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Fishless fuel with plants

Aitch

New Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
18
Location
Essex UK
Morning everyone.
I'm about to set up a tank from scratch.
I have a bottle of fishless fuel and Fritz turbo 700 to start the cycle.
My question is should I not even bother with the Fritz fishless fuel and just add plants with the turbo start?

If I was to use the ammonia, would the live plants be ok, or shall I wait until I've added the Bacteria?

Regards
Harry
 
Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS.
I have a bottle of fishless fuel and Fritz turbo 700 to start the cycle.
You can add the bacteria, they probably <"won't do any good">, but they definitely won't do any harm. I'll be honest I've got a <"very jaundiced view"> of these products and the people who sell them.
If I was to use the ammonia, would the live plants be ok, or shall I wait until I've added the Bacteria?
I don't recommend <"cycling with ammonia">. If you have a look through <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments........"> it gives a bit of background to the whole <"area of cycling">. I'll cc in @shangman, as she has gone from newbie to accomplished aquarist in a relatively short time period.
I have a bottle of fishless fuel and Fritz turbo 700 to start the cycle.
My question is should I not even bother with the Fritz fishless fuel and just add plants with the turbo start?
Just <"set your filter up">, plant the tank (including some <"floating plants">) and wait. You don't need to add anything (other than plant fertiliser) or measure anything, you just need to change some water.

When "your plant mass has grown in, your tank is fish safe", it is simple as that.

cheers Darrel
 
Ok great thanks for your help!
Once it's all set up il post a pic in the intro section. It's my first aquarium so I want to have a good cycle.
 
Welcome!
What Darrel said is really great advice, when I set up my first aquarium I hadn't found UKAPS yet and followed other internet advice to cycle the tank with ammonia and not do any waterchanges and this was a very bad idea... I ended up killing my first fish.

When you are quite new to keeping tropical fish, it's best to take your time so you can really learn what's going on, understand and appreciate it. The promise of these products (and adding ammonia) is to make the "cycle" go faster so you can add fish sooner, but this misinterprets what we are trying to do when we set up an aquarium.

The most important thing to do is remember that you are setting up a little ecosystem. For the fish to live a healthy happy life, they need an environment that mimics nature and features all sorts of life. The more variety of life, the more stable it will be. You need to help this ecosystem grow and mature before adding your fish. Focusing on helping them grow will make your aquarium much more stable with a significantly lower chance of fish death. Things like the fishless fuel and Fritz turbo 700 are made for impatient people, they do not do the job as well as you can with a little care and time.

The ecosystem involves 2 major players - plants and bacteria, and there are also biofilms with fungi, microscopic creatures. When you set up your aquarium, use lots of live plants. Plants are extremely practical - they consume some of the toxic-to-fish chemicals, provide oxygen, and create a large surface area for the bacteria to grow on - not just the leaves, but the roots too. The plants are also very beautiful, and they will make your fish happier, plants make for a great habitat for your fish.

The bacteria are the second big important thing, which is why the fast-cycling people focus on it. The bacteria are a complex mix which we don't fully understand, think of them like a community themselves. The bacteria also consume the toxic-to-fish chemicals, though unlike with plants when they eat toxins they also consume and deplete oxygen (plants consume oxygen but produce it also, so are not a net negative in oxygen. Your aquarium needs oxygen for everything in it to survive). When you combine the bacteria with plants, they live symbiotically and will make a much more stable and healthy aquarium. If you plant your aquarium, and do weekly 50% waterchanges, you can start to add fish in 6 weeks and be confident that they will thrive, because in those 6 weeks your plants and bacteria colonies can establish themselves so they are "prepared" for some fish. Think of the fish as at the top of a pyramid,with the plants and bacteria below, needed to support the fish. Part of being a tropical fish keeper is also being a plant keeper, it is a really fun part of the hobby to learn, and you can spend these 6 weeks watching your plants grow and learning how to make them thrive.

A quick-cycling method can produce a lot of some types of bacteria, but it is unstable and may collapse, killing the fish. This is because the ammonia only feeds a few of the bacteria, and at the same time creates a toxic inhospitable environment for other organisms. Some people think this one bacteria is enough, but it isn't, it's based on old fashioned knowledge which we have surpassed. The ammonia is not needed at all.

You don't want your aquarium to be toxic, and while the bacteria and the plants do a lot of work for us, they can't do everything, which is why we do weekly water changes, to help keep the aquarium clean and healthy by removing water (which has dissolved toxins and chemicals in it) and detritus which will degrade. When you have more experience fishkeeping, you can experiment with this balance more, some people do less of this maintenence and still have happy fish - but this is for advanced people who understand what can go wrong and how to fix it quickly. Do not experiment with fish, they are creatures that deserve our respect and we have a duty of care to them. Even in a lowtech aquarium, it's good to get into the habit of doing 50% waterchanges for the best health of your aquarium, with happier fish and less algae.

So:
Plan your aquarium - research what plants and fish you want and how to keep them, so your aquarium is setup for success from the beginning.
Set up aquarium with light and filter
Add hardscape (wood and rocks), and your choice of substrate <Here is a guide on substrate>
Plant up your aquarium and add water
Do 50% waterchanges for 6 weeks, and watch your plants grow. Buy TNC Complete and dose that for healthy plant growth.
Begin to add animals after 6 weeks, don't add too many and don't add them all at once. Wait a week inbetween adding animals.

This is not the only way to set up an aquarium, but when you begin it is the easiest path to success.

And of course whenever you have a question come and research and ask here and we can help :)
 
I confess that I bought a bottle of Tetra Safestart+ after reading online reviews and noting Dr Tim Hovac's association with it. It cost US$5....

Worst case, its a "waste of money" but won't harm the fish.... (If fish started dying because of it I would expect a lot of negative amazon.com reviews, but so far the 900+ reviews are generally positive) :p
 
I confess that I bought a bottle of Tetra Safestart+ after reading online reviews and noting Dr Tim Hovac's association with it. It cost US$5....

Worst case, its a "waste of money" but won't harm the fish.... (If fish started dying because of it I would expect a lot of negative amazon.com reviews, but so far the 900+ reviews are generally positive) :p
The fish dying is from the ammonia, not from the bacteria products. It's not that they don't work (though I don't think they do that much), but that they are part of a mindset of impatience and misinterpreted science that goes hand-in-hand with things like ammonia dosing and adding fish too early.
 
Hi all,
Worst case, its a "waste of money" but won't harm the fish....
Agreed.
........ You can add the bacteria, they probably <"won't do any good">, but they definitely won't do any harm ..........
The fish dying is from the ammonia, not from the bacteria products.
Yes, it is the <"ammonia addition"> I <"don't like for planted tanks">. It was only recently that I began to appreciate just <"how heavily some people stock their aquariums"> and why there might be a place for ammonia based cycling, although I would still want <"plant/microbe biofiltration"> in all my tanks.
but that they are part of a mindset of impatience and misinterpreted science that goes hand-in-hand with things like ammonia dosing and adding fish too early.
That is really where <"I'm coming from">.
........... It isn't black and white scenario and that only one method can work, it is all shades of grey. You can cycle your tanks successfully with ammonia, and base your water management on the results of test kits, and plenty of people do, but I'm really interested in probability, not possibility.

I started all this because I was interested in simple robust techniques that every-one could use to increase their probability of being a successful fish keeper........

cheers Darrel
 
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