• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

First step in to this beautiful world

Musicmanryann

Member
Joined
2 Apr 2023
Messages
29
Location
Iowa, USA
Hello everyone! Finally getting around to posting my first steps in to this beautiful hobby. I am here hoping to get assistance learning along the way, as well as engage with like-minded enthusiasts. Been lurking on here for almost two months now and you all seem like a friendly and active bunch. I am excited to be a part of the party! Now, onto my story.

This journey began innocently enough. I bought my daughter a fish tank for Christmas. She wanted a rodent, but I didn't feel that would work well. We are a very busy family and she is still learning to be responsible. In my mind I thought a fish tank would be much easier. Go to fish store, buy a beginner's tank kit. Have her pick some fish, colorful gravel and decorations she liked, throw it all together with some water and make sure they get fed. Well, come to find out it isn't even close to that simple, lol. After more than half of the fish died early on and the tank water resembled something out of a dystopian toxic waste site, I sat down at my computer and started to figure out how to really do this thing.

Along the way, I found out about aquatic plants and how they can help create a better environment for fish. From there saw these beautiful rimless tanks (didn't know they were called rimless at the time) with loads of healthy colorful and exotic plants that seemed out of this world. There was something more about these tanks, it wasn't just about the plants, or the fish, it was about how it all worked together as an ecosystem, in a very harmonious and beautiful way. By themselves, these ecosystem are self-sustaining, but approached in a sensitive way, humans can not only nurture this system, but also enhance them to create some of the truest art I have experienced. It isn't just art though, there is a lot of science at play behind aquatic flora and fauna husbandry. Chemistry, Microbiology, Physics and others all play a role in this as well. It is not only art and not only science, but a healthy dose of both, working which also find very appealing.

Needless to say, once I came to this realization I was hooked completely and began in earnest to learn everything I can about this hobby. It is kind of the way I am....once I find something that interests me I go a mile wide and a mile deep with it. I frankly get obsessed and my experience with this hobby is no exception. At the same time, I cannot rush nature, and ultimately cannot control it, and thus this hobby forces me in to a state of patience and submission to these forces, which is outside my normal state, and helps me grow in these areas of my life. In order for me to help curate and nurture a well balanced, harmonious and thus beautiful layout I must find also find balance and harmony within myself. Simultaneously the ecosystem helps me find this harmony, and thus we coexist optimally in a symbiotic way, where the ultimate goal isn't to experience nature, but to become part of it.

I'm rambling about all this, because my natural tendency is to get lost in the details and lose sight of why I originally began this journey. There is likely going to be lots of cussing when I am fighting algae or whatever other problems come along the way. And since technically this is a tank journal, I want make a chronicle of this so I can hopefully come back to this time and again, when I naturally lose the forest from the trees, or the tank from the rotala so to speak.

Now, if i haven't lost you yet, on to the details:

TANK AND LIGHT

IMG_1178.JPEG

Tank unpacked and set up. ADA 60P. It was hard to put $225 USD for a tank, but once it got here I was immediately in love. It is simply stunning, and made me very excited to fill it up. For my next build I may go with UNS just to compare, but I can see why ADA tanks are so regarded.

Also, the Chihiros WRBG II Pro for light. I love techy things and was totally attracted to the app control. So many opportunities to geek out and get lost in the details. It also seems like a good entry light for a enthusiast wannabe, such as myself. A light that gives flexibility to keep it simple or customize it once you get more comfortable and level up, all at a good value. So far the only thing I don't like are those flimsy legs that don't fit on the tank at all, nto even functionally. I have the hanging kits coming my way from Chihiros, that will improve it drastically.

I put on a white vinyl background that I have since removed. I worked really hard to get it on there good, but as soon as I put water in it showed every single little area the seal wasn't perfect--most of which were at the top where I will likely have negative space and was a big distraction to me. I like the idea of it, though, just back to the drawing board with it, I guess. Any thoughts, suggestions or otherwise here are welcome.

HARDSCAPE

IMG_1179.JPEG


Make shift dojo using the top the tank came in. Generally going for a right to left triangle layout Using Icelandic lava rock, and spiderwood. This is a little over half of what I bought. Sourcing hardscape was the biggest surprise challenges in the procurement process, as there are no local sources near me, and holy crap it is expensive for deadwood and rocks, lol. Would be so much easier to be able to pick through a large assortment and be able to see it in 3d, touch it and play with it before buying. For future builds where I'm using a large amount of hardscape that features prominently in the layout, I will drive to Chicago. it is a 3.5 hour drive each way, but I spent at least that scouring the interwebs finding the best source and working with them on just the right stuff.

FILTER AND CO2

IMG_1182.JPEG

Filter and CO2 ready to go. Got the Biomaster 350 Thermo. It is awesome. It was one of the first filters I settled on in my research, but then spent 3x more time finalizing the purchase due to so many complaints all over about the gurgling, noise and such that seem to be prevalent. Fortunately for me, there was no such issues. After filling it with matrix, I have done zero modifications and it runs super quiet. I think it has great flow, but as a newb I have no clue what that really means, lol. I joke, but this is why I got such a beefy filter. As a beginner who has no clue about so many things, I know that by using a top line filter, I don't ever have to think along the way if my filter is part of whatever issue I'm having at the time. I can focus more on other variables. My biggest gripe is the tubing that comes with it. It is the stiffest vinyl tubing I have ever used. I'm not sure how you could ever wrangle this tubing between the filter and tank and make it look neat and unobtrusive. Tubing from my harware store is better, but has writing on it. I spent a little extra and got the Chihiros/FZone tubing that is perfect.

AS far as CO2 I have the Fzone mini v 3.0 with solenoid, connected to 5lb cylinder. I also have the COart inline diffuser I will hook into the filter once I get planted. For now I am cycling my tank.

SUBSTRATE

IMG_1184.JPEG


Like anything there is a mountain of bad advice and even more mediocre, incomplete or overly simplistic advice about how to do all of this. Wading through all of the noise is part of the challenge and journey I think, but a critical component for early success. Along my journey of choosing from the myriad ways in which I could begin my first layout I found 2hr Aquarist/Dennis Wong to be a place I could rely on for solid info. He is a big proponent in the dark start method, and I guess I became and follower. I used their new product, APT S which is blend of nutrients and starter bacteria to cycle the tank and remove the excess ammonia from aquasoil prior to planting. From my research it would seem I am a bit of a guinea pig here as I could not find any independent sources that have used this product. A bit of a leap of faith, but given how credible Mr Wong seems to be within the planted tank world, I made the leap.
IMG_1183.JPEG
\

Speaking of aquasoil and high ammonia levels, I used Amazonia II. Just seemed one of the best from my reviews and at least where I am at I was able to get at the same or even cheaper price than other regarded brands like Tropica or Platinum. I bought two bags as I got a deal, and let's be honest this will be far from the last tank I buy. With all the hardscape I put in, I ended up using not quite a full bag.

PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER

IMG_1185.JPEG


Here I have the stones and aquasoil in. This took me an unreasonable amount of time, but I completely lost myself in it. One things that added a lot of time was that I added some extra matrix I had to build up the base. I didn't use mesh bag to hold it together and when I moved things around it would come up to the surface. Why did I do this? I kept going back and forth whether or not to buy ADA Powersand and it just seemed a little too superfluous to me at the time. Likewise, I found APT Start to do the same things other than the pumice stone. That's where the matrix came in, to be a makeshift powersand. My problem is I made this decision right before I did it and didn't fully think it through. I knew I needed to build the soil pretty high to get the hardscape where I wanted it, but started to worry about proper flow and potential anaerobic conditions with that much depth of aquasoil. Classic me overthinking things.

The other thing I kept going back and forth about was whether or not to add soil than stone, or stone then soil and/or a mix of both. Obviously there is a a lot of variation out there, but in hindsight I would've at least added some of the stone first. Overall I think I was along the right track, just didn't quite execute properly on some of this stuff, but learned a TON. Bottom line, is that I very happy with how it turned out. I almost left it with just the rocks, but my problem is that 1) with jsut the rocks it felt a little too "iwagumi-ish" when i am going for nature aquarium style, and 2) I am just in love with this spiderwood I have.

"Finished" hardscape
IMG_1187.JPEG


Here it is with the spiderwood. The picture doesn't do it justice at all. One thing I have learned is that being able to see it in three dimensions makes a huge difference. Most of my pics of my tank the pics seem to look a lot different than real-life. Gives me a whole lot more appreciation for the breathtaking professional scapes you see--absolutely amazing they are able to make the picture "pop" and add so much shadow and depth, in the way I don't see in this photo like I do in real life. What does everyone think? I think it looks a little crowded, but when I take the wood out I am less happy with it. My favorite part of the wood is the short little root sticks surrounding the two dark knots. What the picture doesn't show very well is those actually come at and up and away from the viewer, so when looking in person it adds in a sense of much greater scale and dynamic lines than this pic for sure. The other things this pic doesnt show is the stones that sit at the bottom of the chasm between the two large stones in the background. You can kind of see it in the first photo with just rocks, but there are actually two stones there, one in the mid ground and one in the background and a large dip down in between them.. In real life there is definitely layering happening here and depth created that looks dynamic and interesting, but isn't translating well in the pic. Hoping as i get plants in there and learn how to take better pictures I can accentuate it a bit more.


PLANTS
Rotala Rotundifolia sp Green
2​
Micranthemum callitrichoides (Cuba)
2​
Java Fern Narrow Mini
2​
Anubias Coffeefolia [Mini Size]
2​
Rotala Hra
2​
Fissidens Fontanus / Phoenix Moss
4​
Hydrocotyle Sibthorpioides
1​
Cryptocoryne wendtii ’Brown’
1​
Cryptocoryne Undulatus ’Red’
1​
Micranthemum Micranthemoides
1​
Cryptocoryne Parva
2​
Eleocharis sp. Mini
1​
Alternanthera Reineckii Mini
2​
Rotala Colorata
2​
Rotala Rotundifolia
2​
Mini Taiwan Moss4

Speaking of plants, one of the great benefits of doing a dark start is that I got my layout set with your hardscape, and then decides how you want it planted from there, and it forced to me to take my time with the process, so i felt like I learned more than if I picked them out in a day. Also, a drawback because it is soooo hard to wait! Right now, the tank has been cycling since 4/9, so 17 days, and I have had all that time to very deliberately choose and learn all about them and how they will work with my overall plan. I've been testing the water every day and is almost complete, so I ordered the plants you see above and they shipped today! Assuming the postal service does their job, the plan is to start planting come Sunday. Oh, btw the instruction on 2hr APT (S)tart suggests 2-3 weeks for the cycle with high ammonia aquasoil, and that is exactly where I am at. So far, no complaints with this product.

There is so much I could share about the process of choosing plants, but overall it was a ton of very enjoyable work. I probably had 85% of the plants figured out within a couple of hours on the first day, then spent the rest of the day picking out the other 15%. I really feel (well hope really, because i don't know for sure) taking that extra time for the 15% is essential to my success with this build. I might be wrong, but I dont think so. Narrowing down the plants I wanted to get was made sooooooo much easier with Tropica's website where I could examine scapes, and see exactly what plants they used and where and how they used them, and then click on the plants and get all of its info. I'd probably be still picking out most of my plants if not for this resource. Another big challenge I had was figuring out how much of each plant to get. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there, which is probably on purpose as it gets you to buy more plants, which certainly worked on me. Knowing me, I probably have twice as many plants coming my way than I can reasonably fit in my tank. I ordered 16 different plant species, 31 total plants, and over half of those are "Buy two get one free". So I have a load of plants coming my way. But hey, my original shopping cart was 50% bigger, both in species and plants and I whittled it down to here, so good, right?? Hahaha.

TODAY

IMG_1219.jpeg


And here is my tank as of 5 minutes ago. It is just sitting at the precipice of a universe of opportunities, isn't it? Let's see how much I can keep it that way.

Anyways, that's it for now. I am finalizing my plant layout plan, but my next post will be sharing that and seeing what you all think as we lead up to planting day. Also, have plans to go over my lighting, CO2, fert plants and my RO system, so stay tuned!

Thanks for reading this far! Hahaha

Cheers,
Ryan
 
Welcome, and I totally agree with this to a point where I'm slightly embarrassed to post photographs of my aquariums...
The picture doesn't do it justice at all. One thing I have learned is that being able to see it in three dimensions makes a huge difference. Most of my pics of my tank the pics seem to look a lot different than real-life.
Cheers!
 
The picture doesn't do it justice at all. One thing I have learned is that being able to see it in three dimensions makes a huge difference. Most of my pics of my tank the pics seem to look a lot different than real-life.
That is a very common issue. Besides the three dimensionality and the human brains incredible ability to compensate for off- or low light, off-hues etc., most of our cell phone cameras are not tailored or offer enough dials to manipulate the build-in assumptions made by the camera about a typical scenes... which obviously is not an aquarium. Certain brands/models of camera phones seems to be doing particularly well in this department however. Aquarium pictures taken with my iPhone usually looks like junk - always gets a yellow tinge that I don't see with my eyes. The few full tank pictures I've ever posted here or shared are mostly taken with my Canon 5DSR - which unfortunately I'm too lazy to bring out on a regular basis and do the necessary post-processing.

Welcome to UKAPS! :)

Cheers,
Michael
 
Last edited:
PLANT LAYOUT PLAN

As promised, back to post about my mostly finalized plan for planting. For this, I borrowed my daughter's sketchbook, and tried my best to get down on paper what has been in my mind. It is more of a "skratch" than a sketch, but I think it gives a general idea of what I am going for. Emphasis on general, as I have never actually laid eyes on, or touched these plants before, all of this is just from dissecting pictures online. Also, I want to allow a significant amount of flexibility and things to be organic, as this is nature aquarium, not Dutch style (although I think dutch style is super cool!) Anyways, hopefully you can decipher the scribbles, this is the view from the top looking down

IMG_1223.jpeg

Plant list if you can make out my chicken scratch
IMG_1224.jpeg


Heavy on moss and heavy on Rotala. These are the plants I seem to gravitate most toward as I was doing my planning. Terrestrial moss has always been my favorite plants, and as i got in to aquascaping, I find myself most "wow'd" by heavy and dramatic use of moss. I was reluctant to use so much as I know it isn't the most beginner friendly plant, but I really want to see just how much of a challenge it is. Basically I have a good amount of moss, on every piece of hardscape in the tank. Fissidens, on the tops of the big rocks, and Taiwan mini down on the smaller rocks and then tied all over the spiderwood. The spiderwood comes out easily so my plan is to pull out the wood to tie the moss down, and then glue it on the rocks. This way I can try both methods, also it just seems like the easiest way, outside of the yogurt method. Guessing this will be a quite tedious process, but i cannot wait. I'm weird, lol. A similar idea with Rotala. Very attracted by the different colors it can add to a layout, and also, get lots of practice trimming! I also like how when they are grown well, you can "sculpt" them, like a mature hedge.

To sand, or not to sand

IMG_1187.jpg


Ok, everyone, don't laugh, I know this is super duper rough. I tried my hand at MS Paint, to give a general idea of what this might look like from a face on view in full-color. I got too far in before I realized I didn't know what I was doing, and it looked pretty rough. At the same time, it illustrates something I have gone back on forth on during the entire planning process. Should I add some sand in the foreground? How big should i make it? Should i make a sand path, going to my vanishing point? I am still not sure, but this pic illustrates (very very roughly) what this may look like. I would love some feedback on this.

Also any feedback on my plan is welcome at anytime. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Ryan

PS. Before I go, just wanted to share one last pic. Found the Taiwan mini on Etsy, and it just arrived today. This pic is of holding my first aquatic plant--a crapload of moss! it is so cool!

IMG_1225.jpeg
 
AAAAAND IT'S PLANTED!!!

.....And I'm exhausted..... Apologies for lack of ongoing updates, but there just was no time. Holy crap, that was equal parts thrilling and exhausting. I'm jealous of all of you that have been doing this for years--its been a long time since I've found so much novelty and joy with a hobby. They talk a lot about flow with this hobby--and I had that in spades. On Sunday, my main planting day I was at it for an embarrassing amount of time (all day) and still didn't get it all done. All the youtube aquascapers make it look so easy, but I realize now they are full of s@#!! However with great challenge comes great sense of accomplishment and that is where I am at today, so thought I would sit down and share a little about my experience with all of you. I don't have as many photos as I would've liked, but I got so wrapped up in everything, and kept running short on time, so this is a lot like a rest of owl story, but here we are.

Apolgies in advance for all the typos. This was really more of a stream of consciousness, and I dont have time to proofread.

Day 1 Moss Day


IMG_1230(1).jpeg
IMG_1231(2).jpeg


On Saturday I was waiting for the rest of the plants to arrive which because my block is the last to get mail wasn't going to be until the end of the day, I decided to plant moss. Armed with a wad of Taiwan mini, scissors, thread and an overabundance of naïve optimism, I set about to tie the moss around my spider wood. Honestly if I was just wrapping the moss around a singular branch, the hardest part would've been tying the end knots. That part was downright maddening and made me hate my fat fingers. The other hard part was working around and through other branches and the thread invariably getting snagged on one of them as I wrapped. I kept practicing my deep breathing and focusing on the process rather than end result (see first part of first post) and I "finished". I got a little faster as I went, but make no mistake this is a tedious process that I would do again, only because i really like moss.

Then my plants arrived. I was expecting a rather substantial box with all the plants I ordered, but the box they came in wasn't much larger than a cigar box. I opened this box thinking that maybe there were two boxes and one was delayed, but nope, all the plants were stuffed, carefully and safely, but stuffed into this miniature sized box. That was the first thing I noticed...for the most part all of the plants are smaller than I had in my mind. Not good or bad, but they were small to my uncalibrated eye. At first I worried about having enough, but boy was I wrong.....hahahahaha. The next thing I noticed was how pretty all of them were. The Cuba was this vibrant green I haven't seen since I was in western Ireland. Just gorgeous little bundles of life, of nature. I was like a kid at Christmas.

That night I barely slept, I was so excited to get going. I had the the entire day to get these plants in my 64 liter tank. I set about deliberately sipping my coffee as I dug in and slowly started preparing my little plantlets of cuba and eleocharis mini. Little did I know I was going to need all damn day and then some.

IMG_1234.JPEG


I had a sneaking suspicion this was going to take much longer than a youtube video, so one thing I did that I wasn't sure I needed to do or not was keep my filter going in a 5 gallon bucket of tank water. I just spent 3 weeks carefully inoculating my biofilter and I didn't want it to die while I was trying to fumble around with getting everything just so in my tank whatever that means. What do you all think of me doing this? Overkill, but couldnt hurt? Yeah, that sounds like me.

One thing that slowed me down was the "tweezers" I had to do this with. I bought I decent pair direct from Chihiro's with a light hanging kit, and of course it was delayed, and of course I couldn't wait any longer to plant (plus I was worried about the plants keeping in their bags that long). I didn't think it would work well using my fingers (see above issue with knotting thread, so my only option when I realized this was to buy a $15 four piece aquscaping kit on amazon, including wave scissors and soil leveler, and it even came with a carry bag and ph testing strips! I didn't hold out hope, but I also didn't see another option. Sure enough, my hunches about the tweezers quality was correct, and even though I have never seen or touched a pair of aquascaping tweezers I thought for sure they could be better designed than this which was reminiscent of a cheap metal version of disposable chopsticks.

I was eager and willing, so once again, rolled up my sleeves and got to work planting the Cuba. Started with this as I knew it would be the most challenging. I was right. First of all, there are no visible roots, that I could see, you kind of jsut have to wing it planting what you think is the down into the soil and leave some up exposed. A great learning experience was had as I would proceed to to get one clump planted and the next one planted would send that one floating to the top of the water. You can see the size of the plantlets I made to plant. Well, I knew they need to be small clumps to keep them from floating, especially since I wasn't using fine aquasoil, so I made them super small. Welp, come to find out in my expereince what works best is for them to be 2-3 times smaller than this to have the best time. Also, using better tweezers. Since planting day I have been dealing with random floaters here and there and using my chihiros tweezers/pinceps is like a wet dream compared to what I used to plant almost my entire tank.

Half Done!
70457563252__A7BFDB66-3C05-490B-8EC0-60C1758E7AFE.jpeg

Like I said, I got really engrossed in the process of planting, and it was like i was in a steady troubleshooting mode, or missing my tweezers, or where was my water, or whatever my Dr. Doolittle absent-minded brain would come up with to sidetrack me, so this is the only in progress picture I have. And I only have it because my girlfriend texted me curious how it was going and I sent her this. Here I have the cuba in, some of the some of the R. Mini in. I don't have one of my pieces of mossed spider wood in here, and the only reason I have the one at this time is I was sending the touch points to know where to plants. This was me about half way done and most of the way through the day. I

And then 10 minutes later I was finished and no other problems to speak of as of writing this. Just kidding. This is my tank as of yesterday. Sorry, picture somehow taken with a potato:

IMG_1239.jpeg



And the whole set up:

IMG_1240.jpeg


And some better quality closeups. These are definitely more true to real life colors than the previous:

Back right corner

IMG_1247(1).jpg


Yes, I know most of the moss on that top branch is dying. I had it out the other day to retie a couple portions I wasn't happy with and that part was resting on a towel and dried out on me. A little bit of it still is green, we'll see if it bounces back or not. Also, the glue spots, yes!! Another big challenge I faced. It was a lot harder gluing down the moss than I thought, especially without the glue marks showing through. Definitely learned a ton, though, and got muuuuuch better as I went. Mostly just being very sparing with glue. I did try it with water in and without and see positives to both. I'd really like some guidance here for next time, if there is a glue that works better for moss or whatever, tips for application, etc, i'd love to hear it. I used gorilla glue gel, gorllia glue clear and locktite regular super glue. Again all three had their ups and downs. On the Other hand i can already see the moss starting to grow over the spots so it is much less noticeable than before.

IMG_1248(1).jpg


Plants were starting to look a bit yellow yesterday. Bouncing back today.
IMG_1249.jpg


Looking from the left side. Beautiful rotalas, H'ra, Green, and Rotundifiola, and the Colorata fuzzy in the far background. The rotalalas were all fresh cut stems and in really good condition, but in emersed form. When will they start to transition their leaves? I'm pretty sure I need to "top" them sooner than later, but I am a little unclear exactly how to do that. My current fuzzy understand is that after they will start to grow new leaves (this has begun on some already) and at some point in that growth I cut off the tops, pick out the bottoms, throw them away and then replant. (?) And then maybe the next time I top and then levea the bottoms to grow side shoots. (?) Are there any good resources out there that speak very specifically on how to go about this them? This is a point where I am lacking in confidence about next steps , so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

MOVING FORWARD

CO2
Today I am locking in my co2 parameters. I would've liked to do this yesterday, but my first regulator was a dud. It was leaking co2 from the pressure gauge housing. The first day into the next morning I went through my entire 5# bottle of co2 and had to get it refilled. Thank goodness for amazon prime as I was able to get a new regulator shipped to me and reinstalled this morning. I already had a handlheld ph meter (I use it for work), and am using that to take regular readings for the drop. I wasn't able to get the new one installed in time to have it reliably locked in, so will continue the process tomorrow, but am wondering how my daily water changes play into this. It is currently looking like 5 bps to get the full drop. I am currently doing daily 70% changes. I am assuming I should take my initial ph reading right after the water change? Would it be better to do the water changes in the morning before photoperiod or right after the photoperiod? Right now I am doing them in the am, but was thinking right after lights out would degass the tank and add in a bunch of o2. Are there best practices here? Just something that occurred to me to consider or maybe just overthinking again.

Water Parameters

I am using RODI water that comes into the tank at 0 TDS and pH around 6. I am adding in 2hr APT Sky to remineralize, raising my Gh to 7. No affect on 0 kH. Not exactly sure what to do about kH right now. Earlier on I tried to raise it a little bit by adding some baking soda, but the soil pushed it right back down. I also am reading this article, that makes it sound like I should worry about it I'm still getting a little ammonia --that amazonia is a persistent bugger--0.25 a few hours after water change and none right after. Nitrite is currently at zero and nitrate at 5-10. Not currently seeing significant plant melt outside a couple of crypts, but it sounds like this is very normal and a lot of times people remove the leaves before planting anyways. Any wilting or browning leaves I am removing as oberved.

Ferts

Right now using 4+ ml of APT Zero per day.

Lighting

Again using Chihiros WRGB Pro 2 and giving 8 hours of light starting at noon with 90 minutes of sunrise and 90 minutes of sunset at 8 pm. RGBW Spectrum intensity is set at 50, 40, 50, and 25, respectively. How does this look to everyone? I was using this thread for reference, but that light is a 120, so not sure it translates completely. I work a good amount from home and this tank is in my office, so I am nurturing it pretty hard.

Oof, I think that's it for now. I'd really accept any and all feedback about my status and progress, and to recap answers to the following questions:
When and what is my next steps with topping/trimming the rotala?
Should I do changes in the morning before or at night after the photoperiod, or either?
What do you think of my light settings?

Thanks everyone!

Ryan
 
keep my filter going in a 5 gallon bucket of tank water. I just spent 3 weeks carefully inoculating my biofilter and I didn't want it to die while I was trying to fumble around with getting everything just so in my tank whatever that means. What do you all think of me doing this? Overkill, but couldnt hurt? Yeah, that sounds like me.
Wont have done any harm :) I might have done the same if I knew it was going to be off for a while, especially with a relatively new filter that you want to keep all those new microbes alive in.
Yes, I know most of the moss on that top branch is dying. I had it out the other day to retie a couple portions I wasn't happy with and that part was resting on a towel and dried out on me. A little bit of it still is green, we'll see if it bounces back or not.
Easy mistake to make, the plants dont like drying out 😅 Setting a timer on to spray periodically can help, or wrapping exposed branches in tissue paper wetted with aquarium water will help too.
Theres a chance the moss will resprout from the brown, you'll just have to wait and see.
Also, the glue spots, yes!! Another big challenge I faced. It was a lot harder gluing down the moss than I thought, especially without the glue marks showing through. Definitely learned a ton, though, and got muuuuuch better as I went. Mostly just being very sparing with glue. I did try it with water in and without and see positives to both. I'd really like some guidance here for next time, if there is a glue that works better for moss or whatever, tips for application, etc, i'd love to hear it. I used gorilla glue gel, gorllia glue clear and locktite regular super glue. Again all three had their ups and downs. On the Other hand i can already see the moss starting to grow over the spots so it is much less noticeable than before.
How much glue do you have on your fingers right now 😁😁 This is an important rite of passage 😊
I prefer using gel type superglue if I have to use glue, and use as little as possible. The non gel type tends to run / pool out a bit for me, and it will cause larger white patches where it has done so once it comes into contact with water. There is a sort of magic ratio between wet and dry that makes the glue set almost instantly. It can be useful for attaching plants, because then you wont have to hold the plant down for very long. Too wet and the glue wont attach very well, too dry and it takes a long time to set. I like to have the hardscape somewhat wet and then apply a very small dab of glue to a moist plant. When you press the plant+glue down where you want it, if you got the ratio wet/dry right, it sets almost instantly. Sometimes you can spray the spot with water to accelerate as well.
Most plants are not fond of being glued, and will eventually rot where the glue touches them. If gluing rhizome plants, avoid gluing the rhizome directly, if you can. The roots are more tolerant of the glue. The moss is a bit difficult, just know that the part with glue on wont be very happy. So the goal is just to hold it down until it can attach itself. Not all mosses attach to hardscape, that makes them more annoying to deal with long term.

When will they start to transition their leaves?
They will begin transitioning in new leaves as soon as they are produced. Rotala rotundifolia varieties for instance will go from round emersed leaves to more elongated submersed leaves.
Its a gradual process, so they will over time get longer and longer until they reach their final form.

I'm pretty sure I need to "top" them sooner than later, but I am a little unclear exactly how to do that. My current fuzzy understand is that after they will start to grow new leaves (this has begun on some already) and at some point in that growth I cut off the tops, pick out the bottoms, throw them away and then replant. (?) And then maybe the next time I top and then levea the bottoms to grow side shoots. (?) Are there any good resources out there that speak very specifically on how to go about this them? This is a point where I am lacking in confidence about next steps , so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I would not trim them for a while. Trimming/topping/cutting or otherwise disturbing a plant interrupts the growth. What makes a brand new high tech planted tank "hum" is all the plants actively growing. So you dont want to disturb that momentum until you actually have to. For stem plants for example, you could start thinking about trimming when the tops get near the water surface, or otherwise start shading other plants too much.
You can post regular pictures here and we can let you know 😊
For now the plants are spending a lot of reserves and energy converting to their new circumstances. You want to allow them to build a decent amount of new adapted growth before you trim them.
My recommendation is to allow them to grow a bit long (as above), and then carefully pull out (or cut right above substrate) the whole stemplant. Then you can remove from the bottom, a portion (or all) of the old emersed growth, and replant the tops that have submersed leaves and be adapted to your conditions. But not everyone does it like this, so theres no strict right or wrong. I think some scapers trim the tops and discard those, I guess their desire is to get the "scape" to look how they want it to as soon as possible. But that leaves behind unadapted growth, although they will retain their established roots.
I prioritize whole plant health, I dont want the old emersed stuff rotting in my tank, and it doesnt take the plant that long to make new roots, especially if the water column is not super lean. The submerse leaves will be able to uptake what the plants need and keep that nice momentum going since the growing point of the plants are intact. YMMV.
It is currently looking like 5 bps to get the full drop.
Dont mind the bubbles, they are very imprecise. They can be used to indicate whether gas is going into the tank, and if there might be "a lot of gas", or "very little gas", but they are not precise enough for finetuning. And they should not be compared from one system to another system, as many factors will be different. Bubble size, injection method, flow rate and offgassing, etc.
I am currently doing daily 70% changes. I am assuming I should take my initial ph reading right after the water change? Would it be better to do the water changes in the morning before photoperiod or right after the photoperiod? Right now I am doing them in the am, but was thinking right after lights out would degass the tank and add in a bunch of o2. Are there best practices here? Just something that occurred to me to consider or maybe just overthinking again.
I consider it ideal to not disturb the photoperiod (time that light is on), since this is when the plants are growing and doing the heavy lifting for a new system.
Since you are doing them daily right now, and not something like once a week, if your routine disturbs the plant growth then it is likely to have a bigger effect than if it just happened once a week.
If you do them in the morning I would suggest it should be finished before the CO2 turns on and starts ramping up. I dont know how long this time is for your system. Most people turn the CO2 on before the lights. This is to allow for that ramping up to the correct level. This way the CO2 is where it needs to be when the plants start going.
Or you could do it after the photoperiod, this might give you more time.
Not exactly sure what to do about kH right now. Earlier on I tried to raise it a little bit by adding some baking soda, but the soil pushed it right back down. I also am reading this article, that makes it sound like I should worry about it
I dont think you should fret about kh. Its just going straight into the aquasoil anyway, I dont see the point in saturating the aquasoil with carbonates as soon as possible. Most people want the aquasoil to grab nutrients, so "filling it with kh" doesnt really make sense. A lot of high tech tanks run with 0 kh with no ill effects.

I'm still getting a little ammonia --that amazonia is a persistent bugger--0.25 a few hours after water change and none right after. Nitrite is currently at zero and nitrate at 5-10. Not currently seeing significant plant melt outside a couple of crypts, but it sounds like this is very normal and a lot of times people remove the leaves before planting anyways. Any wilting or browning leaves I am removing as oberved.
:thumbup:
Right now using 4+ ml of APT Zero per day.
APT Zero, no nitrogen/nitrates or phosphate? Is this as advised by 2hr aquarist?
You are probably wise to stick to "one method" for now like you appear to be. Trying to mix methods can lead to a lot of mess and confusion.
That being said, we do like our fertilizer round these here parts. So keep an eye on the plants, post pictures of them and hopefully they wont go hungry :)
Emersed plants will have some reserves to draw on until they get roots established and can tap into the aquasoil. Invitro plants are less prepared (they dont have as much packed for lunch), so will be a little more reliant on getting something from the water.
 
Wont have done any harm :) I might have done the same if I knew it was going to be off for a while, especially with a relatively new filter that you want to keep all those new microbes alive in.
Easy mistake to make, the plants dont like drying out 😅 Setting a timer on to spray periodically can help, or wrapping exposed branches in tissue paper wetted with aquarium water will help too.
Theres a chance the moss will resprout from the brown, you'll just have to wait and see.
I was really disciplined about keeping it wet during the first tying session, but I think I got a little overconfident and in a hurry when I was fixing it and took my eye off it for a second. Great pro-tip about wrapping it with wet paper towel--I will for sure be doing that from now on!
How much glue do you have on your fingers right now 😁😁 This is an important rite of passage 😊

OMG so much. I had my shirt stuck to me jeans. I had it in my hair, and all over the place. Good to know this is normal...and maybe I entered a secret club??? :p

I prefer using gel type superglue if I have to use glue, and use as little as possible. The non gel type tends to run / pool out a bit for me, and it will cause larger white patches where it has done so once it comes into contact with water. There is a sort of magic ratio between wet and dry that makes the glue set almost instantly. It can be useful for attaching plants, because then you wont have to hold the plant down for very long. Too wet and the glue wont attach very well, too dry and it takes a long time to set. I like to have the hardscape somewhat wet and then apply a very small dab of glue to a moist plant. When you press the plant+glue down where you want it, if you got the ratio wet/dry right, it sets almost instantly. Sometimes you can spray the spot with water to accelerate as well.

Most plants are not fond of being glued, and will eventually rot where the glue touches them. If gluing rhizome plants, avoid gluing the rhizome directly, if you can. The roots are more tolerant of the glue. The moss is a bit difficult, just know that the part with glue on wont be very happy. So the goal is just to hold it down until it can attach itself. Not all mosses attach to hardscape, that makes them more annoying to deal with long term.

This is all super helpful, "next-level" info. Definitely seems a process that requires a good amount of finesse and this send me in a good direction for that. Thanks!
They will begin transitioning in new leaves as soon as they are produced. Rotala rotundifolia varieties for instance will go from round emersed leaves to more elongated submersed leaves.
Its a gradual process, so they will over time get longer and longer until they reach their final form.


I would not trim them for a while. Trimming/topping/cutting or otherwise disturbing a plant interrupts the growth. What makes a brand new high tech planted tank "hum" is all the plants actively growing. So you dont want to disturb that momentum until you actually have to. For stem plants for example, you could start thinking about trimming when the tops get near the water surface, or otherwise start shading other plants too much.
You can post regular pictures here and we can let you know 😊
For now the plants are spending a lot of reserves and energy converting to their new circumstances. You want to allow them to build a decent amount of new adapted growth before you trim them.
My recommendation is to allow them to grow a bit long (as above), and then carefully pull out (or cut right above substrate) the whole stemplant. Then you can remove from the bottom, a portion (or all) of the old emersed growth, and replant the tops that have submersed leaves and be adapted to your conditions. But not everyone does it like this, so theres no strict right or wrong. I think some scapers trim the tops and discard those, I guess their desire is to get the "scape" to look how they want it to as soon as possible. But that leaves behind unadapted growth, although they will retain their established roots.
I prioritize whole plant health, I dont want the old emersed stuff rotting in my tank, and it doesnt take the plant that long to make new roots, especially if the water column is not super lean. The submerse leaves will be able to uptake what the plants need and keep that nice momentum going since the growing point of the plants are intact. YMMV.

This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you!!! A couple of these stems have taken right off and growing like weeds, so it may be sooner than later. Also, good to know I can post pictures and get guidance when I think it is getting close.
Dont mind the bubbles, they are very imprecise. They can be used to indicate whether gas is going into the tank, and if there might be "a lot of gas", or "very little gas", but they are not precise enough for finetuning. And they should not be compared from one system to another system, as many factors will be different. Bubble size, injection method, flow rate and offgassing, etc.

I consider it ideal to not disturb the photoperiod (time that light is on), since this is when the plants are growing and doing the heavy lifting for a new system.
Since you are doing them daily right now, and not something like once a week, if your routine disturbs the plant growth then it is likely to have a bigger effect than if it just happened once a week.
If you do them in the morning I would suggest it should be finished before the CO2 turns on and starts ramping up. I dont know how long this time is for your system. Most people turn the CO2 on before the lights. This is to allow for that ramping up to the correct level. This way the CO2 is where it needs to be when the plants start going.
Or you could do it after the photoperiod, this might give you more time.

I forgot to mention I have it set for CO2 to start at 10 AM, 2 hours before "sunrise". Aiming to get the full point drop before lights on. I was out today, as it was dropping, but when I got home two hours in to the photoperiod it was there. I'll be home for it tomorrow, though so looking forward to verifying

I dont think you should fret about kh. Its just going straight into the aquasoil anyway, I dont see the point in saturating the aquasoil with carbonates as soon as possible. Most people want the aquasoil to grab nutrients, so "filling it with kh" doesnt really make sense. A lot of high tech tanks run with 0 kh with no ill effects.


:thumbup:

This was my hunch, thank you for the confirmation.
APT Zero, no nitrogen/nitrates or phosphate? Is this as advised by 2hr aquarist?
You are probably wise to stick to "one method" for now like you appear to be. Trying to mix methods can lead to a lot of mess and confusion.
That being said, we do like our fertilizer round these here parts. So keep an eye on the plants, post pictures of them and hopefully they wont go hungry :)
Emersed plants will have some reserves to draw on until they get roots established and can tap into the aquasoil. Invitro plants are less prepared (they dont have as much packed for lunch), so will be a little more reliant on getting something from the water.

After your message about this I looked a little closer at the guidance from 2hr. I have APT Complete and actually started out my plan with using APT Complete, and then changed to Zero right before getting started. I think I just started to worry about going too "hot and fast" early on, and not knowing enough to keep everything under control. Further, I think reading between the lines I think they recommend to start with APT Zero to prioritize stability and lower maintenance for beginners--an adaption to ADA's lean approach, as it were. More for a beginner that wants more of a "set it and forget it" system. Me, however, I got my eyes peeled to this tank like a newborn baby. I'm looking forward to long trimming sessions and keeping everything pruned and maintained. The whole process of nurturing and caring for this little ecosystem is why I'm here, after all. Therefore, I switched to APT Complete today. I appreciate you sending me back in the direction I would've been in if I hadn't once again overthought and second-guessed things. :rolleyes:

This was above and beyond my expectations for responses to my questions and concerns! You da man!
 
Hey all, hope everyone has a a great weekend.! Just finished 7th day straight of water changes, so I thought I would give a quick end of week one update. The last few days have been mostly in cruise control, following my plan and watching things slowly, yet very quickly grow.

The rotala especially is just growing like crazy, especially the straight Rotundifolia. One thing that has surprised me a bit is that each stem isn't growing more "straight up" , and instead falls every which way. Super long roots coming out of each leaf node, too--a little concerned that they are going to get all tangled up with each other and make a mess out of things. Another thing that keeps happening several are getting sucked in against the filter intake vent. Don't think this is something to be concerned about, but not sure. You can sort of see all of this in my 3rd picture. It looks a little like the skimmer has pushed it down, but I just put it there--that is how they are growing.

I am going to keep up with daily water changes for now until I get consistent zero ammonia readings. Today I got a zero reading after the change for the first time. Up to today, I get 0.25 after the change and as the day goes on it goes up to 0.5. It's been that way for about 10 days. Given tonight there was change to the pattern, I am hopeful this will be soon. Fingers crossed!

As things are settling in, and I just wait for things to grow out, my mind is starting turn to livestock for this bad boy. I also know I am in the middle of a honeymoon period wherein, the threat for algae blooms is relatively low, however that threat increases sooner than later, so I'd like to have my "cleanup crew" at the ready if/when this occurs. Thinking of stocking comprehensively with Nerites, Otos, and Amanos (subject to availability--they've been hard to find over here lately. Curious everyone's thoughts on this? My gH is locked in with APT S at 7, yet my KH is still less than 1. pH is around 6.1 right before the co2 turns ons and 6.45 when I degas it by hand-blending (and getting down to 5.33 with co2). If you recall, I am here because my daughter's new fish kept dying, so yeah, kinda important to me to not kill the first livestock added, hahahaha. on the other hand, i don't want to get in a rush to mess with a the stability of the tank, that may invite algae.

That's it for now. Thanks for reading!

May 7.JPEG
May7(2).JPEG
May 7(3).JPEG
 
A lot of Rotundifolia varieties will lean when growing, so this is to be expected 🙂
I have heard that they will lean more when they "feel" like there is a lot of space, so it is possible they could grow a little straighter once you have a crowded bush of them. Then they supposedly try to grow more upright to avoid being outcompeted by their neighbours. But I haven't tested this myself. H'ra and Green are known to be leaners for example 😁

For livestock I would do snails first, then shrimp, then otos. This is the order of sensitivity. Otos tend to be frail when they have been in transit/petstore, so they should usually go in last. And snails are hardier than shrimp.

Consider if "pest" snails are something you wouldn't mind having. They reproduce well even in fairly soft water, and since they are small they can get into all the nooks and crannies and small leaves that the big livestock cant get to. I think they do an absolutely stellar job of eating biofilm and algae, but some hobbyists hate them very much.
The Physella acuta snail is my favorite, it has an understated beauty with the golden speckled shell. And they move fast, so they can get to where the algae is in no time at all. You will not have a problem with "pest" snails if you dont overfeed or have a massively dirty tank. The population can only grow to the amount of food provided.

Im not personally a fan of amano shrimp, but they are an aquascaping staple. Make sure not to starve them, if they dont get enough food they will turn on your plants.
Cherry shrimp are a nice option too, but with your low kh im not sure they would thrive. You could consider one of the wilder types of Caridina, the hardier varieties? Check out Tangerine Tigers for instance. Avoid the "highly bred" fancy lines of Caridina, these tend to be very sensitive and might not be a safe choice right off the bat. I dont remember what you said your water source is, tap water (what kh?) or RO? This could affect which shrimp is recommended. But amanos should be ok with just about anything water wise.
 
A lot of Rotundifolia varieties will lean when growing, so this is to be expected 🙂
I have heard that they will lean more when they "feel" like there is a lot of space, so it is possible they could grow a little straighter once you have a crowded bush of them. Then they supposedly try to grow more upright to avoid being outcompeted by their neighbours. But I haven't tested this myself. H'ra and Green are known to be leaners for example 😁
If its expected that's all I needed to know. Started (over)thinking they were avoiding my light or something because it was too strong, or some other noob deficiency. Just making sure I'm not doing something wrong. :rolleyes::p
For livestock I would do snails first, then shrimp, then otos. This is the order of sensitivity. Otos tend to be frail when they have been in transit/petstore, so they should usually go in last. And snails are hardier than shrimp.

Consider if "pest" snails are something you wouldn't mind having. They reproduce well even in fairly soft water, and since they are small they can get into all the nooks and crannies and small leaves that the big livestock cant get to. I think they do an absolutely stellar job of eating biofilm and algae, but some hobbyists hate them very much.
The Physella acuta snail is my favorite, it has an understated beauty with the golden speckled shell. And they move fast, so they can get to where the algae is in no time at all. You will not have a problem with "pest" snails if you dont overfeed or have a massively dirty tank. The population can only grow to the amount of food provided.
Interesting...I've looked them (Acutas) up--they are actually in stock at Aquatic Arts (one of the best places I know of to buy livestock online). They do look like they'd be very useful for getting in all the nooks and crannies....And yeah, they look pretty cool, too! I'm wondering about a little more, though, why others "hate them very much", Hahahaha. You've definitely made me think more about something I hadn't considered. This is why I'm here, so thank you!

Im not personally a fan of amano shrimp, but they are an aquascaping staple. Make sure not to starve them, if they dont get enough food they will turn on your plants.
Cherry shrimp are a nice option too, but with your low kh im not sure they would thrive. You could consider one of the wilder types of Caridina, the hardier varieties? Check out Tangerine Tigers for instance. Avoid the "highly bred" fancy lines of Caridina, these tend to be very sensitive and might not be a safe choice right off the bat. I dont remember what you said your water source is, tap water (what kh?) or RO? This could affect which shrimp is recommended. But amanos should be ok with just about anything water wise.

Yeah, thinking the Amanos because that is what people say to get for your cleaning crew. The Tangerine Tigers look right up my alley, though, and they are in stock. Wondering if I got five, would that be enough for an initial stock, or more? They come in 5 packs, but I'm thinking 10.
 
I dont remember what you said your water source is, tap water (what kh?) or RO? This could affect which shrimp is recommended. But amanos should be ok with just about anything water wise.
My bad, I'm using RO/DI. APT S is the remineralizer I use, but that only raises GH (my current target is 7). My tap KH is also pretty low though also, I think 4, but the amazonina takes it down to 1 api drop (which I interpret as <1 dkH).
 
There are 2 types of hardness, Gh & Kh, It has to do with Ca (calcium) & (magnesium)
google
There are two types of water hardness: KH and GH. KH measures an aquarium's carbonate hardness, or the degree to which it is able to buffer against pH fluctuations. GH stands for general hardness, which measures the number of dissolved calcium and magnesium ions. GH is crucial for the growth of certain fish species.

I'm sure someone else can explain it better. & I to may understand it
 
Aaaaaaaaaaand we have our first visitors! It appears some diatoms and baby snails have stopped by to say hello. At least I think that is who is here:

IMG_1282(1).jpg
IMG_1283(1).jpg

IMG_1285.jpg
IMG_1286(1).jpg


So yesterday I was getting lost in my tank, and all the sudden I noticed that some of the leaves on several plants looked dirty. Then i got thinking about it a ;little more and realized it my be some algae, so I looked it up and at least to me it appears to be the start of some diatoms. And then today I was looking at thinks and noticed a tiny speck of something moving on one of the 'dirty leaves" and found these little guys. They are smaller than a half grain of sand. Guessing some sort of pest-snails, who's eggs hitchhiked here from Aquarium Plant Factory. And just hatched. Maybe I don't have to consider buying Acutas now, and they are already here...Just in time for some algae to show up. I love it when i plan comes together, and even better when it comes together without a plan! :cool:

Man that Rotala grows fast. All except the Colorata are just growing like weeds. Guessing about a week and they will start reach the top. Worried a bit about the Colorata though...research indicates they grow fast as well, which the speed isn't as much of a concern as the rotundifolia, which is just growing almost before my eyes, choking it out before the Colorata can reach critical mass also...

Anyways, these are my thoughts today and a picture update. Placing an order tomorrow for some snails and some shrimp. About to be a party up in this place! :)

IMG_1287(2).jpg
 
So yesterday I was getting lost in my tank, and all the sudden I noticed that some of the leaves on several plants looked dirty.
Having a quick squirt around with a Turkey Baster before water changes will help get rid any settled detritus on plant leaves.
Placing an order tomorrow for some snails and some shrimp.
Clithon Snails are also a good option to consider.
Cheers!
 
Maybe I don't have to consider buying Acutas now, and they are already here...
Yep, here they are 😁 Money saved 😉
They do tend to show up uninvited (all pest snails do), I think thats one of the reasons people dont like them.
They want to feel in control of their carefully planned and set up tank, and then life just finds a way and suddenly things are no longer entirely in control, beginning with uninvited snails 😁
So the snails sort of already start off on a negative impression, and then if one overfeeds or has a lot of decaying matter in their tank, the population will grow large and people want to try to kill them all off with chemicals instead of adjusting their food sources. But they are a really good addition to a tank in my opinion, and since they eat the biofilm of the plant leaves, they can stop the algae in its tracks before the algae even becomes visible.
They're free or cheap, wont need to be replaced since they're self sustaning, and dont require any special care :thumbup:

Worried a bit about the Colorata though...research indicates they grow fast as well, which the speed isn't as much of a concern as the rotundifolia, which is just growing almost before my eyes, choking it out before the Colorata can reach critical mass also...
They are all varieties of Rotala rotundifolia, so they probably just need a bit of time to even out. Sometimes the plants dont always start on the same level, the invitro cup or pots could be different ages, they could have been stored differently, could be all manner of things. So just give the Colorata some time 🙂
Anyways, these are my thoughts today and a picture update. Placing an order tomorrow for some snails and some shrimp. About to be a party up in this place! :)

View attachment 205128
Exciting 😊
It might be that the drop checker should not be quite as yellow when youre getting shrimp, their blood is different to ours and not as good at carrying oxygen, so shrimp sometimes struggle more in high CO2 levels than fish do.
I would try to stabilize it on a somewhat greener level before you add the livestock. Also, remember to not add livestock to a tank with CO2 injection actively running. The shock can be too great. Turn the CO2 and the lights off on the morning of a day you anticipate adding new livestock, so the water is neutral when they are acclimated. Drip acclimation is also usually a good idea for shrimp.
 
Hi all,
and found these little guys. They are smaller than a half grain of sand. Guessing some sort of pest-snails, who's eggs hitchhiked here from Aquarium Plant Factory. And just hatched. Maybe I don't have to consider buying Acutas now, and they are already here...
Definitely looks like <"Physella acuta">.

cheers Darrel
 
Oh I almost forgot, those light green shoots in your moss look a little bit like they may be Riccia fluitans to me. Was it added by you, or was your moss bought from a more casual source?
Dont be too alarmed, but I would consider if you want Riccia in your tank or not. It tends to be a bit invasive, and once its in a tank it can be hard to get rid of again, as any small fragment will be able to keep growing.
So if you dont want it then I would carefully remove any small bits that are now sprouting in your moss 😊
Dont get me wrong, many people intentionally use this plant in their tank for aquascaping and it can be quite decorative.
Its just that once you have it you really have it, and it might pop up where you dont want it as well :lol:

I might also be entirely wrong and its something else :thumbup:
 
Back
Top