Goldfish vs Lillie's?

[Smells Fishy]

For a couple of years now I've wanted to give Lillie's a shot and the two I fancy trying are the banana and tiger lotus. The stems and leaves seem tough but really I have no idea. Recently I bought a pot of echinodorus bleheri and my black moor ripped off one of the smaller leafs with in the first night and there's also small tears in other leaves. I bought it because it looks like a tough plant but obviously not around goldfish. I have all the standard plants associated with goldfish and its anubias that rates highest but still has tears. I've had the Nana about 2years and barteri over a year with steady growth. I'm a bit fed up with my plants that's all and want something in a pot with substrate and so its not fired about I'll top it with gravel.

If anyone can tell me how those two will do that would be great thanks.

 

[zozo]

Goldfish are diggers and substrate shifters, they take a mouth full of substrate sift it and throw it back next to the place they took it up. I've seen them creating piles of substrate and seen them dig away piles i made.. Funny to see how substrate moves around with the fish and gets constantly reshaped. 🙂 I have lilies in the pond together with 5 goldfish, it's not that the lilie gets eaten, it's more to make sure that a young and small unestablished lilie not get pooked out of the substrate again.

It depends a little bit on the substrate yo are planning to use, i'm already thinking a long time now "How to scape a goldfish tank".. Small graind substrate is not ideal, to large and plants don't like to grow in it. I still not came very much further than larger riverpebbles to prevent them from shifting everything around.

When it comes to lilies i not sure about a few tropical varieties used in aquarium trade, which have rather a soft leaf in submersed form. I actualy never grew them, that's what i judge from seeing pictures and see in the LFS. I grow small pond lilies in my tanks the same i also grow in the pond, they have a bit harder leaves it seems. They are ok with the goldfish and don't get eaten, just made sure they can't be dug up. Once they are established and have a rather extensive spreaded rootsystem even the digging is ok.

 

[Smells Fishy]

Cheers for the reply zozo.

The Lillie's that you use what sort of lighting do you give them? It must be pretty good in order to match up to the outdoor sunshine. Crap reply, misses is rushing me for the internet.



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[zozo]

🙂 Indoors i grow them under DIY led lights even got one to flower last winter.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/i-think-i-am-in-love.37099/page-3#post-424074

I do not know how to compare this to any other lights, no idea how to determine the intensity i guessit's at the high side with totaly about 40 watt different white spectrums and a full spectrum. But it's more flow you would need to worry about.. Submersed they also grow under low light and diffucultly float and don't flower if flow is to strong.

The other 2 i'm growing are in low tech, 1 which at the moment only gets natural light from above.. Is still very young and has yet no floaters. The other also still a tiny baby gets very low led light and also grows.

So in my experience light aint such a big deal to grow them. Actualy in nature they grow in muddy and murky rather stagnant ponds and still manage to shoot floaters to the surface with barely receiving light in the spring time..

 

[Smells Fishy]

Nice read. I've defenetly got a lot more to learn about lighting, DIY LED lighting is new to me. My lighting isn't anything special just a 6w hidom LED and a 25w hidom light with x2 8w? white t5, I did have a blue but that needs replacing.

Thought i would ask you some questions since your the only person interested. So your Lillie's how old are they? And how long can they live for? Do you or have you ever rested yours? I know bulb plants in nature go through a dry period but is it necessary for all aquarium bulb plants? Also if the bulbs planted in a substrate and you wanted to rest it, wouldn't its roots extend far into the aquarium? If so I imagine this makes the job impossible if you want to keep your tank looking nice (other plants pulled up, substrate everywhere, water quality melt down, dead fish etc).

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[zozo]

🙂 How long can they live for? I guess for ever, since they propagate by runners and seeds.
I actualy never grew tropical aquarium lilies from the lfs like tiger lotus or that somewhat tropica taiwan dunno.. I have a small pond and have a few in there for years.. In outdoor climate with winters they go into dormancy. The bulbs are very hardy and can withstand very low temperaturs . But from origine i guess most of them if not all are tropical.. Even the so called european/north american natives might be from tropical origine, who knows how many thousands of years they roam the planet with us.. Can't tell. 🙂 But they are already cultivated since dawn of time.

The one in my high tech tank is the first one i permantly grow indoors and is already since last year march growing indoors and doesn't go into dormancy and is a cultivar.. So my best guess is for all nympheae it's temp and or light hours related. I'm around 10 hour light periode above my tank 8 hours 100%, permanently so i never tried anything shorter and it just keeps on growing and propagating. So i have no experience with shorter periodes indoors.. You might want to ask people who grow zenkeri and what their experiences are. But as far as i know there is no need to rest them in tropical conditions.. 🙂

They can take a lot of punishment as long as the bulb doesn't rot and stays moist it keeps on being fertile.

Their rootsystem is huge, but this goes for all big plants with lots of foliage, it usaual is as big bellow the substrate as it is above. 🙂

But note a lilie is something for years to come.. depending on its age it can take some time before they fully establish.. The ones from the LFS are usualy rather young plants which need a lot of time to mature.. Pond lilies are usualy sold much more mature.. But only few pond lily cultivars are aquarium suitable.. I found mine at ebay from a lily nursery.. In regular pond shops the pymaea Helvola and pymaea Alba are about it, the rest gets to big.

At the time i'm experimenting with a Burgundy princess in a 110 litre low tech tank.. Which actualy should be to big.. But hey it's cultivating, so i'm trying and no idea where it ends. I think it might do well.. Can't say at the time it's still to young and needs time.. I might be able to tell in a year or 2 because i planted a baby runner from the pond.

 

[Smells Fishy]

Thanks for all the new info, especially regarding Lillie's. I'll check them out on eBay and see what's what. I might end up going down the route of aqua essentials bulb bundle and just see what I can actually grow with munching goldfish. I've been saving coffee jars lately and I think that's what I'm going to use as a pot, got a few different sizes the biggest being 200g. Hope the bulbs are small enough to fit in.

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[zozo]

Why not just take a small piece of slate or a flat river pebble and tie it to the bulb, than even if they dig around it it wont come up and stay in place. 🙂 You could also use rocks to create a pocket and cap it of with smaller pebbles they can not shift.. As long as the bulbs nose sticks out of the substrate it's ok, the new growth will puch through no problem. 🙂 They do not munch from the lily.. 🙂 They dig a lot and move evrything that fits in their mouth.

 

[Smells Fishy]

Yeah man good idea. I've tied my anubias to bogwood and It was a right mission in the end I had to get my partner to help me keep it tight while I wrapped the fishing line around them. It kept coming undone and it took a few trys to get it right. Their must be like 4 or 5 knots and I wrapped the line around the two ALOT. Basically I'm crap at tieing knots and its harder than I thought it would be.

In the past I've created little islands and secured plants in place with some nice rocks from the beach, there's bound to be some crevices so I plug them with gravel but its still no good really because rubbish still accumulates in these areas. That's the main con I think for using gravel; that fish poo and gunk sinks straight through it and gives the impression of being clean, I get round this by only having a very fin layer, sometimes parts of my tank the bottom glass can be seen. Also the goldfish help by syphoning the gravel and firing stuff into the water for my filters to suck up. Where's sand is great for plugging gaps between rocks but needs frequent siphoning or it looks unsightly. Well I suppose depends on what fish you keep as to how clean it looks.

 

[zozo]

I'm crap at tieing knots and its harder than I thought it would be.

I know the problem, especialy if you don't have a few extra hands to help.. I solved the problem with Dyneema line. With any other line the second knot will get tighten and the loop is still to loose to hold. Dyneema is very slippery and the knot will slip on till it's tight. This line is braided and extremely strong, it comes in moss green color in the angler tackle shop and in various thicknes. If you take 0,10mm thicknes in green it's hard to see it back and because is't braided mosses and or algae can grow to it camouflage it even more.