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Evergrow IT5080 pro LED salty lights on freshwater

charliek

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Hello plant/light gurus :)

I'm converting back to freshwater after a lengthy stint with marines, and am wondering if anyone has experience of using a marine-centric light like mine on a freshwater planted tank?

It's an Evergrow IT5080 pro, and has been modded to allow me easy control of the lighting channels.

I'm cycling the tank at the moment, so it's empty save for water and hardscape. My plan for plants isn't overly ambitious: Anubias, Anubias Nana, Salvinia, Java fern, Java moss, Christmas moss to start.

With the white channel set high, reds and greens dialled back, blues very low, and UV off, it looks sane to me, and seems to give peaks in the right places - but without a par-meter to hand, I can't be sure. I'd welcome any experience anyone can share.

Lighting.png
 

oreo57

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Hello plant/light gurus :)

I'm converting back to freshwater after a lengthy stint with marines, and am wondering if anyone has experience of using a marine-centric light like mine on a freshwater planted tank?

It's an Evergrow IT5080 pro, and has been modded to allow me easy control of the lighting channels.

I'm cycling the tank at the moment, so it's empty save for water and hardscape. My plan for plants isn't overly ambitious: Anubias, Anubias Nana, Salvinia, Java fern, Java moss, Christmas moss to start.

With the white channel set high, reds and greens dialled back, blues very low, and UV off, it looks sane to me, and seems to give peaks in the right places - but without a par-meter to hand, I can't be sure. I'd welcome any experience anyone can share.

View attachment 198137
Well first off you can "dry measure" the light using a Lux meter or a "PAR APP" on your phone.
Just set the light to your estimated height and estimated color/intensity settings over the tank to substrate distance.
For lux divide reading by approx 60.
As to look one "philosophy" is set red/green at 100%
Add reg. blue to taste to make white.
Add white for power
Add violet/uv for "purple".. ;)

Ignore Royal blue. Plenty in the whites.. unless you like it.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS @oreo57 is your man for information about the light, but it should be fine, and you won't need to run it <"reef bright"> for those plants.
I'm cycling the tank at the moment, so it's empty save for water and hardscape. My plan for plants isn't overly ambitious: Anubias, Anubias Nana, Salvinia, Java fern, Java moss, Christmas moss to start.
I'm hoping that understocking, and a probably vastly over-spec'd sump, will allow me to maintain a relaxing and appealing tank without having to behave like a mad scientist in a laboratory. Let's see how it goes
Plant list looks fine. I'm an epiphyte - Aroid, moss, fern (<"and floater">) fan as well.

You might want to add a quick growing stem as well for starters (@GHNelson might have some suggestions)? The stem doesn't need to be planted and then add in some Cryptocoryne spp in the longer term?
........ I'd also get some more Cryptocoryne spp., any that take your fancy would do, but C. wendtii or C. beckettii cultivars and C. x willisii are all pretty bomb proof.......
You don't actually need to cycle the tank with ammonia, it isn't really relevant to planted tanks <"Best way to cycle a second filter">. You can just plant and wait for the plants to grow in, grown in plants = fish safe.

Same with the sump media, we <"don't need denitrification">, the plants will mop up all forms of fixed nitrogen, so ideally we want our sump to be a <"nitrate factory">.
.......Because we have a continual trickle of threads on the <"best way to start a tank"> and <"cycling"> - <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements"> I thought I'd start a new thread. .......
Have a look at <"The scientific background to the "Leaf Colour Chart""> & <"The nitrifying microbes in aquariums and cycling">.

cheers Darrel
 

charliek

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Thank you Darrel, that's really helpful.

I do like Cryptocoryne and will be looking into it if the Acara aren't too diggy.

To be honest, I default to ammonia for cycling - probably because I've tended to think fish first rather than plant first... I hope that's not sacrilege hereabouts!

If I take the "when the plants are grown in it's fish safe" approach, where do the nitrifying bacteria come from, and where do they get their ammonia before the fish arrive?
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
I do like Cryptocoryne and will be looking into it if the Acara aren't too diggy.
Depending on the tank layout you might be able to protect them initially with some rounded pebbles? I'm going to guess that if your Acara want to dig a spawning pit not much will stop them.
probably because I've tended to think fish first rather than plant first... I hope that's not sacrilege hereabouts!
No, not at all, we are a <"pretty broad church"> and usually we are fairly friendly. A <"number of members"> found their way to UKAPS after falling foul of "moderation" <"on other forums">.

I think that <"fish welfare"> is something that we are all interested in. I'll be honest my main reason for trying to get fish keepers to be <"planted fish keepers"> is because it is <"much easier to maintain water quality"> in planted tanks, and improved water quality makes fish keeping a lot simpler and more enjoyable.
If I take the "when the plants are grown in it's fish safe" approach, where do the nitrifying bacteria come from, and where do they get their ammonia before the fish arrive?
So that is the really big difference, we now know that the bacteria that we thought were responsible for ammonia oxidation (Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas spp.) don't actually occur in aquarium filters. Dr Tim Hovanec (who I have a lot of time for <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">) writes about this in <"Bacteria revealed">.

They were a "best guess" based on the microbes you isolate and grow from sewage treatment, and for them to grow in vitro you needed high ammonia loadings and high carbonate hardness. I'll be honest I was always sceptical about the proposed linear nature of cycling, because it <"doesn't make any ecological sense">. I'd also visited a lot of wastewater treatment works by then, and I knew that the plant operators and scientists were much more interested in <"dissolved oxygen levels"> that they were <"in levels of TAN">.

Once scientists could look for the genes that coded for ammonia oxidation they found that that they were very widespread in the environment and there were a whole suite of microbes involved in nitrification that had previously been unknown.

Have a look at: <"The nitrifying microbes in aquariums and cycling"> it is a pretty good summary of where we are now. You might need a beer (or a cup tea) before you start because it is quite a long read.

cheers Darrel
 

charliek

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Depending on the tank layout you might be able to protect them initially with some rounded pebbles? I'm going to guess that if your Acara want to dig a spawning pit not much will stop them.

That's likely to be where I'll go next - once I've gained some experience with plants and Acara. My starting position of "you know nothing, Jon Snow" has served me well in the past, so my initial plan is simple and modest - and I'll be sticking (no pun intended) to plants that can be fixed to hardscape, so that they can be moved easily when I learn new things about light, flow, position, fish, etc., etc.

No, not at all, we are a <"pretty broad church"> and usually we are fairly friendly. A <"number of members"> found their way to UKAPS after falling foul of "moderation" <"on other forums">.

So far, you all seem very nice :)

I think that <"fish welfare"> is something that we are all interested in. I'll be honest my main reason for trying to get fish keepers to be <"planted fish keepers"> is because it is <"much easier to maintain water quality"> in planted tanks, and improved water quality makes fish keeping a lot simpler and more enjoyable.

And that, right there, is the key evolution in my thinking: by seeing plants as an afterthought (and, worse, an expendable one) in the past, I have been neglecting one of the most important pillars in maintaining a stable ecosystem.

Plus, you know, they're quite aesthetically pleasing ;)

[then, I was asking "if don't trigger cycling with ammonia but with plants, what kickstarts the nitrification cycle?"]
So that is the really big difference, we now know that the bacteria that we thought were responsible for ammonia oxidation (Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas spp.) don't actually occur in aquarium filters. Dr Tim Hovanec (who I have a lot of time for <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">) writes about this in <"Bacteria revealed">.
[...]
Once scientists could look for the genes that coded for ammonia oxidation they found that that they were very widespread in the environment and there were a whole suite of microbes involved in nitrification that had previously been unknown.
[...]
Have a look at: <"The nitrifying microbes in aquariums and cycling"> it is a pretty good summary of where we are now. You might need a beer (or a cup tea) before you start because it is quite a long read.

I'm not afraid of a little light reading :)

I'm particularly keen to understand more about your suggestion that I needn't trigger cycling by adding ammonia (in my case, pure - but presumably that also applies to raw shrimp, excess food or grimace hardy fish). Instead, I can plant my tank and, once the plants begin to thrive and grow, I can safely assume the water to be safe for fish.

I can readily understand the end-state: once the plants are thriving and growing (as distinct from just surviving), then they must be getting nitrogen. If they are getting nitrogen, and I'm not providing it, it must be coming from somewhere.

I can also extrapolate from that, and 'safe for fish', the implication that the nitrogen is coming from some kind of nitrifying system - I'd assumed Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas but am happy to believe that it may be more complex than that. For it to be 'fish safe' that nitrifying system must be breaking down - or immediately able to break down - ammonia.

So my question is "what prompts the spontaneous creation of a nitrifying system before the input of ammonia"? For example, are earlier and less successful plants dying and decomposing to provide the ammonia for later, thriving ones? Is this the 'hardy fish' cycle, but with plants?

Or is it something else?

I'll read on, and see what I can learn...
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
I'm particularly keen to understand more about your suggestion that I needn't trigger cycling by adding ammonia (in my case, pure - but presumably that also applies to raw shrimp, excess food or grimace hardy fish). Instead, I can plant my tank and, once the plants begin to thrive and grow, I can safely assume the water to be safe for fish.
I'm really keen to avoid the <"sacrificial fish"> scenario, I want the tank to be <"entirely fish safe"> before any fish get anywhere near it. I'm a cautious person, and that is why I'm keen on <"plant and wait">, it has a very low probability of failure.

Have a look at <"Seasoned Tank Time">. Stephan Tanner also talks about stability in <"Aquarium biofiltration">.

Microbes
Purely in microbial terms it is back to the microbes that <"actually perform nitrification">. There is a whole range of them, of which the most important for us are probably Ammonia Oxidising Archaea (AOA) and COMAMMOX Nitrospira. It looks very likely that there is a stable core of these and that the other "players" flit in and out as the <"ammonia loading changes">.
<"Freshwater Recirculating Aquaculture System Operations Drive Biofilter Bacterial Community Shifts around a Stable Nitrifying Consortium of Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea and Comammox Nitrospira">

It looks likely that there are nitrifying organisms in nearly all circumstances, so in terms of a source they will arrive with the plants, with any non-sterile water, filter sponge, substrate, soil etc. The one place they are less likely to arrive from is actually a <"commercial bacterial inoculant">, purely because it will have been produced in a <"bioreactor at high ammonia loadings">.

Plants
can readily understand the end-state: once the plants are thriving and growing (as distinct from just surviving), then they must be getting nitrogen. If they are getting nitrogen, and I'm not providing it, it must be coming from somewhere. I can also extrapolate from that, and 'safe for fish', the implication that the nitrogen is coming from some kind of nitrifying system -
Plants take up all <"forms of fixed nitrogen"> and, the TAN (NH3 / NH4+) they take up directly doesn't enter microbial nitrification and the "spare oxygen"> <"plants produce"> allows the tank to deal with a larger bioload.

I like a <"floating plant"> (all right, I'm <"obsessed by them">) because they have access to <"415 ppm CO2"> and can respond rapidly to increases in ammonia etc.

Diana Walstad wrote about this as the <"aerial advantage">.

cheers Darrel
 
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