Fish choice for my scape

[Hanuman]

My scape is in a 90*45*45. The tank is currently cycling so I will be putting some fish in the tank in a few weeks from now but I am still unsure what do put in. The scape is composed of the following plants:

- Lobelia cardinalis

- Cryptocoryne Wendtii Brown

- Marsilea hirsuta

- Mini Pearl moss

- Spiky moss

- Flame moss

- Bolbitis heudelotii

- Microsorum pteropus Java fern (narrow leafs)

- Cryptocoryne balansae

- Anubias petite

- Rotala wallichii

- Lugwigia Palustris

- Hygrophila pinnatifida

- Bucephalandra SP green

- Hygrophila Polysperma 'Rosanervig'

- Java moss


And here is the general view of the tanks


For the substrate, I used Cal Aqua Labs Black Earth Premium soil along with some Green Base XR, Substrex and Multi-R.

So here are the fish that I was recommended to add and their approximate quantities but it seems a bit too much in my opinion.

- Neon tetras (x15)
- Cardinal red tetras (x15)
- Cherry shrimps (x20)
- Otocinclus affinis (x3)
- Sturisoma Panamense (x3)
- Dwarf puffers (for snails) (x3)
- Pearl Gouramis (x3) - These I already have as they were in the tank prior the scape.

That is a total of 42 fishes and 20 shrimps. My understanding is that shrimp and dwarf puffer is a no go (specially from the shrimp's point of view ).

What do you guys think and what would you recommend?

 

[mort]

Great looking scape. It provides plenty of cover so a group of fish should be happy in there. I'm not sure why you were advised to get both cardinals and neons, I'd just go for one species and have a large group. You could easily have 25-30 of a single species in there at that kind of fish size. Harlequin rasbora, ember tetra, pristell tetra are good options as well.
Dwarf puffers can be nippy so I wouldn't personally mix them with anything else. They often eat shrimp but sometimes not the adults, either way you need to make sure your population has settled and reach a point where some predation isn't a problem.
Ottos love company so I would add more than 3, 6-8 would be a minimum but 10 would be better.

Your other choices are good but their size is the limiting factor for your other fish choices because their bioload is much higher. Final numbers are hard to suggest as it depends on how much filtration you have, how many and how big water changes will be and how much growth you get from your plants. So my advice is add your must haves in the number you want and fill in the gaps with increasing numbers of a main shoal as focus over time.

 

[Onoma1]

I understand that while Otocinclus can live in small numbers that they are a 'social' fish normally found in very large shoals. They are much better off in larger numbers. I would increase the number of Otocinclus to six or more - perhaps supplement their diet with cucumber or algae wafers. Rachael Oleary has a spotlight video them which I found quite insightful:

 

[Hanuman]

Great looking scape. It provides plenty of cover so a group of fish should be happy in there. I'm not sure why you were advised to get both cardinals and neons, I'd just go for one species and have a large group. You could easily have 25-30 of a single species in there at that kind of fish size. Harlequin rasbora, ember tetra, pristell tetra are good options as well.
Dwarf puffers can be nippy so I wouldn't personally mix them with anything else. They often eat shrimp but sometimes not the adults, either way you need to make sure your population has settled and reach a point where some predation isn't a problem.
Ottos love company so I would add more than 3, 6-8 would be a minimum but 10 would be better.

Your other choices are good but their size is the limiting factor for your other fish choices because their bioload is much higher. Final numbers are hard to suggest as it depends on how much filtration you have, how many and how big water changes will be and how much growth you get from your plants. So my advice is add your must haves in the number you want and fill in the gaps with increasing numbers of a main shoal as focus over time.

I understand that while Otocinclus can live in small numbers that they are a 'social' fish normally found in very large shoals. They are much better off in larger numbers. I would increase the number of Otocinclus to six or more - perhaps supplement their diet with cucumber or algae wafers. Rachael Oleary has a spotlight video them which I found quite insightful:

Thanks. I like the Harlequin rasborice fish. I would need to see the price of those here in Thailand. In any case I have reviewed the list as follows:
- Harlequin rasbora (x20/30)
- Cherry shrimps (x10)
- Otocinclus affinis (x10)
- Sturisoma Panamense (x3)
- Pearl Gouramis (x3) [These I already have as they were in the tank prior the scape.]

What do you say?

 

[akwarium]

Nice tank!

this combination could work. The rasbora and gouramis are a nice combination. Some shrimp wel be eaten but in this kind of tank the population will probably survive, you may not see much of them.

Why the Sturisoma panamense? They are from fare more fast flowing streams then the Gouramis, they could be fine but feed them separately with wafers or greens in the evening, they are usually not that active during daytime.

 

[Hanuman]

Nice tank!

this combination could work. The rasbora and gouramis are a nice combination. Some shrimp wel be eaten but in this kind of tank the population will probably survive, you may not see much of them.

Why the Sturisoma panamense? They are from fare more fast flowing streams then the Gouramis, they could be fine but feed them separately with wafers or greens in the evening, they are usually not that active during daytime.

Shrimps will be eaten by which fish?

As for the Sturisoma panamense that was the suggestion I was given because it's an algae eater, wood cleaner and basically adds to the cleaning crew but after what you are saying I might reconsider. Plus after doing some reading they seem to grow up to 8/10 inches which is bigger than what I thought.

 

[Hanuman]

Oh I forgot to say I also have 2 bamboo shrimps that I had in my tank previously. Would there be any problems adding them in the scape with the other fishes mentioned above?

 

[akwarium]

All fish will eat baby cherry shrimp, but in a densely planted tank like yours, some will survive. The pearl gouramis might even try to eat an adult cherry shrimp, some gouramis do, some don't. Usually the shrimp will be faster en much better in hiding themselves then the gouramis will be in finding them.

Bamboo shrimps should be fine since they are to large to be considered food.

algae eating fish won't solve any major algae issues, the otocinclus will be enough to help you keeping your hardscape and glass a bit cleaner. Sturisoma are highly specialized fore a certain habitat, those kind of fish are always hard to keep long term in a community tank.

 

[Hanuman]

Thank you for clarifying those points. The Sturisoma looks like a really nice fish but you are right might not be the right tank for them.

 

[The Accidental Aquascaper]

Nice selection, but I think some might not be compatible. I’m a novice, but I’ve been researching similar fish and from what I’ve read, it’s best to keep just the smallest fish when keeping shrimp too. A honey gourami is possible I think, but the other gouramis would be an issue.

Looking forward to seeing you add the fish!

 

[mort]

Nice selection, but I think some might not be compatible. I’m a novice, but I’ve been researching similar fish and from what I’ve read, it’s best to keep just the smallest fish when keeping shrimp too. A honey gourami is possible I think, but the other gouramis would be an issue.

Looking forward to seeing you add the fish!

Shrimp will always get predated with almost any fish choice but your correct in saying that smaller fish are normally safer. Saying that not all fish are created equal and I would say the chances of success with gourami and shrimp is far higher with pearl gourami than the dwarf varieties. I wouldn't still rule out predation but pearls are truly graceful, peaceful fish who tend to almost constantly hang around the top, whereas dwarf gourami can be aggressive and predatory, using all levels of the tank.

 

[Hanuman]

My pearl gouramis are indeed very peaceful and graceful. I never saw them being agressive towards other smaller fish I had. They actually like to be left alone and they like to stick in groups.

We will see how it goes when I add the fish and the shrimp. I will probably add the shrimps a few days prior adding the fish so they can settle and start cleaning the tank. This makes me think, what about adding amano shrimps instead of the cherry shrimps or actually have half of both?

 

[mort]

Due to the amano size they are less likely to get eaten than the smaller shrimp species. Many people mix them with other shrimp as well so a mixture should be fine.

 

[Hanuman]

I have a side question. I have noticed a steep increase in snail population for the past 2 days. Probably some snail eggs came with the plants and started hatching in the past couple of days. Although I have nothing against them I have started to remove them due to their large numbers. This morning alone I removed ~ 20 of them.

Are they beneficial and should I leave them be or should I removed them entirely. If so what would be the best approach for the later as hand picking them doesn't seem the most effective way and it is actually quite time consuming considering how small they are and difficult to see. As a side note, there is no fish/shrimp currently in the tank so no one to pray on them other than me . And is there is any fish within my list that will actually eat them? If not what fish could you recommend I add to take care of the snails?

Thank you.

 

[tam]

If so what would be the best approach for the later as hand picking them doesn't seem the most effective way and it is actually quite time consuming considering how small they are and difficult to see.

You can use a trap, or drop some veggies in turn the lights out and they'll gather in one place, there are chemical treatments too (not shrimp safe so if you want to use that do it before livestock).

 

[Hanuman]

You can use a trap, or drop some veggies in turn the lights out and they'll gather in one place, there are chemical treatments too (not shrimp safe so if you want to use that do it before livestock).

Will the trap eventually remove all snails? I rather avoid chemicals if possible but might be necessary. What product do you recommend?

 

[tam]

I've never used chemicals in mine - I have shrimp and don't mind the odd snail. The traps will reduce the numbers but you'd need to be very diligent over a fair period of time to stand any chance of completely wiping them out but it does reduce numbers. Keep in mind that once you have rid the tank of them you'd want to quarantine/treat any new plant or wet hardscape you put back in as they are very easy to reintroduce.

 

[Hanuman]

I guess I will go the soft way with a trap see how that works. Thanks.

 

[Matt @ ScapeEasy]

If going with Amano shrimp bear in mind that they do not breed in freshwater nd so it depends if you want to try and go for a self sustaining cherry shrimp population or a set number of Amanos.

 

[Andrew Butler]

I have a side question. I have noticed a steep increase in snail population for the past 2 days. Probably some snail eggs came with the plants and started hatching in the past couple of days. Although I have nothing against them I have started to remove them due to their large numbers. This morning alone I removed ~ 20 of them.

Are they beneficial and should I leave them be or should I removed them entirely. If so what would be the best approach for the later as hand picking them doesn't seem the most effective way and it is actually quite time consuming considering how small they are and difficult to see. As a side note, there is no fish/shrimp currently in the tank so no one to pray on them other than me . And is there is any fish within my list that will actually eat them? If not what fish could you recommend I add to take care of the snails?

Thank you.

If it is a pest snail problem which it sounds like it is then I would be trying to get on top of it ASAP, keep picking out as many as you can by hand and as @tam says a trap of some kind will help too. Also look into a product called Esha Gastropex which is fish and shrimp safe if you need a product to use with livestock, they do recommend not using any not using any water conditioners too which is easy if there's no livestock. Just read what Esha have said below about how it works and removing dead snails.

From Esha:
'ESHa Gastropex is shrimp safe but be carefull with too many dead snails. Shrimp eat a lot of dead waste and the snails contain eSHa Gastropex, If the shrimps then eat it, it is not so good for them. So try to remove as much snails before, during and after treatment and if you see any changes in behavior stop treatment and do a large water change. Please do not use any waterconditioners in your tank, if you did, do a large water change before treatment. Waterconditioners can influence the product.
Yes, eSHa Gastropex contains Copper.
Kind regards,
Nikki'

Also a link to the product page.
https://www.eshalabs.eu/english/products/esha-gastropex.html