EZ-Life Ferts

[PBM3000]

Nope. Not some new brand of ferts - just me wanting an easy(er) life with my dosing regime.

Scratch that. I actually just want to save money!

My current dosing regime on my 240l moderately planted, low-tech (see pic) is as follows:

Mon: Flourish 2.5ml
Tues: Excel: 5ml
Wed: 1/16th tsp KH2PO4
Thu: Flourish 2.5ml, Excel: 5ml
Fri: Rest Day
Sat: 1/16th tsp KH2PO4
Sun: Excel: 5ml

Water Change: 10-20% every three weeks. Due to a three week shift cycle at work, my w/c day is pretty much set in stone and I've read that even less frequent w/cs on low-techs aren't uncommon. I'm also lead to believe that more frequent/larger water changes cause CO2 fluctuations which may have been exacerbating my GSA issue (I used to do 50% every three weeks).

The above regime seems to have alleviated an issue with my Swords getting holes and, more importantly seems to be making good improvement on widespread GSA on my Anubias. Fish health remains good.

However, I'm developing a serious intolerance to the cost of the 'readymix' Seachem bottles (great as they are, of course). My better half even more so! So, I've spotted the EI starter kit at aquariumplantfood.co.uk but they say that dosing should be cut by 50% for low-tech setups and, confusingly, elsewhere on the site that it should be cut by 1/3.

I really need to stick to the three week cycle for water changes so...

• Would the above kit work for my setup?
• Should I cut by 50% or 30%?
• I assume I'll still need to dose Excel? Daily?
• Are there better alternatives to this kit (apart from total DIY)?
• Would I be missing anything else with the kit? Iron etc?

Thanks for your consideration.

DHG "carpet" = pathetic!

 

[BarryH]

To add another product to your confusion, yesterday I spotted a YT video for Evolution Aqua Complete Liquid Plant Food featuring George Farmer. Although the discussions in the video were way over my head, the plant food did seem simple to use and was, an all in one daily dosage.

I have asked on here if anyone was using the EA Plant Food but as yet I haven't had any replies.

 

[PBM3000]

Thanks. Yes, I saw that too but if I recall they were talking about high tech so I switched of and went to Taylor Nicole Dean's channel instead!

 

[PBM3000]

I get the feeling I'm under-dosing...

 

[Konsa]

Hi
From what I read about your dosing you are adding only micro elements(Flourish) and a bit of potassium and PO4 from (KH2PO4) so is very likely that you are underdosing as doubt the K is enough and you dont add any NO3 too.
Then the Excel is supposed to be dosed daily as after 24 hours it wears off.The use of Excel also increases the demmand for the rest of the nutrients as it is a carbon sorce.
The EI starter kit is a complete range of fertilisers and all U need , cheap and easy to use.About the dosage U can start with a 1/3 and increase if U notice any deficiency.Its important to dose micro and macros on separate days as they will react with each other.
Swords are heavy root feeders so why not try some root tabs too.
Regards Konsa

 

[PBM3000]

Thanks for confirming what I've suspected: incomplete/under dosing! I'm about to order the kit (for convenience) and obtain dry powders from cheap sources going forward.

Anyone have an opinion on how often I should perform water changes with this new regime? I could start doing a weekly change with a python at a push but it'll be 'fast and furious' - unlike my current 3 weekly one in which I have ample time for gravel vac, pruning, cleanup etc i.e full attention and going slowly.

 

[Konsa]

Hi
The kit(is mix of powders and will have to mix them yourself ) is very well priced and will last U years.I will suggest if I need to get more powders as they are used in different ammounts get them from the same source as somethimes when getting them from places like ebay is a bit tricky as u never know what U getting exactly.
Tbh the general rule about water changes is to be done weekly.But it all depends on how your tank is stocked and your feeding and plant growth.If your stock is low,plants health good and U dont overfeed you may get away with less.I will suggest if you have chance to do weekly quick ones and once every month go in depth and do a trim of bad leaves and vac gravel etc.
What substrate are U using?
Regards Konsa

 

[PBM3000]

It's 'fairly well stocked' but with only the Platies being heavy producers of waste. Substrate is Dennerle inert gravel.

I'll do the weekly quick change; my only reservation being the large algae-causing CO2 swing it'll bring. Or so I've read...

 

[Konsa]

Hi
To be honest the CO2 swings by waterchanges in low tech tanks are a bit overfeared in my oppinion.You always will get CO2 swings in a way in low tech.I have different low tech setups some with very heavy surface agitation and vigorous gas exchange (low CO2 but more constant levels)and some without surface agitation (big CO2 fluctuations ) and I see no ill effects in all of them when doing 50% + water changes weekly.Its more beneficial to have good quality clean water going in.U can leave the water to stand and outgas the CO2 a drum or sth if U have where to fit one out of the way if is bothering you using it straight from tap.
If U have inert gravel its very beneficial to try some root tabs under the crypts and swords.
Also if using Excel daily changes the tank to being not so low tech so it won't make much difference even if the CO2 is fluctuating.
Regards Konsa

 

[PBM3000]

Okay, thanks. I'll trust your experience. Given that I'll be using lower doses than for high tech, do I still need to do 50%?

The tank has a good amount of agitation - I have a spray bar 2/3 the length of the tank pointed upwards at the surface, producing flow to the front glass and circling to the rear. Do you think I could eventually wean it off Excel altogether?

 

[Konsa]

Hi
By strong agitation I meant spray bar on top of the water and breaking the surface.
Anyway I am a firm supporter of big weekly water changes.But that's is only me.
You can observe the tank as it is unique system and U need to find what works best for U regarding how much ferts and how much water U will change.I will suggest start with 1/ 3 of EI and 50% waterchanges and then experiment with reducing the volume U change lets say to 30%.Just make sure U give enough time to the system to adjust (react) 3-4 weeks between changes should be ok.If its going fine with no ill effects you have your answer if not go back to 50%.Same about fertz if your plans show deficiency increase the dose.
As for stoping the Excel it depends on how strong is your light and will U have enough plant mass to sustain the balance of the tank. It may be tricky but is doable.
Regards Konsa

 

[PBM3000]

Thanks all.

Been dosing for a week or so now (including Excel). I'm not expecting grand-scale changes just yet but one observation is that daily TDS readings aren't increasing as expected (hovering around the 360ppm mark). Is this an indication that the plants are taking on the nutrients I'm giving them?

 

[ceg4048]

Hello,
The only indication you should look for is whether or not your plants are healthy growing. There is no exclusive relationship between TDS and nutrient uptake. There are simply too many variables affecting both the uptake as well as the TDS to draw any meaningful conclusions regarding the two.

Cheers,

 

[PBM3000]

Many thanks - and good to see you back! Your posts have been invaluable in the past, even via web search before I was a member here.

I'm not noticing any improvements in growth, per se, although I appreciate it's early days yet. GSA appears to be unaffected so I maybe need to work out somehow what to increase or decrease.

 

[ceg4048]

My current dosing regime on my 240l moderately planted, low-tech (see pic) is as follows:

Mon: Flourish 2.5ml
Tues: Excel: 5ml
Wed: 1/16th tsp KH2PO4
Thu: Flourish 2.5ml, Excel: 5ml
Fri: Rest Day
Sat: 1/16th tsp KH2PO4
Sun: Excel: 5ml

Hi,
Thanks for the very kind words. Life tends to get in the way of the things we are happiest doing unfortunately.
Examining the photo above, really this appears to be a very nice tank. The substrate seems very clean and the plants have very nice color. This is an outstanding achievement with your only source of CO2 being Excel.

Please note however, that Excel does in fact count as CO2, and if you are using CO2, in any manner, then it should be used consistently, which means dosing it daily. You are therefore not operating in the regime of a low tech tank. I understand that this is an expensive proposition for a large tank but you must pick your poison.

Being in the high tech regime also means that more frequent and larger percentage of water changes should be considered. The CO2 consumed by the plants drives their metabolic rate higher, which means they produce organic waste faster and with greater volume.

BBA is extremely difficult to combat, once entrenched. Not only must you adjust your technique, but you must also get rid of the blooms that are present because the paradox is that BBA love CO2 just like the plants do.

I would suggest therefore that you embark on an aggressive campaign of eradication.
For example, during a water change, if you can lift any of the affected rocks out and set them for 10 minutes in bleach, followed by heavy scrubbing with some abrasive pad or stiff brush, you can remove most of the growth. You'll need to do this regularly it is definitely not a one time affair.

For hardscape which is not practical to remove, lower the water level which exposes the affected area to air. Scrub as much as feasible then spray, pour, or paint on (using a paint brush) undiluted Excel. Let sit for 15 minutes or so.

Multiple large water changes combined with unrelenting mechanical attack used in conjunction with Excel is really the only way. Remember to dose Excel and nutrients immediately after the water changes.

Also, those large swords need to be tamed. While they do look impressive, they contribute to the problem by blocking flow distribution. You can remove a few of the largest leaves once a week or so to avoid system shock.

It takes a while but if you keep at it things will eventually come around.

Cheers,

 

[PBM3000]

Examining the photo above, really this appears to be a very nice tank. The substrate seems very clean and the plants have very nice color. This is an outstanding achievement with your only source of CO2 being Excel.

Thank you. I'm happy with it overall but I'm an eternal tweaker and the little things cause me sleepless nights!

Please note however, that Excel does in fact count as CO2, and if you are using CO2, in any manner, then it should be used consistently, which means dosing it daily. You are therefore not operating in the regime of a low tech tank. I understand that this is an expensive proposition for a large tank but you must pick your poison.

I'd always considered liquid the 'poor man's CO2' but I'm not yet ready to go for gas and I can't justify why. It might be the risk of upsetting the balance, the expense or just the general faffery involved! I'm now dosing 1/2 cap of Excel daily as I don't want to overdo it. Should I increase further?

Being in the high tech regime also means that more frequent and larger percentage of water changes should be considered.

Now changing 30-50% per week as a regime.

BBA is extremely difficult to combat...

It's actually GSA that's the problem. My new EI regimen (15ml of APF salts daily) doesn't appear to be beating it (and I've increased PotPhos by 1tsp for the mix)... any advice on that?

Also, those large swords need to be tamed. While they do look impressive, they contribute to the problem by blocking flow distribution. You can remove a few of the largest leaves once a week or so to avoid system shock.

I had thought of doing that but now definitely will.

 

[ceg4048]

It's actually GSA that's the problem. My new EI regimen (15ml of APF salts daily) doesn't appear to be beating it (and I've increased PotPhos by 1tsp for the mix)... any advice on that?

GSA is also problematic because it is caused by any combination of poor CO2 and poor PO4.
Since it is difficult to determine exactly which degree, the best approach is to attack both avenues.
So I think you are on the right track but I would not make radical changes.

I'm not at all suggesting that you switch to gas. As you mention, there are lots of legitimate reasons NOT to switch to gas - I was only concerned that you might be reluctant to increase your consumption of Excel, because the liquid isn't cheap either.

If you've only recently started the daily dosing I suggest you stick with that for a few weeks and observe. Afterwards, the daily dosage can be increased.

Any leaf that is severely attacked by GSA should be remove because that leaf will never recover and will only contributes to the problem.

My new EI regimen (15ml of APF salts daily) doesn't appear to be beating it (and I've increased PotPhos by 1tsp for the mix)... any advice on that?

I've actually lost track of all the various brands and products. I'll have to investigate because I assumed this was a powder but it appears it's dissolved in water and I have no idea of the components and their concentration. If you are dosing per their suggestion it should be fine. Let me get back to you on that but the plants look good generally, so there is little incentive to increase. As you increase CO2 however, the nutrient consumption will also increase, so just keep an eye out for any new symptoms. This is the paradox of CO2.....more CO2 can cause more problems.

Cheers,

 

[PBM3000]

That's reassuring, thanks. Yes, I was referring to Aquarium Plant Food's dry powders (aquariumplantfood.co.uk) that you mix into solution.

I note you suggest removing the GSA as much as possible - I hadn't realised its mere presence will compound the problem so will address this ASAP and going forward. My entire back glass is coated with it (which hasn't really bothered me so far) so I'll clean that off soonest.

 

[ceg4048]

That's reassuring, thanks. Yes, I was referring to Aquarium Plant Food's dry powders (aquariumplantfood.co.uk) that you mix into solution.

OK, thanks for the clarification. Yes it's the case with various algal types that fixing the original cause does not get rid of the algae that is present, so even if you improve the conditions, you have to harass the occupying algae and evict them. This could take a while but you'll have to be as obnoxious as they are and scrub repeatedly.

I note you suggest removing the GSA as much as possible - I hadn't realised its mere presence will compound the problem so will address this ASAP and going forward. My entire back glass is coated with it (which hasn't really bothered me so far) so I'll clean that off soonest.

Well, yes. Algae that is present produces more algal spores, which grow up to be more algae, which produce more algal spores... ad infinitum..

Cheers,

 

[PBM3000]

I've upped my liquid carbon dosing regime to a strict 5ml per day, now adding 20ml of APF solutions daily with a weekly 50% wc, scrubbed the back glass and offending rocks.

GSA is still occurring but at a MUCH reduced rate.

Thanks to the sage advice here, a month later I seem to be doing ok...