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Help Please - New Aquarium (after not being in the hobby for 3 years)

Adam Chambers

Adam Chambers

Member
Joined
3 Aug 2016
Messages
149
Location
Bodicote, Banbury
Hello everyone,

Firstly, hello to all of you. I have been here before but only lurking really. Hope you have all been well as it has been a number of years now since I have been in the hobby.

I am looking to get back into the aquatic scene now that life has settled down and I have been in my new home for the last 18 months.

I am looking to buy a complete set-up for a heavily planted community tank (previous have only done a 350 litre low tech with old T8 bulbs and no C02 a Fluval Edge Betta and a small puffer tank) so have a lot of questions etc that I am needing some help with answering but for now it's the hardware.

I have a maximum space of 2m footprint to place the tank in but this would be massive for the room so am looking to get something anywhere between 1.2m to 1.5m in length. depth between 0.5m to 0.6m (to maximise aquascape options) and height isn't an issue. This would give me between 250 & 400 litre depending on exact tank selected.

Due to the cost and setup I will be looking to do this via finance so will have to all be from one shop for the larger parts of this build (tank, lights, filter, C02 kit) so this will limit my build a little. Currently been looking through the Charterhouse Aquatics site as they seem to have a great tank selection but once that is made up I can check other online stores.

Aquarium Tank & Stand
With this in mind I have been looking at the Eheim Proxima Plus 325. It is open topped and comes with the LED lights right from the get go. My only thought here though is I could buy the normal Eheim Proxima 325 and spend what monies I save on getting some lights that would be able to day/night cycle (it's about £400 cheaper but the actual tank and stand are the same) and I would have a lid and T5 light unit spare for future. Thoughts on this?

Lighting (assuming not with tank)
If I did go down the LED lights being separate, what options are there? I don't mind bar or tile systems as long as they are ceiling hung or can be mounted to a floor stand. I only want to go this route if I can get something that has a day/night cycle available.

Filter
Filter wise I was originally going to go for an Eheim Pro III thermal 2180 as I have had a Pro II but I don't like the three tube set-up they have taken with them. No point having a lovely rimless tank and then hundreds of tubes visible. So with that I am pretty set on trying out the Fluval G6 filter. I want to pair this up with some stainless steel inlet/outlet so any recommendations there?

Heater
Assuming no one persuades me to buy the Eheim 2180 instead of the G6 what heater would you all recommend. I really wanted to try the Hydor external but it seems to have had a few rough years with issues including one that I read shot to 42 degree and killed all the fish!! But someone stated that they have sorted them and are OK now? Again want to try and keep the tank minimal.

C02
I have no idea about this, I was looking at the ADA kit but I don't know how it works, do I need a bigger bottle for the larger tank? Do I get all the parts and just buy a tank local (what tank do I need?) any help on this would be greatly appreciated. This is the sort of thing I wish I knew someone local with a setup so I could either see theirs or ask them to come help when the time arises.

UV
There is so much info on this and it has all got confusing. The biggest report I get is although it is not a prevention measure for algae but a band-aid it does generally keep the water clearer so are they worth the cost for that and is there a preferred brand. Again I know Eheim but they appear low wattage compared to most the others considering their size?

Powerhead
In regards to this, I had one even on my low tech as I felt the flow was always low from the filter. This appears to only be more critical and the more the better pretty much. With that in mind I was looking at the Hydor koralia gen 3 9000. Although that would be roughly 20x water movement so would the gen 3 5000 be a better option really and not quite such overkill?

Substrate
I know this is really not hardware but it is key to going with everything. With the above and the premise that I am going to try and do a heavily planted tank of some sort I have read that ADA Aquasoil is spot on, I can put it in, fully plant up and leave it to almost cycle itself for 3 weeks or so due to the Ammonia release creating a fishless cycle and the plants helping the filtration (info from thegreenmachine & UKAPS forum). Do I need to mix anything with this, do I need a base layer or topping layer with Aquasoil?

I think that covers where I am at really but just a quick breakdown of current thoughts on hardware then for a reminder if you have made it this far and now can't remember what was said first as I ramble though ten thousand thoughts.

Aquarium - Eheim Proxima Plus 325
Lighting - With tank (unless otherwise as above)
Filter - Fluval G6 or Eheim 2180 thermal
Inlet/Outlet - Stainless Steel
Heater - Hydor External (unless otherwise suggested)
C02 - ADA kit (or otherwise parts specified)
UV - Eheim/Different Brand/Not Needed (depending on feedback)
Powerhead - Hydor Koralia Gen 3 (5000 or 9000 depending on feedback)
Substrate - ADA Aquasoil (anything else needed? Other recommendations)

If you made it this far and read all the post then thank you and I hope I haven't bored you all. Look forward to catching up with you all in the near future.

Kind Regards,

Adam
 
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Further to the above I have also been looking at the Ecotech Radion XR15FW lights with hanging wires. I understand I would need 3 lights but this would allow me to make a proper 24 hour cycle, they look good and are only £300 more than the Eheim LED lights.

I saw an old post on here about them so have asked questions there too but any help here as an overall would be handy on opinions.

Cheers all for any feedback.
 
Hi Adam, newish to planted tanks myself - lucky you have a some experience in the past!
There are helpful sections on both on ukaps which might be worth a look & also the tutorials ☺

A tank is glass & silicone & a cabinet, craftsmanship - so style is up to you! Although a very deep tank means distance from the light to the substrate is larger which can make growing carpets harder.

10x flow is considered the most beneficial to a planted tank to ensure nutrients reach all areas within the tank - more so with co2 enriched tanks! This can be achieved using a variety of filters with spraybars/lily pipes or power heads - again depends on the asthetic look you want to achieve balanced with practicalities :) Flow loses more momentum in a larger tank than a small one so I think 20x flow doesn't sound like overkill.

I don't use a uv sterilizer, I don't think it's considered a necessity, but there would be no reason not to if you wanted. Some ukaps members use then I've noticed but not all. Removing sources of ammonia from the (siphoning dead plant matter and dead leaves) and regular water changes are cheaper! Its also popular to use certain algae eating livestock (ottocinculus, amano shrimp, nerite snails).

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-soil-substrate-or-dirted-planted-tank-a-how-to-guide.18943/ ... a good guide worth a read with reference to substrate choice :)

The only thing you didn't mention was ferts, if you have a co2 enriched high light tank your plants are likely to grow faster and it may be a good idea to consider what type of fertilizing regime you want - again check out the aquarium fert dosing section!

You've planned thing well so far - usually a recipe for success! Good luck :)
 
Hi there Manisha,

Thank you for the detailed reply and information :)

I am busy trying to read through all the main sticky topics and making notes etc at the moment to get back through the basics and then will delve deeper over the next few weeks with more on the details of high-tech and C02, Ferts and the like.

I guess I am just making sure there are no real issues with the tanks I am looking at when it comes to build quality and the like. But you are right, the two major choices have already been narrowed down to either the Eheim I posted about or the EA Aquascaper 1500 which is a massive 495l compared tot he 325l of the Eheim for pretty much the same price.

And looks like it will be the Hydor Koralia 9000 for either tank which on it's own offers between 18x and 27x flow (tank dependant) and I assume I can adjust the flow rate as needed.

Amano shrimp was going to a big part of this tank. And well maybe I will give the UV a miss for now and add it later if I feel just to try in 6 months time once I know the tank is already stable etc first. This would at least to me clarify if it really does help just polish the water then.

Will give that a good detailed read on substrate and someone has suggested that B&Q top soil once washed is very good for a lot less monies to the ADA.

In regards to ferts, I am not wanting super high tech and too much work so honestly am looking to do minimal CO2 and to use some Tropica Plantgrow specialised liquid fert to start with. And place some Tropica Aquacare capsules as well. But this is really as I know that I won't be on top of mixing and routine for dry fert mixes as I am only home 4 days out of 7.

Thank you for the kind words as I am sure I will need it. :)
 
Your welcome, apologies for leaving bits out - they're the bits I'm not familiar - but definitely if you have a query (your light set up for example) Start your own thread and more helpful members with more experience with that set up can give some feedback & advice!
 
Thank you again for the answer. I have chatted to a few more people and on some other forums and so have sorted out my order for the following;
  • Aquarium - Evolution Aqua 1500+ tank and cabinet (no side cut outs to cabinet as everything will be through rear of cab instead due to position in room). This tank should be awesome at 1500x60x55 (LxWxH) and 15mm super white glass. Gloss Plum is the likely finish but keeping gloss clean is a pain. Got plenty of time to decided that though and hoping I can see some proper samples prior. I am also going to order some 3mm thick white or clear frosted acrylic cut to size to place in the tank as background to diffuse light so not against rear wall and hide tubing/cables but not give a dark background like the black/blue sheets do.
  • Lighting - Kessil A360WE LED tuna sun with mounting arms and controller/cables (x3 lights as recommended by EA for this tank)
  • Filter - Eheim 2180 thermal with media
  • Inlet/Outlet - TBC once I have decided on filter tube position and setup i.e lilly pipe or spray bar but do want to go Stainless Steel
  • Heater - Not required as built in on filter
  • C02 - Am going to be contacting CO2 Art once tank has arrived for setup
  • UV - leaving for time to see how things run
  • Powerhead - Hydor Koralia Gen 3 9000
  • Substrate - Caribsea Eco-complete as didn't have any ADA in stock and best they could offer which they discounted for me.

There a few odd bits I brought to go with such as Seachem Prime Conditioner and Flourish Tabs to help establish the plants later as well as a few tools just to help with setup although will pick the aqua scape tools off amazon or ebay due to cost.

Will keep this updated initially and once ready I will start a journal if people will be interested.

Regards,

Adam
 
Substrate - EC is nothing like the aquasoils so consider this thoroughly - it's not something easily changed out on a tank this size
If you do go EC, be sure to use a nutrient rich base such as Tropica Growth Substrate
I set up my smaller tank with Tropica GS + Tropica AquaSoil (video link broken on that page, but easily found on their Utube ), after a couple months I ripped out my EC over GS & now set up all my tanks with this system (note Soil Powder is much easier to plant in than the non-powder version (typical of the various branded aquasoils) so either use this as an upper layer or just use the Powder as substrate).
I prefer Tropica over ADA as the latter are much softer texture (can be quite the MUD if you get a poor lot) - in contrast, my Tropica Powder cleans up "like new" after 18 months use.

EC can be quite variable in color/texture - it can have a lot of the glittery "fines" that do eventually sink down, but will reappear when you move plants etc)

Given the depth of this tank, I'd be inclined to use both sand & aquasoil zones ... either can be syphoned out later should you change your mind.


This is an amazing tank (I assume you've seen George Farmer's EA journal) but it's also considerable expense to plant up heavily & not so easy to control if you get the algae invasion ... if you've not done much in high tech planted I'd encourage you to get some practise in on a smaller scale - then use this as a hospital/quarantine tank down the line ... an ADA 45P or 60P will easily fit into the EA tank cabinet later on (depending on what sort of fish you like, a 60cm tank is much more practical for quarantine purposes than a 45cm).



Adam Chambers said:
if people will be interested.
Click to expand...
:lol: I suspect that interest will be intense :D

Eheim Pro 4 series has some nice improvements - you might contact Eheim & see if they will be bringing out this size in the 4 series
(I have 2 series 3 filters, picked up a 4 filter & once I finally got around to setting it up, wanted to convert all my 3's over :oops: ... haven't done of course (but then Christmas is not so long now ;)))

Fertilizers - again with a tank this size & until you've got it well established, I'd go with a commercial series (Tropica has decent pricing on their 5litre sizes)
Pedro Rosa's Tropica sponsored Dutch Style Aquarium (120 x 50 x 50 tank) - you might look at his other journals done in this tank.

Note the density of planting that is done from the start on these tanks, regardless of final plant species desired, begin tank with a good number of fast growing "auxiliary" plants as these will ease the transition period (Tropica's website is well worth studying in detail)

Once established, tank will be much more resilient re playing with light, CO2, fertilizers



Adam Chambers said:
but do want to go Stainless Steel
Click to expand...
my choice as well (not that I actually have any ;) ) but outlet shape is quite limited, check inflow mechanics as well (hole number, position, inlet/outlet heights etc)

Light - excellent choice, not economic but will do anything you could want (note Kessil controller does not support smart phone control)


Adam Chambers said:
no side cut outs to cabinet
Click to expand...
If this is an option, I'd actually have these machined in so that cabinet is more versatile

While Plum will look stunning, some of the other finishes will show fingerprints or scratches much less

Background plans sound great :)
(I have an ADA Mist tank, & the frosted glass back is fantastic - wish the sides had been left clear though)

CO2 - consider inline or reactor or multiple intank diffusers

Powerhead - I'd choose 2 -3 smaller units rather than a single high flow unit (look at Interzoo 2016 reports as I believe there were some new small footprint pumps introduced) as this will works more effectively around hardscapes

Note that you don't need high flow in planted tanks, only good flow!
 
Thank you for the reply and the details you have outlined below.

In regards to the substrate, I did have a long chat to aqua essentials as I have used them for plants before and found them pretty unbiased and they are the ones who suggested to switch to EC. They did suggest adding Aquasoil Powder which they stock so once I start getting the equipment here I will sort that out as well. I can always return the EC should plans change prior to anything as I have a month before the tank will even be built but at least with something ordered it can be switched out.

There is currently no plans for a larger Pro4 from what they have said to me so the Pro 3 seems the compromise, and I had the Pro 2 last time so was always a generation behind ;) but thank you for the heads up. I did consider 2 Pro 4 600's but wanted to minimise the tubing and they don't have built in heaters that I wanted to try too.

In regards to ferts, cheers I will be looking this up in detail over the next month to see best way to go and also a reason I want to talk to CO2 Art when the time comes. And I am in no rush to get this setup, won't expect any hardscape in even till October to be honest while I research further. Thank you for the link and the tips. I did see that Tropica have a 68 page document to read through about all this as well that is meant to be worth a read at some point.

And yeah stainless steel inlet/outlets do seem hard to come by or even research about, might even think about making my own on that front. Any input on brands to check out would be appreciated.

The lights are based on the jurnel that George done and recommendation from Jeremy at EA. The only thing that is a shame with the Kessil setup is the lack of wifi but the other options are much more expensive or just don't appear as good overall as options.

In regards to the cut outs, Jeremy said they should be able to accommodate as they make the holes in the side in-house. I can always cut and finish my own at a later date. The plum is design asthetics of course and honestly I am not a huge fan of gloss cause the reasons you have stated, but the matt colours are a little 'plain' shall we say although the super-matt anthracite looks good I have grey carpet and it might start going all '50 shades of grey' in the room haha

Cheers for the background plan, am ordering a few sheets of different finish in A4 size to see what I like with the light against and then will order a full sheet accordingly.

With regards further to CO2 as said above, will call and have a detailed chat to CO2 Art to discuss soon once I have more idea on planting and to see what is best for tank of this size.

The powerhead was a compromise really as I want to minimise as much in the tank as possible and with having two intakes from the Eheim and then running the single outlet and powerhead am hoping to balance the flow. There was the Maxspect Gyre Generator that principally seemed pretty cool but the size and cost put me off. If it looked better than a plastic cylinder (which I know shouldn't be important) it might have been worth a try.

And thanks again for all the little points and information sources throughout your post.

Regards,

Adam
 
Oh in regards to the smaller tank, I will have one but its going to be for quarantine as you say. I don't have a huge experience with high tech but a few months to research and adjust plans. Support from here and maybe a few replants to get it right and I will be there I hope.

I will see if I can get ahold of EA to sell me a EAReef 450 tank as dims are 450x500x450 (LxWxH) which would fit nicely in the stand. At least then it's all the same look and design and would be nice I feel to keep it's aesthetics matching even if it is under the tank. Update while typing: I have just spoken to Charterhouse and they are going to check about this for me and price.

I have priced up the Tropica Aquasoil & Powder along with about 100kg of mini landscape rock at around £700 so looks like I will be saving towards this next then. I can't find anyone who I normally use selling Tropica ferts in 5l tubs but will try general places for that.

I have read the 11 page journal so thank you and I have dropped a few questions to confirm to the OP there as well.

Regards,

Adam
 
Adam Chambers said:
Tropica ferts in 5l
Click to expand...
any shop that brings in Tropica can special order this for you, pick up both the specialized & premium if going this route

Adam Chambers said:
I will see if I can get ahold of EA , I'd to sell me a EAReef 450 tank as dims are 450x500x450 (LxWxH) which would fit nicely in the stand.
Click to expand...
this is a nice tank size - at least for people it's as good as (if not better esthetics) than a 60cm tank - not quite the same from a fish standpoint so take that into account when quarantining fish .. much depends on the sort of fish you like to keep (wild caught fish can be very different than tank bred)
A major factor when quarantining/treating fish is stress level (stress depresses fish immune system)

Although 2 filters does mean extra tubes, I'd go this route on a larger tank (not an uncommon choice), it's just more versatile & conservative (unlikely to have both filters pack it in at the same time) - obviously you can mix Pro 3 & Pro 4 (depending on ambient temperature, the 210 watts may be sufficient ie single T filter ... note that some of the 3T models have issues with pump head leakage & then heater failure ... NOT using the Prime button will lesson the likelihood of the leakage (I believe Victor Lantos comments on the incidence))
 
With the thought being Rainbows and similar with smaller shoal of fish such as Harlequins or Congo Tetras. I would think that a tank that is 50cm rather than 60cm should work OK. It was more that the 60cm cube is too large they do and felt this was a small compromise and although Rainbow obviously like longer tanks for swimming length my plan is to buy them young/small and let them grow with the tank.

And yeah I weighed up the option. I can borrow a friends spare FX5 if anything happens to the filter while I get it sorted under warranty and should anything change with Eheim and Pro 4 I will look to upgrade then.

My homes ambient is 22-24 degree year round without the heating on and there are no drafts or doors/windows near by that are left open either so don't think I need to do a massive amount of heating on this tank once it's up to temp.

Will always add an inline heater later if needed.

Regards,

Adam
 
Update:

They have suggested that the Hydor powerhead will be a while so I did some more research and have decided to give the Jecod RW15 wavemaker a go, it is £40 cheaper too.

The substrate has been removed from order so I will order all my Tropica stuff from Aqua Essentials as I already have account with them. Looking to be 5 bags of Aquasoil, 3 bags of Powder. They do the 5l bottles at £99 but out stock and was looking at 100kg of mini landscape rock.

Wood I am still deciding on what but likely to be Redmoor as it is easy to get ahold of. Plants still looking through and planning at moment.

So far basket is £550 for the substrate and rock with another £200 for the liquid ferts. But still plenty of time to work through. Am now busy reading the journals and noting ideas for aquascaping.

Regards,

Adam
 
Hi all,
Adam Chambers said:
They do the 5l bottles at £99, but out stock
Click to expand...
Adam Chambers said:
with another £200 for the liquid ferts
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with the <"Tropica fertiliser"> and it will provide all the nutrients your plants need, but it is a really expensive option.

Plants can only take up mineral nutrients as ions, and it doesn't matter which compound that potassium (K+), nitrate (NO3-) or phosphate (PO4---) ion came from, they are <"all the same">.

If you buy dry salts as an <"all in one mix"> from one of our sponsors (other sponsors are available) you will save a lot of money.

At <"James' Planted Tank">, there is a recipe for how to make your own DIY "all in one" mix.

cheers Darrel
 
Cheers Darrel for the heads up.

Still plenty of reading to do, was just looking at simplicity at the time but an "all in one mix" sounds like a good shout too. Having a look through the site and seeing the price for the options there, this certainly seems like a shout to try.

I actually remember seeing James' post a few years back although it looks to be updated. I suppose if I made up the All-In-One solution then that is 10 weeks approx based on the dose suggested so just need to work out costs really and make sure I stick to the weekly routine.

Regards,

Adam
 
Well I am reading up on all the journals and posts about EI and other options for dosing so will get somewhere soon. The only good thing I noted is the recommendation from Tropica to dose weekly that is easier for me as I am often away 3 days at a time with work and staying at partners house.

I suppose I could also consider an automatic dosing system if I can get something to look clean with the tank.

Thanks for another awesome link Alto, will take a detailed read through, the plants from initial flick through look amazing though and certainly some I want to try there.

Regards,

Adam
 
So now that my order has been confirmed and is looking to be about 3-4 weeks until the tank is built and everything else that wasn't in stock is now on order from Charterhouse. Aquarium colour still to be decided but will be either Ultra Gloss Plum or Super-Matt Anthracite. White is too plain and I need to paint the walls brilliant white as everything is magnolia at moment!! (new build house).

In them meantime I have ordered some acrylic samples (only 150x150mm) which that means I can place them all in the back of the tank at same time and compare how they look with the light against them and in the tank with water in. I will place some greenery in there temporary to compare although won't be a plant I am keeping (will buy something local that I can chuck away after).

See attached image of the colours ordered. Although I am leaning towards a lighter colour I thought it would be best to try some darker colours too.

6pkIrDe.jpg


Beginning of September I will order some Stainless steel lilly pipe and intake pipes and some clear 17/22mm tubing for the filter. This should clean the look up and mean that although intake and outlet are visible they should look pretty good.

Then come start October it will be the hardscape/ and ordering of plants. So yeah will be long term with slow updates afraid just due to costs really. But it will get there and should be up and running by December (ish).

Thanks again to everyone who has commented so far. Will start journal once I see a dispatch note and things start arriving :)

Regards,

Adam
 
It has been hard work finding stainless steel intake/outlet pipes.

The cheapest ones that look OK are around £42 a pair (from eBay and lack of info) so would need to order two sets and I have no idea on the steel grade, ideally they should be 316 SS. I wonder if a local fabricator could make something similar with a full length pipe to go under cab once I get the tank and confirm measurements as this is something that can be switched out relatively easy later on.

Regards,

Adam
 
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