Fertiliser may be affecting water analysis.

[Robert Fletcher]

I am addressing this questions to anyone using the “Evolution Aqua – The Aquascaper – Complete Liquid Plant Food” or anyone with similar experience with another like product.

Running CO2, I have been dosing my 110 litre tank at the ‘High” rate for a week now. Today I took it on to do a water analysis using the API Master Test Kit. Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate was off the scale but the fish looked happy enough, very well in fact.

I rang David at Aquarium Gardens who told me that in the shop they only test for CO2 and do the recommended water change. That I should follow this.

I do have full confidence there. However I am still puzzled by the reading. At that rate the fish should be dead. From my experience in medicine reagents can give false positives.

So has anyone found the same thing as I have?

Thanks….

 

[Roediger]

I am addressing this questions to anyone using the “Evolution Aqua – The Aquascaper – Complete Liquid Plant Food” or anyone with similar experience with another like product.

Running CO2, I have been dosing my 110 litre tank at the ‘High” rate for a week now. Today I took it on to do a water analysis using the API Master Test Kit. Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate was off the scale but the fish looked happy enough, very well in fact.

I rang David at Aquarium Gardens who told me that in the shop they only test for CO2 and do the recommended water change. That I should follow this.

I do have full confidence there. However I am still puzzled by the reading. At that rate the fish should be dead. From my experience in medicine reagents can give false positives.

So has anyone found the same thing as I have?

Thanks….

Hello.

I am new to planted tanks, and on ukaps site. From what i have learned from these good fellows is dont worry too much on fert readings. I have a test kit and was more worried about what the kit said, and not what the plants needed or their deficiency.

Since I stoped doing readings my plants look alot healthier and not 1 fish has died. And if it did.. it be from gasping them with co2.

None of my stock has died from high nitrate and phosphate lvls hooe this helps =)

 

[roadmaster]

If indeed ammonia and nitrites are off the chart's,fishes will be NFL (not for long).
Both are toxic.

 

[Robert Fletcher]

If indeed ammonia and nitrites are off the chart's,fishes will be NFL (not for long).
Both are toxic.

That is exactly what I am thinking. Looking at my fish at this moment they seem very happy and enjoyed breakfast. I think we probably use reagents too often. Thanks for your comment.

 

[PARAGUAY]

Check the kit expiry?Tend to just test for nitrite myself .

 

[Robert Fletcher]

Hello.

I am new to planted tanks, and on ukaps site. From what i have learned from these good fellows is dont worry too much on fert readings. I have a test kit and was more worried about what the kit said, and not what the plants needed or their deficiency.

Since I stoped doing readings my plants look alot healthier and not 1 fish has died. And if it did.. it be from gasping them with co2.

None of my stock has died from high nitrate and phosphate lvls hooe this helps =)

Thanks for your reply and I agree with you. I was interested in others experience. I will say my plants are growing well on this ferts.

 

[Robert Fletcher]

Check the kit expiry?Tend to just test for nitrite myself .

What ferts are you using?

 

[nel.pogorzelska]

Most fertilizers are composed of simple salts like KNO3. This NO3 ion is exactly the same thing that's dangerous to our fish if over 30-40 ppm. It's not some other magical insoluble NO3. Ammonia usually comes in form of urea. Urea is transformed into ammonia by bacteria and this ammonia is the same NH3/NH4 that is toxic to our fish, again no magical insoluble ammonia. So if your test works (sometimes they're faulty), if your fertilizers are like most other fertilizers, you definitely should do a water change.

Edit: there are some substances that make our tests go crazy... But never seen any in fertilizers, mostly in medicines.

 

[ian_m]

This NO3 ion is exactly the same thing that's dangerous to our fish if over 30-40 ppm

Err no. The lethal dose levels for nitrate in order of 1500ppm, way way beyond anything we should get in our tanks. Not been talking to local fish shop have you, offering to sell you a nice nitrate test kit (£20) and a nitrate absorbing sponge (£20) ? This is continual misinformation on nitrates we see all the time. After a pump failure I ran with 350ppm NO3 and 80ppm PO4 with no fish issue, no algae and more sadly no change in plant growth.

 

[nel.pogorzelska]

Err no. The lethal dose levels for nitrate in order of 1500ppm, way way beyond anything we should get in our tanks. Not been talking to local fish shop have you, offering to sell you a nice nitrate test kit (£20) and a nitrate absorbing sponge (£20) ? This is continual misinformation on nitrates we see all the time. After a pump failure I ran with 350ppm NO3 and 80ppm PO4 with no fish issue, no algae and more sadly no change in plant growth.

I'm not talking about killing fish, but harming them. And yes, 30-40 ppm nitrate for most fish will at least slow their growth and make breathing harder. I believe we should strike to make their homes good, not only tolerable. High nitrate will shorten their lifes, they won't die in a week, but slowly they'll be in worse and worse health.
Of course there're fish with better and worse tolerances. Otos usually are looking bad with NO3 around 30, guppies probably won't show any stress with 150.

 

[tam]

Try testing the water you are using for a change, and the water you are using for the change with the appropriate amount of ferts added. That will tell you roughly what's from the fish, the tap and the ferts. If your water/fish are producing enough nitrate/ammonia you could swap to a 'lite' fert or mix your own that doesn't include them. No point adding more if you've already got plenty.

 

[Roediger]

What ferts are you using?

I use IE dosing

 

[Konsa]

Otos usually are looking bad with NO3 around 30, guppies probably won't show any stress with 150.

Hi
I haven't seen any ill effects with adding NO3 from a salt in my low tech 40 ish litter tank.I dose daily and regularly up to full EI dose sometimes and often get high NO3 in water column .As for my Ottos in there they even bred and there is some fry still about.
The high NO3 if not added via salt (fert) and with good waterchange regime is often a sign of past Amonia spike gone unnoticed wich is indeed dangerous for fish.
Regards Konsa

 

[Roediger]

Try testing the water you are using for a change, and the water you are using for the change with the appropriate amount of ferts added. That will tell you roughly what's from the fish, the tap and the ferts. If your water/fish are producing enough nitrate/ammonia you could swap to a 'lite' fert or mix your own that doesn't include them. No point adding more if you've already got plenty.

My water was showing i had more then enough nitrates and my plants werent looking so good. After being on this site i just focus on dosing and wc. Only thing I am starting to measure is co2

 

[Roediger]

I'm not talking about killing fish, but harming them. And yes, 30-40 ppm nitrate for most fish will at least slow their growth and make breathing harder. I believe we should strike to make their homes good, not only tolerable. High nitrate will shorten their lifes, they won't die in a week, but slowly they'll be in worse and worse health.
Of course there're fish with better and worse tolerances. Otos usually are looking bad with NO3 around 30, guppies probably won't show any stress with 150.

Hi
I haven't seen any ill effects with adding NO3 from a salt in my low tech 40 ish litter tank.I dose daily and regularly up to full EI dose sometimes and often get high NO3 in water column .As for my Ottos in there they even bred and there is some fry still about.
The high NO3 if not added via salt (fert) and with good waterchange regime is often a sign of past Amonia spike gone unnoticed wich is indeed dangerous for fish.
Regards Konsa

Yeah same here. None of my ottos have died. Tested water yesterday after increasing Ei. Tanks has around 80 ppm atm in nitrates.

 

[techfool]

I use that fert too. I have recently reduced the dosage as my nitrate reading was high and why dose more than I have to? I do a weekly half-dose of micros (profito) to make up for it and to use up the bottle. I've had nitrate readings all over the place, particularly since I used to get 40ppm out of the tap (confirmed by the water board). The fish have shown no ill-effects but I feel that any ill effects would be long-term/ chronic rather than causing fish to drop dead overnight (unlike CO2).

 

[tam]

I think it's worth looking at what you are putting in. We know that Nitrate can cause long term health issues, and not keeling over instantly isn't the same as not effecting fish welfare.

You could have someone with nitrate in the tap water, high stocking density and plant choices with a lower demand for nitrates and they would end up with much higher nitrate levels than someone dosing exactly the same amount of fertilizer but with zero nitrates in the source water, low stocking density and plants that had a high nitrate demand.

If you care about fish, not just plants, then the ideal would be to reduce nitrates until you are only running with enough for the plants needs. If you know you get 40ppm nitrates from the source water, IMO the responsible thing is to reduce your EI dosing by the same. Excess nitrates have no benefits for plants and may well be detrimental to fish health, and, if that doesn't convince you, it's a waste of money too.

 

[OllieNZ]

I think it's worth looking at what you are putting in. We know that Nitrate can cause long term health issues, and not keeling over instantly isn't the same as not effecting fish welfare.

Any chance you can post any peer reviewed studies that support that? I've read a few regarding acute nitrate toxicity but nothing about long term.

 

[ceg4048]

We know that Nitrate can cause long term health issues

We also know that putting food in the tank can cause short term and long term health issues.
It would be better for fish if you did not feed them.

I've been using Nitrates for over 20 years and have yet to observe any long term health issues.

The level of dosing that we use in our tanks are nowhere near the toxic level, short term or long term for fish and invertebrates.

The OP would do well to stop testing and save his money and simply concentrate on keeping his tank clean and his plants healthy.

The advice he received from his supplier in post #1 was the correct advice, however, the advice he receives in post #17 is typical paranoid disinformation promulgated in The Matrix.

Cheers,

 

[tam]

The level of dosing that we use in our tanks are nowhere near the toxic level, short term or long term for fish and invertebrates.

That's not what I said at all. What I actually said was that the total nitrates from all the potential sources could add up enough to cause a problem for the fish. So, if you already have nitrates that are 'off the chart' then adding more via fertilisation was unnecessary and not going to help the issue.

I agree the amount of nitrates in fertiliser are fine. But they don't factor in nitrate from other sources - you have to do that for your individual tank. If you've got for example, an overstocked tank, lax water changes and your nitrates are running at 250ppm+ adding a bit more nitrate for your plants is, in my opinion, daft.

So yes, I do think it's worth thinking about where your nitrates are coming from if you get an excessively high reading.