Dwarf Puffer sexing??

[zozo]

I'd be interested to hear how you get on - sounds like we have the same aim - breed some puffers

Something else I forgot to mention that I've noticed now my puffers are in their new tank. When they're asleep/settling down - they seem to attach/stick themselves to a flat surface - even vertical surfaces such as tank sides and filter tube. Have you noticed this? I can't find much online about it (a couple of references to big marine puffers).

I don't think I saw it before as in the larger, heavier planted tank they tended to disappear for the night. A bit more obvious in the newly planted low tech...

Cheers
Mark

Yup they do!? Realy funny to see, it's like they are realy sleeping, normaly as described their eyes change color from black to blue when you shine light in it. I saw one yesterday evening laying flat on it's belly on a plantleaf after lights out in the back of the tank. I use verry dimmed night light and at first i saw something looking rather strange, i thought there might be something wrong with it. Looked kinda dead in the dimmed night light.. Took a little flashhlight to inspect and see what was going on it's eyes stayed dull and completely still, like there was a lid over it. And this evening saw it again few inches from the glass on the driftwood on a inclined surface, indeed laying flat on it's belly on the wood and not moving a muscle.

Haha, realy!? Sleeping fish.. They are some tiny special characters those puffers..

I realy hope they grow up as sweet as they are now and able to stay in this tank.. Till now they are not intrested in shrimps, not even tiny baby shrimps and noth bothering other fish. Did read some horror stories about these little holigans killing off everything crossing their path when fully matured.

 

[zozo]

Little update.. I have 2 males..
Here see the distinct wrinkels behind his eyes.. That's a typical male feature.

As far as i can say now, a 120 liter tank is definitely to small for 2 puffers of same sex.. Their territory as rather large, the subdominant male was getting frustrated and agresive to other fish he was especialy agressive towards the barbs and biting fins. He had nobody else to pick on and constantly chased away by fatso above.
He has a temporary home for himself now and getting a bigger place soon. The male on the pic above doesn't yet show this behaivor and is sweet as can be. He is the boss, the big tank is his now..

 

[Lindy]

That is a good photo showing the wrinkles, I could never get one that good. Have you seen them change shape? I got another 2 hoping they would be girls and take the pressure off the one female I had as he was a bit of a sex pest. They must have been male as my boy went balistic and was flattening himself so he looked coin shaped from the side, pressumably to look bigger as he chased the poor youngsters around the tank. They were immediately removed and rehomed!

 

[Greenfinger2]

Hi Marcel , One superb photo is that with your new camera.

Sorry to hear about the problems with the puffers They look so cute I was thinking of getting some. Now reading your thread I am rethinking that as my biggest tank is only 85 liters so that's way to small as they can get aggressive towards each other.

Hope all go's well mate

 

[zozo]

That is a good photo showing the wrinkles, I could never get one that good. Have you seen them change shape? I got another 2 hoping they would be girls and take the pressure off the one female I had as he was a bit of a sex pest. They must have been male as my boy went balistic and was flattening himself so he looked coin shaped from the side, pressumably to look bigger as he chased the poor youngsters around the tank. They were immediately removed and rehomed!

Hi Idcgroomer thanks.. Few weeks back the wrinkles still didn't show, that's why i thought i had a boy and a girl.. The other doesn't have such a fat belly and more yellow and the chest stripe, but always shy's away from me. This one is realy getting fat and grows well, and has no chest stripe i noticed the wrinkles from this photo this afternoon, so it was kinda dissapointing to see it. This one is realy like a little puppy, it comes immediatly to the glass when he sees me and stay in front of my face a while probably beggin for food, he also eats from the tweezers. If i do not pay attention he goes his own way again after a few minutes. He's the most dominant one and always picking on the other.. Thought it was a grumpy girl, but definitely a boy. With the naked eye the wrinkles do no show that clear, they move to much around to notice. The both grow well, the one in the pick grew the most and changed chape, the other stayed behind a bit only grew a few millilmeter but didn't change much in appearance.

 

[Lindy]

The wrinkles might get more noticeable. My boys were iridescent and quite beautiful. He was very moody and grumpy while the female used to follow me along the glass. I think she was trying to say " get me out of here, he is a nutter"!

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[zozo]

Hi Marcel , One superb photo is that with your new camera.

Sorry to hear about the problems with the puffers They look so cute I was thinking of getting some. Now reading your thread I am rethinking that as my biggest tank is only 85 liters so that's way to small as they can get aggressive towards each other.

Hope all go's well mate

Hi Roy thank you Yes the pic is made with the Fujifilm just a quick snapshot.. Well it aint realy a problem it's just the risk you take with taking couples of puffers. They are just territorial and solitary when adult, the difficulty is the sexing.. But because they are solitary it aint a sad thing to keep just one puffer solo, they realy do not mind. In nature they do the same, only school as juvenile for protection and when sexualy mature they only mate up for reproduction. Even the mating doesn't go without scratches and when done they go solitary again. So 85 liter densly planted for 1 puffer is more than enough and they do not need a mate.

I also noticed i made a wrong choice with putting 2 puffers in the same tank with that Indian High fin barb, these are realy very active fish and constantly playing and chasing eachother. Very curious and always up front to inspect what's going on. They are to active and to cocky and so there for the tank to small for this combination. They just don't mind their own bussines and one puffer was just intimidated by the barbs, i even saw the barbs chalanging the puffer.. But the grumpy puffer has a sharp beak and the barb a long fin. Not the best combination i learned from this.. Never seen such cocky and curious barbs before.. So the less dominant puffer took his frustration out on the barbs. The dominant puffer also isn't realy charmed by the barbs cockiness, but he's luckily not frustrated and he gets respect and the barbs learned the body language by now and back off. And the lesser dominant puffer had to stay among the barbs there was no other place for him, so there was constant confrontation.

Also have the 2 sp. dwarf rasboras, which stay upper region and just mind their own bussines. Puffy doesn't even look at them they never even cross eachothers path. Also the 3 croaking gurami's mind their own bussines and are most of the day in the dense java ferns..

I got 3 tanks now and the 4th is comming this summer, so i knew i took a risk with taking 2 and was prepared to move them if necessary.. And it was..

 

[Gill]

Was given 3 of these last week as they had not sold for £4. oh how i have missed these characters. such fun to watch, been harvesting snails for them and to watch them scouring every nook and cranny to see what there is to munch on is very entertaining.

 

[alto]

Thanks for the update - not as hoped but great information

 

[zozo]

Indeed Alto, not as hoped but still very educative and intresting to see those characters develop from juvenile to adult and how things work in fish communities..
It's funny to see how they interact and even learn eachothers body language.. For example the puffer thinks he spots some food and races towards it and those barbs pick this up immediately and follow to get a piece of the cake.. And the puffer gets intimidated buy this and charges back at the barbs to defend his personal space. As soon as the puffer takes his threatening posture the barbs backoff and group up like a hungry pack of wolves and still stay close. There is enough space and brooken eyelines in the tank to make this work with 1 puffer, but 2 was to much.. Puffers to territorial and the barbs to nosy.. So the puffer which was aways chased back into the barbs territory was constantly bordered by the barbs. As juvenile he took it well but while maturing he got confident and slowly started to pick fights and get realy fysical and inflicting damage..

I can only recomend people who want to go with puffers to take tank setup and character combination highly into considereation.

The general guideline given in the databases and fan forums is to lean and to average, imho more guiding toward minimum requirments and failure then succes.. I would say, as small as they are but in community at least near the 100 liter if not more per dwarf puffer and very well setup with lots of driftwood and dense planting.

 

[zozo]

Here a short close up vid of Master Puffy gaurding his most precious possession.. But the darn thing doesn't want to come out when he's around.
These size of snails can take a few bites before ending completely on the dinner plate.. anything smaller doesn't survive for long.

 

[markk]

I've been meaning to post the latest on my puffers and yesterday's tank activity has finally prompted me...

My new puffers have come on really well and it turned out I have 3 females - the original large lady and 2 newbies - and 4 males.

Sexing them really is very simple once they've matured a little. The females are, to put it politely, rotund - almost a traditional puffer shape. They seem to have much larger spots/blotches on their sides and dorsal area with freckled bellies.

The males are much more colourful - most notably around the belly and tail area. The keel is really pronounced, not just the bar on the belly but the shape as well - they are much more 'laterally compressed' - to use the scientific term. The eye wrinkles are there but you only really notice them when the light is at just the right angle.

Unlike Marcel, I've had them in a fairly small tank (ADA 45P) while they're growing - with a view to splitting them up when the aggro starts.

So yesterday afternoon I noticed that there was a lot of activity in the tank. Lots of chasing around (nothing extreme) and all of the fish were 'coloured up' (i.e. the patterning/colouring was really on display). I watched them for a few minutes, thinking about where I was going to re-house some of them - all of my other tanks currently have shrimp 'projects' on the go, so was slightly worried.

Only then did I realise that it was one of the new females who was getting all of the attention and when she started to lie on the bottom and wriggle her way into tight spots around some of the wood/moss/rocks - the penny dropped. For the next hour and a half all four males bickered and squabbled and nibbled away at her - very clearly trying to mate. Very amusing to watch and totally unexpected. No eggs that I can find - though apparently it's normal for the first few attempts to fail. Will also add a big clump of moss today - as apparently the females like to lay inside it.

Will try and get some photos/videos if it happens again.

 

[Lindy]

My pair did this mating malarky on a daily basis, the male being a real sex pest. My female would end up hiding from him. I would separate a pair if you want to try breeding. They only drop a few eggs each time and the fry are apparently hard to raise as they are so small. It isn''t really fair to expect the female to cope with the advances of 4 males though especially in such a small tank where she can't really get away. The wee b#ggers can get pretty violent when the female doesn't want to play ball.

 

[Lindy]

- they are much more 'laterally compressed'

I only saw this on my male when he was being very aggressive to 2 new puffers I had added in the hope of spreading the sex pests attention. Unfortunately they turned out to be young males. My existing male (Rambo) set about them, flattening himself presumably to look bigger. If yours look like this all the time it may be because there are so many in a small space.

 

[zozo]

lol Lindy, reading your reply i feel kinda glad i do not have a female with them and feel lucky i'm ended up with 2 males.. You make'm sound like little perverted rapists..


Since i've separated them everyting is going fine now. I left the dominant one in the big community tank and he's behaving very peacefull.. He even gets shased around by the male croaking gourami and kinda avoids him by now. Whe he sees the pumila comming near he goes the other way. He also is very focussed on what i do, he knows i feed him and as soon as he sees me he pufs up gets a darker color and comes up to my face following me around and tries to stay in my vision. I have the idea they know i see them too. I sometimes also see him chase his own mirror image in the back panel, since i have no back panel cover but a black wall behind the tank which makes the back panel mirrors a bit. Then he changes color, much brighter yellow and shape indeed compressing a bit like a bullit and speeds up and down the backpanel like he's chasing himself around.

That other agressive brawler is completely solo now and has his own little jungle with a few cherry shrimps he seems not to bother.. He has a complete different character, he doesn't like me at all and hides as soon as he sees me. He keeps hidden even at feeding time and i have to take my distance before he plans to come out of hiding and take the food. They are very funny fish, sometimes he comes looking very slowly and shy comming around the corner and flashes away again when i'm still to close.

Anyway after observing their character and behaivor for a while and reading your stories and all other info i found.. I'll keep it like that and i'm not going to introduce more puffers. Even if i could get a female for 100% sure i still think they need to be kept solitairy and only introduced during mating time and after the job is done separeted again. It seems according all info i can find, this is how it works in nature as well, living solitary till the heat is on.. I'm not equipt for that and then suppose they mate with succes, i wouldn't know where to place all the youngsters. i would get myself into trouble with all those puffers wouldn't know where i could bring them to.

 

[markk]

My pair did this mating malarky on a daily basis, the male being a real sex pest. My female would end up hiding from him. I would separate a pair if you want to try breeding. They only drop a few eggs each time and the fry are apparently hard to raise as they are so small. It isn''t really fair to expect the female to cope with the advances of 4 males though especially in such a small tank where she can't really get away. The wee b#ggers can get pretty violent when the female doesn't want to play ball.

Yes - I'm keeping a close eye on them but at the moment, everything is peaceful. There was a little more activity yesterday afternoon but apart from that they all seem to be quite docile and well behaved - though I did a large water change yesterday morning followed by a distraction of a handful of scuds which kept them occupied

I'm not too worried about feeding any youngsters - plenty of microworms, brine shrimp, moina/cyclops etc to get them going should it happen.

I only saw this on my male when he was being very aggressive to 2 new puffers I had added in the hope of spreading the sex pests attention. Unfortunately they turned out to be young males. My existing male (Rambo) set about them, flattening himself presumably to look bigger. If yours look like this all the time it may be because there are so many in a small space.

It was most obvious when they were pumped up the other day - normally it's less obvious. I may just have been lucky with this group or perhaps the relatively small tank keeps the worst of their behaviour in check - or maybe all hell will break lose at some point. I have a tank ready now!

regards, Mark

 

[Lindy]

I think fry are so small they need infusoria. There is a bit on breeding on the dwarf puffer website. The parents have to be removed after spawning too as they will eat fry.

 

[Lindy]

Of course now I go to find this website again a few years later and cannot find it! Good luck with the breeding.

 

[zozo]

The devil has awoken.. .. Few months ago i introduced 3 sprankling gouramis to the tank.. At first it all seem to go realy good.. Never had this particular gourami before and didn't realy know about its fanatic and brutal territorial behavior. Papa Pumila got randy and started chassing everything away even without having a nest. It more looks like being territorial is a part of their way to impress females. Even Puffy was chased around and puffy took it well, went away minding his own bussines elswhere.

But only for a few months.. One day puffy decided it was enough, papa pumila was getting on his nerves and he switched the roles. Now puffy started hunting the pumila's, not only papa Pumila but all 3 of them and only the pumila's.. And he was on a mission "You wanna play, ok lets play, but i then we play my way!!" And his mission was hunting down Pumila's, relentlessly, realy cruising the tank like mad and searching every corner in every plant till he spotted one he chased it all around and it realy looked he was going for the kill.. Till he got tired than went for a hour break and then went back on his mission again. I did read articles stating puffers arent fast swimmers, well they are wrong, if provoked the shoot off like little deadly bullets. Lukely the little pumila's also are very fast and agile and none of them got bitten.. I moved them all to another tank.

Never have seen a fish with such a personality, Pumila's have it, but puffers even more.. He is peacefull towards everything else in the tank.. They do not provoke him and all just mind their own bussines. But when provoked, man they are realy very determined hatefull little devils, not stopping till his problem is solved. And that's kill..

One advice for anyone thinking of getting puffers.. Never put them in the same tank with other territorial fish. And if you do not suffer from MTS i wouldn't take any puffers at all. They are totaly unpredictable and if you are not able to move them or their problem, you got a problem.

 

[Lindy]

You are so right. Little deadly bullets they are when on a mission. My male was also relentless when he'd put his mind to something. I think people get lulled into a false sense of security too quickly by these guys.

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