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Fish Depression Is Not a Joke

The below study is a bit heavy to read but I have copied a quote that seems the least confusing. Anyway, in other words, fish experience "human like" emotions arising from the individual fish's perception of the situation. More below.

Cognitive appraisal of environmental stimuli induces emotion-like states in fish
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13173-x


Emotions have been described as internal brain states associated with expressive behaviours, which humans experience as feelings3. Since animals cannot report the subjective experience of feelings the assessment of emotional states in animals has to rely on the occurrence of specific behaviours associated with internal central states. Thus, from a comparative perspective an emotion can be defined as a brain state, encoded by the activity of specific neural circuits, that is triggered by specific stimuli and that elicits the expression of specific behaviours and other external cues5. From this perspective, the results reported here showing that external stimuli of different valence and salience triggers the expression of specific behavioural profiles associated with specific physiological and neuromolecular states supports the occurrence of emotion-like states in fish. Given that emotional states are often associated with human behaviour this result may sound surprising at first. However, the evolution of affective states (i.e. emotions/mood) in animals has been predicted by theoretical models of adaptive decision-making, since it allows an adjustment of the response to cues of reward and punishment according to the autocorrelation of aversive and appetitive events in the environment and internal condition, rather than using a fixed response threshold. Thus, the modulation of decision-making by core affective states would allow animals to give more efficient responses to a wide range of fitness threatening and fitness enhancing events24,25,26,27. More recently, it has been proposed that these affective states share a number of properties, namely scalability, valence, persistence and generalization, which have been named emotion primitives, that allow their recognition in phylogenetically distant organism, hence opening the study of the biological mechanisms of emotion across different taxa5,6. In a previous study using a conditioned place preference/avoidance paradigm we have shown that Sea Bream exposed to appetitive or aversive stimuli have valence-specific responses (preference vs. avoidance, respectively) that are persistent in time, even when only the CS (i.e. conditioned place) is present28. Thus, in Sea Bream, at least two of these emotion primitives are present.

The fact that in this study the same stimulus presented in a predictable vs. unpredictable way elicited different behavioural, physiological and neuromolecular states suggests that stimulus appraisal by the individual, rather than an intrinsic characteristic of the stimulus, such as its valence, is triggering the observed responses. Therefore, the occurrence of emotion-like states in fish seems to be regulated by the individual’s perception of environmental stimuli. The role of cognitive appraisal in the regulation of stress and emotional states was first proposed in humans and has subsequently been expanded to other animals4,15,16. In fish the occurrence of cognitive appraisal has been documented in different species(e.g.18,28,29,30,31; however, its neural bases have not been investigated yet in fish and the present study provided a new insight into these mechanisms.
 
I was watching the below video about dolphin intelligence which reminded me of what one of my hillstream loaches does for food.

https://ihavenotv.com/part-1-conversations-with-dolphins

Instead of bunching up for food with the rest of hillstreams, which means being constantly chased away, he positions himself upside down on the front glass, with his nose stuck against the substrate right where I drop pellets. I normally feed small NLS pellets which get scattered around the front. So the loach starts probing the substrate with his nose while being stuck on the glass upside down. He may go around like that along the length of the front glass to find the pellets. Then when he stumbles upon pellets that have fallen near the glass, he lifts them up using his body and the glass to roll them up and he eats them right there, while stuck on the glass, expelling the left over out of his gills. Now if that's not a learnt behavior, I don't know what it is. I doubt it, it's something he had learnt in nature because the same or similar conditions to occur are unlikely(pellets dropped near a vertical glass on a daily basis) I've only seen the one loach doing it and he's a sub-dominant loach, meaning he normally gets bullied away from the food if he were to compete with the rest on the substrate. So he's learnt a trick :) I am going to catch it on camera because it is really funny. The first time I saw him I was stumped...
 
Than imagine dna testing revealed a Dolphin is closely related to. :rolleyes:
0462f73bfc9d24b27f6c9c800bd507af.jpg


Another nice video shared on facebook by Biopod about the ability of humans communicating with animals on a deeper level than just babbling intelligently.
 
Than imagine dna testing revealed a Dolphin is closely related to

Cows aren't stupid, although we eat them. There was a case I read about years ago. Basically the owner of the cow killed her calf each time for meat. One year the cow happened to give birth in the field.. As usual, eventually the calf was sacrificed for meat. Then he noticed that the cow never has milk when she comes back from pasture. He was stumped. He followed the cow and he discovered that this particular year the cow had two calves. She brought one to him to kill and left one in the bushes near the field which she fed every day....
 
Another nice video shared on facebook by Biopod about the ability of humans communicating with animals on a deeper level than just babbling intelligently.

That's pretty much shown in the dolphin video also. They can sense one's emotional state on a physical level. Animals have not been studied for that long at all and we're only discovering now things about them.
 
Than imagine dna testing revealed a Dolphin is closely related to. :rolleyes:
0462f73bfc9d24b27f6c9c800bd507af.jpg


Another nice video shared on facebook by Biopod about the ability of humans communicating with animals on a deeper level than just babbling intelligently.

Well whilst we're on the subject of closely related animals...
There is very little difference between animal DNA and our own. In the case of the great apes, like chimpanzees, bonobo, and gorillas there is just 1.2 % difference.
However, that's not really the whole story...how those genes are expressed makes a massive difference.
 
I was watching the below video about dolphin intelligence which reminded me of what one of my hillstream loaches does for food.

https://ihavenotv.com/part-1-conversations-with-dolphins

Instead of bunching up for food with the rest of hillstreams, which means being constantly chased away, he positions himself upside down on the front glass, with his nose stuck against the substrate right where I drop pellets. I normally feed small NLS pellets which get scattered around the front. So the loach starts probing the substrate with his nose while being stuck on the glass upside down. He may go around like that along the length of the front glass to find the pellets. Then when he stumbles upon pellets that have fallen near the glass, he lifts them up using his body and the glass to roll them up and he eats them right there, while stuck on the glass, expelling the left over out of his gills. Now if that's not a learnt behavior, I don't know what it is. I doubt it, it's something he had learnt in nature because the same or similar conditions to occur are unlikely(pellets dropped near a vertical glass on a daily basis) I've only seen the one loach doing it and he's a sub-dominant loach, meaning he normally gets bullied away from the food if he were to compete with the rest on the substrate. So he's learnt a trick :) I am going to catch it on camera because it is really funny. The first time I saw him I was stumped...


I got him on video,ha,ah..he's so funny. It's now his regular way of eating 1mm NLS pellets, no other loach is doing it..For those that are not seeing what's happening, the loach on the glass is fetching NLS pellets from the substrate.

 
I got him on video,ha,ah..he's so funny. It's now his regular way of eating 1mm NLS pellets, no other loach is doing it..For those that are not seeing what's happening, the loach on the glass is fetching NLS pellets from the substrate.


What i lik ethe most is the background audio.. :lol:
 
Anyway emotions?? Intelligence? Perception? Whatever it is it's mind boggling...


Easy way out? It just was lucky to look like this that's why it servived evolution!?.. Could be... But still remarkable, quite a few got lucky like that..
Walking stick, the walking leaf, the Chameleon etc. Anyway, what is it?? Emotions.. Intelligence? Perception?.. Is it in our minds? In our genes?.

In our genes? Than you might ask who is it. What is it?. Is it only us?

Nah can't be..


:nailbiting:
 
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I tend to think based on my own observation that fish are capable of sentient thought, I mean I don't think they're doing advanced calculus in their heads; and sure there are plenty of fish that are arguably a bit thick and programmed to forage, sleep, hide etc, but on the flip side, fish such as convict cichlids demonstrate keen intelligence, beyond simple instinct that I feel pushes them into at least some kind of thought bracket.
 
I don't think they're doing advanced calculus

But they do... :) Simply programmed by nature.. Seen karate kid? Obiwankenobisan catching a fly with chopsticks? A pike does this for breakfast, for dinner and for supper, doesn't even have to think about it.. :thumbup:

Find your excuse... :rolleyes: But it does...

And than in south america a socker goaly not doing their job well enough is called a Franguero..
A chicken catcher... :lol: Says it all
 
Or Archerfish; their aiming calculations would be very complex if you wrote them out on paper, allowing for refraction, ballistic trajectories, co-ordinating the droplets for simultaneous impact.
 
But they do... :) Simply programmed by nature.. Seen karate kid? Obiwankenobisan catching a fly with chopsticks? A pike does this for breakfast, for dinner and for supper, doesn't even have to think about it.. :thumbup:

Find your excuse... :rolleyes: But it does...

And than in south america a socker goaly not doing their job well enough is called a Franguero..
A chicken catcher... :lol: Says it all

I may have miscommunicated here, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, I'm actually supporting it. The advanced calculus is a metaphor for our equivalent daily thought, if that makes sense...

If not don't worry lol
 
I may have miscommunicated here, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, I'm actually supporting it. The advanced calculus is a metaphor for our equivalent daily thought, if that makes sense...

If not don't worry lol

I'm sorry and i understand, i had no intenstion the give you to feeling or idea me thinking you are disagreeing or making fun out of your comment. Just was trying to point out that in nature many of its creations make impossible calculation instinctively all day long without the need of a pocket calculator.. Than actualy needing one or needing a mile of paper to write it down firts supported by a team of professors to adchieve less than have of that isn't that advanced at all. But in contrast with our physical natural abilities building an airplain making us think we are, on top of everything. But you calling it a metaphor makes me laugh again and is so true.. :thumbup:

Mean while i was spraying my grass in my garden. And there is a pergola with a grape growing over it and behind that hangs a shade sail covering most of the grass. Than there is a fence with a 10x15cm mesh standing in front of a shrub. I saw a blackbird comming around the corner of the house and flying by at full speed under the grape, under the shade sail, through the 10x15cm mesh fence that is barely bigger than the bird and through a hole in the dense brush comming out at the other end landing on the sheds roof. All in a split second, i looked through the hole and it didn't have a straight path to come out again.. The little birds speed and trajectory completely nocked me off my feet. All this absolutely amazing and impossible flying skills in that little pea brain with such ease and speed, than what more is it capable off calculating. Even if the bird knew the route and practiced a few times each day, it still would be mind boggling adchievement.. :)
 
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