Feeling Lost

[bbftb87]

Having kept mixed Mbuna in large unplanted tanks before I'm finding setting up my first planted tank has it's own set of issues and a very different set of considerations.

I don't really like the aesthetic of aqua soil and would like to have a nice natural sand at the bottom of my tank. The question is, what (if anything) should I put underneath?

Aquasoil? Compost? Aquasoil in mesh bags, or compost in mesh bags? Sand in foreground only with aquasoil covering the rest?

For aquasoil Tropica seems best for the budget and for compost John Innes no3 seems well recommended.

I like the idea of the mesh bag approach since it's easy to both add height and separate the substrate. Then I see people recommending crushed lava rock or gravel in the bags with aquasoil on top then finally capped by sand.

The more I read, the more indecisive I seem to become 🙃 I don't want to overcomplicate it all but as much as trial and error is great I'd like to get the initial set up done right and save myself a headache down the road once plants and fish have been added if possible.

So what would you recommend and why? What have you tried, and how did it work out? Pro tips welcome for someone who is admittedly prone to overthinking things 😄

If it helps the tank will be low tech (at least initially), I have TNC complete for water column ferts (since I saw numerous recommendations on here for it as an all in one) and a bag of 100 root tabs if needed.

Look forward to your input 😊

 

[tam]

Planted tank is a pretty wide description... do you have any more ideas of what sort of look you are aiming for? The variety of options is partly because different scapes lend themselves towards different solutions. If you thinking a lot of rocks with planting behind you'll often see the rocks used a divider for the substrate so planting soil at the back behind the rocks where you won't see it and sand at the front. If you want a carpet plant across the front, you probably want some sort of soil under your sand to help with the growth.

Tropica Plant Substrate (not soil) is designed to be used under sand/fine gravel which is another option you could consider.

 

[bbftb87]

I'm not sure yet. I appreciate the 'clinical' look more, though I must admit the heavily planted jungles are growing on me the more I see them 😂

I'd love to have something like the attached one day.

 

[bbftb87]

What I currently have is some rocks plonked in sand

 

[bbftb87]

Don't want to get too bogged down with plant selection / long term plans at the moment since I'm very new to it all and I know I'll have a long journey ahead of me, learning lots of things along the way. More a case of just getting the fundamentals right at this stage and I figure it's best to start from the ground up (literally, if you'll excuse the pun)

 

[richardcunliffe]

This type of look is definitely achievable with a foreground of sand and whatever else behind without compromising the look. In that way the sand can just be sand - generally a really thin layer looks nice (unless you plan to keep fish that have different ideas!) and then behind the hardscape you can have (for instance) bags of crushed lava rock underneath aquasoil.
Sloping sand paths are a different game, with a few possible techniques to achieve, varying in the amount of maintenance work you want to create for yourself 😛
You may not want any suggestions here, but have you considered making the big rock point inward rather than our of the tank? And making your path to the back a little more wiggly?
Once you've got some more substrate under the back that's also going to help give your layout a bunch more apparent depth

 

[Zeus.]

Plants will grow in an inert substrate there is less room for error in the Water Column fert dosing, as without an active substrate there is no buffering capacity. I gave sand in pots without any active substrate a go in my 50L Pot scape as an experiment. It went well IMO.
Part of the reason I did the experiment was because Aquasoil becomes inactive in time esp with hard water, so thought miss the expensive step of aquasoil and go straight to inactive substrate.

Some plants will fair better in a rich medium and other will fail altogether in sand or aquasoil unless the conditions are just right.

It's like a good gardener does when he gets a new plot of land, they spend some time 'few years' finding out what works well in the soil and location - then they do the garden

 

[ElleDee]

It's worth noting that soil with some fraction of organic content (aquasoil or a dirted substrate (see also: making mineralized top soil and Diana Walstad's book )) provides CO2 to the tank as the soil microbes decompose it. This is not important if you are supplementing co2, but if you are going low tech I think it makes a huge difference, particularly if you want to venture beyond the very easiest plants. Some people have trouble with too many organics in their dirted substrate, but it's very successful when done well.

 

[Fluxtor]

Glad I stumbled upon this post as I was about to post a similar question.

Hope the OP doesn't mind a small hijack as it's on topic (I think)!

I too am fairly new to this hobby and am in the design and planning process of my second tank. My first is somewhat a success but I always want to improve and up my game. The first tank I used purely aqua soil in the form of Fluval Stratum and I've had a huge battle with many types of algae and still battling cyano. Whilst the plants are surviving I feel they're not thriving so this time I want to do better! FYI the first tank is an all in one Superfish Quadro Pro 70 with the small addition of a wave maker for a bit of additional flow. The second tank is going to be somewhat different and massively over filtered and hopefully running C02. Without waffling on too much I'm going for a nature scape with an island type design in triangular layout (right to left). I'm using redmore and mountain rock and will probably go with mostly epiphytes and some foreground midground planting.

My substrate of choice is Colombo Nutribase as the soil or nutrient capped with pool filter sand. I've got some mesh bags and have put some of the Nutribase in these and started plonking my hardscape on top. My question is should I put all of the Nutribase in mesh bags and then cap with the sand or should I put some of the Nutribase loose? Another question that springs to mind is will the Nutribase under the hardscape be wasted as a lot of it won't even be planted in as covered with rock or wood so would I be better off using say lavarock in bags under the hardscape?

This is in early stages of design although I'm itching to get up and running. Again apologies for hijacking!

Some pictures attached for reference.

 

[tam]

My substrate of choice is Colombo Nutribase as the soil or nutrient capped with pool filter sand. I've got some mesh bags and have put some of the Nutribase in these and started plonking my hardscape on top. My question is should I put all of the Nutribase in mesh bags and then cap with the sand or should I put some of the Nutribase loose? Another question that springs to mind is will the Nutribase under the hardscape be wasted as a lot of it won't even be planted in as covered with rock or wood so would I be better off using say lavarock in bags under the hardscape?

This is in early stages of design although I'm itching to get up and running. Again apologies for hijacking!

Some pictures attached for reference.

There are a lot of variables, plants like crypts and swords will spread roots over the whole tank as they mature so they'll make use of nutrients in substrate even when it's under hardscape. However, if you want to add a lot of height, then rocks can be a cheaper/more structurally sound option - you can also mix the two.

You can't push plants into mesh bags, so you'll probably need a deeper layer of sand over as that's all you have for anchoring initially (they'll grow roots into it over time).

Mesh bags may help prevent mixing if you have any livestock that like digging or you move plants around... although you may also have a harder time moving plants anchored in bags.

There isn't really a wrong answer, people do it both ways and get good results.

 

[Fluxtor]

There are a lot of variables, plants like crypts and swords will spread roots over the whole tank as they mature so they'll make use of nutrients in substrate even when it's under hardscape. However, if you want to add a lot of height, then rocks can be a cheaper/more structurally sound option - you can also mix the two.

You can't push plants into mesh bags, so you'll probably need a deeper layer of sand over as that's all you have for anchoring initially (they'll grow roots into it over time).

Mesh bags may help prevent mixing if you have any livestock that like digging or you move plants around... although you may also have a harder time moving plants anchored in bags.

There isn't really a wrong answer, people do it both ways and get good results.

I guess experimenting is the way to go and learn by your own mistakes or experiences. Thanks for the input though!

 

[Spartacus]

Hello,

If it helps here is what I did.

I was not sure what to do in the end myself with regards to lava bottom layer / aqua soil then capped with sand. As I wanted to get Corydoras and they dig.

I put lava rock in large mesh bags then on top of those put aqua soil in medium sized bags to make a form of terrace. Then I added the sand - I am very glad I did so whilst it may be a pain pulling plants up I love how the mesh bags keep everything in place.

Made a lovely stable base for added heavy rocks 😊 It would be very good for making slopes and I would gladly do it all again!

Thanks,

Murray 🙂

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

I regretted putting aqua soil under my sand. It worked its way loose and then eventually ended up on the top making it look untidy. Water column dosing works fine for feeding the plants I keep. I’m not sure I’d want to go for a clean minimalist look though now I’ve kept plants for a while. The algae is always going to be there.

 

[Ehcosbie]

I had aqua soil in mesh bags on my first scape, with the bags built up a bit to create height at the back of the aquarium. Capped with sand and gravel sloping down to the front. Over time the capping layer flattened out and the mesh of the bags were exposed. If you are sloping your sand capping layer, then this may be a consideration for you.

 

[Wookii]

I had aqua soil in mesh bags on my first scape, with the bags built up a bit to create height at the back of the aquarium. Capped with sand and gravel sloping down to the front. Over time the capping layer flattened out and the mesh of the bags were exposed. If you are sloping your sand capping layer, then this may be a consideration for you.

Yep, I've found the same, sand will always flatten out over time. I've found it best to plan for that, and just assume a relatively flat substrate from the start, and build any height element with hardscape and plants. Or you can go extreme like I did in a previous scape, and have a physical barrier to retain the sand (or soil in this case): Sandy Nook . . .

 

[Fluxtor]

Yep, I've found the same, sand will always flatten out over time. I've found it best to plan for that, and just assume a relatively flat substrate from the start, and build any height element with hardscape and plants. Or you can go extreme like I did in a previous scape, and have a physical barrier to retain the sand (or soil in this case): Sandy Nook . . .

Neat idea but a bit extreme for me in my early days!

 

[Fluxtor]

So this is what I have so far and I'm still unsure if I'm doing the right thing. I reasonably happy with the layout as I don't want to be too fussy with this on only my second tank. I am wondering though whether this is too much nutri base for this size tank and I've gone with a mixture of some in bags and some loose which kind of contradicts the point of putting it in bags in the first place. This is about 2/3 of a a 5kg bag of nutri base in a 60 liter tank and I'm concerned there will be too much nutrients in the tank. I am considering a dark start if that helps or should I reduce the nutri base and get some crushed lava rock or something?

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

@Fluxtor How’s this going?

 

[Fluxtor]

@Fluxtor How’s this going?

@simon_the_plant_nerd So this is where I'm at currently. I trying the dark start method so will run like this with no light for a couple of weeks then drain down and get some plants in. Excuse the image quality it's just a screenshot from a video!