms. Is that tank relatively new? You should try to remove these as they smother the plants. I found that using a chop stick and wrapping the diatoms round that work well - similar to wrapping candy floss onto a stick.

Not new but I did have the filter on that one die recently and switched to sponge.

 

[Cryptocoryne]

Hi @Cryptocoryne,

So this is what your dosing:


60 Gallon tank: Assuming your targeting the whole tank (227 l) after 50% WC:

KNO3: NO3 6.7, N 1.5, K 4.2
KH2PO4: PO4 1.88, P 0.6, K 0.77
K2SO4: K 1.21, S 0.5

Macros In short: N 1.5, P 0.6, K 6.

With micros I only did the math for Iron - again assuming your targeting the 227l, with your 0.6 gram you're getting 0.19 ppm of Fe weekly.

For a low tech tank this seems to be fine to me.

20 Gallon tank: Assuming your targeting the whole tank (75 l) after 50% WC:

KNO3: NO3 10, N 2.3, K 6.3
KH2PO4: PO4 2.8, P 0.9, K 1.2
K2SO4: K 1.8, S 0.75

In short: N 2.3 P 0.9 K 9.3.

Again, with micros I only did the math for Iron - again assuming your targeting the 75l, with your 0.3 gram you're getting 0.28 ppm of Fe weekly.

Not sure why your dosing higher in your 20 Gallon tank.

Well, for both tanks, unless my calculations are way off, I dont see any glaring omissions or anything in serious short supply. Your tap water gives you at least 21 ppm of Calcium and 6 ppm of Magnesium (and sone Nitrate and Phosphorus as well) so that should be all good. As a matter of fact, many of us around here would kill for tap water like that! - Unless something very sinister is going on with your tap water, you should be very happy with your tap water.

It looks to me you have an enormous amount of dirt in these tanks. There is algae and dirt build up on the glass, heater and hardscape (and perhaps filters) - clean all that up! If possible, give the substrate a gentle vacuuming without disturbing it too much. Do a couple of really large water changes like 70% the next couple of weeks. Get rid of dying leaves, they will not recover and only stall progress.

Judging from the first 3 pictures, many of the plants look quite good actually - the forth picture (I assume the 20 Gl tank) looks in despair to be honest but its going to be easier to judge after a good cleanup.

And keep us posted! We are all rooting for your tanks! 🙂

Cheers,
Michael

Actually a few years ago we had Ford dumping chemicals straight into the ground and it ended up in our water supply and a class action lawsuit. Not sure if we're feeling the effects of that yet. I was thinking of asking in local groups if others have issues as even the lfs plants stopped looking good

 

[MichaelJ]

Actually a few years ago we had Ford dumping chemicals straight into the ground and it ended up in our water supply and a class action lawsuit. Not sure if we're feeling the effects of that yet. I was thinking of asking in local groups if others have issues as even the lfs plants stopped looking good

While all this is possible and super serious... - 3M have been doing the same here in MN for a lifetime and we are coming down hard on them, really hard! - I do not think we should blame the Ford Motor Company for the troubles with your tank at this juncture. Lets stay on the ball.... which reminds me that kick off is 5:30 central.... Go Eagles!

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Cryptocoryne]

While all this is possible and super serious... - 3M have been doing the same here in MN for a lifetime and we are coming down hard on them, really hard! - I do not think we should blame the Ford Motor Company for the troubles with your tank at this juncture. Lets stay on the ball.... which reminds me that kick off is 5:30 central.... Go Eagles!

Cheers,
Michael

Go eagles!