• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
  • You can now follow UKAPS on Instagram.

Dosing Masterline Aquasoil Phosphate 0 ?

aquagenetics

New Member
Joined
7 Oct 2021
Messages
20
Location
Netherlands
Dear Community,

i'am currently dosing MasterLine - All in One Soil - 1000 ml (5 ml every day) on a 240 liter tank, but i am getting some GSA on the front glass and the back glass.
i checked water parameters, and i was surprised that my phosphate was 0, nitrate was around 20-25, it says it : Contains N, P, K, Mg, Fe, Mn, Zn, B, Cu and Mo
Although i must say i was doing regular water changes, like every 3 days 30% because tropica advised that in the beginning with this soil, this is also the first time i am using an active soil.
i am using tropica aquasoil, i posted a few pics of my tank in Juwel Rio 240 Planted Tank

will update this thread today aswell, with some of the cases i am describing, i am also currently fighting bits of BBA with easycarbo (10 ml everyday)
would also appreciate if i can get tips with that, because i let my co2 come on like 3 hours before lights go on, so my drop checker is green when the lights go on (Also im not sure if im using liquid of 30mg/l coz it doesnt say that on the package)
currently diffusing with a JBL proflora inline diffusor.

If you guys need more information, please let me know
Thanks in advance.

Some pics :

20211010_214052.jpg 20211010_174326.jpg 20211010_214041.jpg
 

Wookii

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
2,267
Location
Nottingham
Like most commercial fertilizers, this one looks particularly weak and dilute.

1 ml per 30 litres = 0.4 mg/l NO3, 0.1 mg/l PO4, 0.5 mg/l K, 0.04 mg/l Mg, 0.03 mg/l Fe

Just looking at the PO4, if you are dosing 5ml per day, that's 0.0625 ppm per dose on your 240 litre tank (if my maths is right), or 0.43 ppm per week if you are dosing every day. Compare that to 3.0 ppm per week as the general EI target. On that basis (assuming EI as the target dosing regime) you'd need to increase your daily dose to 35ml per day.

Even if you increase the dose by that (x7) amount, you are still significantly short on the other two macro nutrients - NO3 (12.25ppm/week vs 20ppm/week target), K (15.31ppm/week vs 30ppm/week target), Fe and other micros (assuming Fe is a suitable proxy) will be slightly overdosed, but that's not an issue.

You say you are measuring decent Nitrate levels, but Nitrate test kits are wholly unreliable, so you should just assume your dosing is your only source of nitrate unless you can get a reliable water report from your domestic water supply company.

With such a large tank you are a candidate for mixing your own ferts with dry salts, especially given that expensive Masterline fert is going to cost you almost 10 EUR a week at the 35ml per day that I'd suggest!!
 

aquagenetics

New Member
Thread starter
Joined
7 Oct 2021
Messages
20
Location
Netherlands
Like most commercial fertilizers, this one looks particularly weak and dilute.



Just looking at the PO4, if you are dosing 5ml per day, that's 0.0625 ppm per dose on your 240 litre tank (if my maths is right), or 0.43 ppm per week if you are dosing every day. Compare that to 3.0 ppm per week as the general EI target. On that basis (assuming EI as the target dosing regime) you'd need to increase your daily dose to 35ml per day.

Even if you increase the dose by that (x7) amount, you are still significantly short on the other two macro nutrients - NO3 (12.25ppm/week vs 20ppm/week target), K (15.31ppm/week vs 30ppm/week target), Fe and other micros (assuming Fe is a suitable proxy) will be slightly overdosed, but that's not an issue.

You say you are measuring decent Nitrate levels, but Nitrate test kits are wholly unreliable, so you should just assume your dosing is your only source of nitrate unless you can get a reliable water report from your domestic water supply company.

With such a large tank you are a candidate for mixing your own ferts with dry salts, especially given that expensive Masterline fert is going to cost you almost 10 EUR a week at the 35ml per day that I'd suggest!!
Hey Wookii,

Thanks for your reply, yea im currently dosing approximately half what it says on the bottle, because tropica recommended in the beginning to dose half because alot of nutrients still leak from the soil.
I'am measuring the water parameters with a fresh water test kit, drops is that still unreliable ? before i was using plantedbox ferts i thought this one was less dilluted, since on the package it said to add less.
I would like to mix own ferts, but i thought i needed RO water for that ? which one would you suggest ?

also i see that the normal Masterline is less dilluted, this is probably coz i got the soil version.
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
1 Oct 2016
Messages
4,248
Location
Yorkshire,UK
i'am currently dosing MasterLine - All in One Soil - 1000 ml (5 ml every day) on a 240 liter tank,
So Masterline yields (mg/L = ppm
1634031515896.png

240 litre tank needs 8ml to get the the quoted dose and your dosing 5ml/day so you are achieving 5/8 of the quoted dose x7 a week
1634032101517.png


So you can see your not dosing very much, the tests you have done are unreliable and generally regarded a waste of time in keeping our tanks. the NO3 reading is quite common as our tap water can have quite a bit of NO3 in it for free.

I would advise some DIY ferts for your size tank as it will save you a fortune and you plants will be getting plenty of nutrients.

@Wookii had posted but still posted my thoughts ;)
 

Wookii

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
2,267
Location
Nottingham
Hey Wookii,

Thanks for your reply, yea im currently dosing approximately half what it says on the bottle, because tropica recommended in the beginning to dose half because alot of nutrients still leak from the soil.
I'am measuring the water parameters with a fresh water test kit, drops is that still unreliable ? before i was using plantedbox ferts i thought this one was less dilluted, since on the package it said to add less.
I would like to mix own ferts, but i thought i needed RO water for that ? which one would you suggest ?

also i see that the normal Masterline is less dilluted, this is probably coz i got the soil version.

Tropica soil does put out a lot of ammonia in the early week or two, but I'm not sure it puts out any phosphate, potassium, or micros though. Your plants are definitely showing some nutrient deficiencies, so I would up your dosing immediately.

You don't need RO water to mix your own ferts, you can use cooled boiled tap water, or buy a bottle of DI water.

You'll find a good article on EI Dosing here: The Estimative Index (EI) Dosing with Dry Salts - you can also find some good further instructions for mixing DIY ferts into dosing liquids here: James' Planted Tank - Estimative Index Explained

If you need more help with it just shout up, there are lots of DIY ferts users on this forum 👍
 

aquagenetics

New Member
Thread starter
Joined
7 Oct 2021
Messages
20
Location
Netherlands
Hey Guys,
I just ordered DIY Salts from a dutch website here : Bemesting, zelf te mengen
On that website you could give in your tank dimensions or liters, and they made a recipe for you. so i am really wondering what will it do for my plants :)
Thanks for your advice guys, i will start overdosing from today and when the salts arrive i will make 2 bottles of this solution

i attached the PDF with the recipe, i hope you guys can tell me if this will steer me away from any deficiency's

ps : how do i change avatar i couldnt find it in settings.
 

Attachments

  • Estimative Index - 240 liter.pdf
    702.6 KB · Views: 10

Wookii

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
2,267
Location
Nottingham
Hey Guys,
I just ordered DIY Salts from a dutch website here : Bemesting, zelf te mengen
On that website you could give in your tank dimensions or liters, and they made a recipe for you. so i am really wondering what will it do for my plants :)
Thanks for your advice guys, i will start overdosing from today and when the salts arrive i will make 2 bottles of this solution

i attached the PDF with the recipe, i hope you guys can tell me if this will steer me away from any deficiency's

ps : how do i change avatar i couldnt find it in settings.

You could try plugging those salt quantities into @Zeus.'s Aquarium Fertiliser Calculator to see if the stated ppm's it produces are correct (or if you ask him nicely he may do it for you).

The obvious omission for me is Magnesium, unless you have a decent quantity in your tap water already (again your water company report might confirm). Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4), commonly know as Epsom Salts, can be obtained cheaply from various sources if you wanted to add it into your macro mix.

The ppm's they state are still a little on the lighter side of EI. That shouldn't be an issue whilst you have low plant mass, but once your tank starts filling out I'd probably increase their recommended dose of macros by up to 1/3.
 

GHNelson

Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
14 Dec 2008
Messages
5,141
Location
Hemel Hempstead

dw1305

Expert
UKAPS Team
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
12,455
Location
nr Bath
Hi all,
If you guys need more information, please let me know
Do the new leaves on the plants look pale in real life? or are they just bleached out in the photos?
because i let my co2 come on like 3 hours before lights go on, so my drop checker is green when the lights go on
Just looking at the PO4, if you are dosing 5ml per day, that's 0.0625 ppm per dose on your 240 litre tank (if my maths is right), or 0.43 ppm per week if you are dosing every day. Compare that to 3.0 ppm per week as the general EI target. On that basis (assuming EI as the target dosing regime) you'd need to increase your daily dose to 35ml per day.
Plants can only make use of the extra CO2 if they aren't deficient in any one of the <"other essential nutrients for plant growth">.
I'am measuring the water parameters with a fresh water test kit, drops is that still unreliable ?
<"Titrimetric methods are likely to be better than test papers">, but there may still be <"some issues">, particularly with the monovalent ions (NO3- etc.) where they <"form soluble salts">.

One advantage of both "Estimative Index" and "Duckweed Index" is that they do away with the need to <"accurately test for potentially problematic parameters">.

cheers Darrel
 

aquagenetics

New Member
Thread starter
Joined
7 Oct 2021
Messages
20
Location
Netherlands
Hi all,

Do the new leaves on the plants look pale in real life? or are they just bleached out in the photos?


Plants can only make use of the extra CO2 if they aren't deficient in any one of the <"other essential nutrients for plant growth">.

<"Titrimetric methods are likely to be better than test papers">, but there may still be <"some issues">, particularly with the monovalent ions (NO3- etc.) where they <"form soluble salts">.

One advantage of both "Estimative Index" and "Duckweed Index" is that they do away with the need to <"accurately test for potentially problematic parameters">.

cheers Darrel

No the new leaves do not look pale in real life, thats just the brightness of the light, yea i hope with this new DIY ferts i can get rid of the deficiency's
Thanks for your reply and info.
 

aquagenetics

New Member
Thread starter
Joined
7 Oct 2021
Messages
20
Location
Netherlands
i got another question that may seem weird, do you guys dose when the lights are off or on ? or doesnt this matter at all.
because with easy carbo (gluteraldehyde) i read somewhere that you have to dose it when the lights are off.
 

aquagenetics

New Member
Thread starter
Joined
7 Oct 2021
Messages
20
Location
Netherlands
Like most commercial fertilizers, this one looks particularly weak and dilute.



Just looking at the PO4, if you are dosing 5ml per day, that's 0.0625 ppm per dose on your 240 litre tank (if my maths is right), or 0.43 ppm per week if you are dosing every day. Compare that to 3.0 ppm per week as the general EI target. On that basis (assuming EI as the target dosing regime) you'd need to increase your daily dose to 35ml per day.

Even if you increase the dose by that (x7) amount, you are still significantly short on the other two macro nutrients - NO3 (12.25ppm/week vs 20ppm/week target), K (15.31ppm/week vs 30ppm/week target), Fe and other micros (assuming Fe is a suitable proxy) will be slightly overdosed, but that's not an issue.

You say you are measuring decent Nitrate levels, but Nitrate test kits are wholly unreliable, so you should just assume your dosing is your only source of nitrate unless you can get a reliable water report from your domestic water supply company.

With such a large tank you are a candidate for mixing your own ferts with dry salts, especially given that expensive Masterline fert is going to cost you almost 10 EUR a week at the 35ml per day that I'd suggest!!
Update : Started dosing 30ml of this masterline fertilizer, and waiting for my DIY salts to arrive.
Thanks for everyone who gave advice.
 

aquagenetics

New Member
Thread starter
Joined
7 Oct 2021
Messages
20
Location
Netherlands
I mean saturday after a water change im gonna dose EI, i couldnt change my above post i dont see an edit button, so i just typed a new reply.
 
Joined
31 Aug 2020
Messages
30
Location
Cambridge
Just in case: I dose EI in all my tanks using dry salts, but the tank with soil (Tropica one) always gives 0 PO4 readings (and 0 KH). Tanks on neutral substrates show good levels of PO4, like 2ppm+. Therefore, I assume that aquasoil deposits PO4 inside substrate. Counting that I have no issues with plants growing (even mosses and other reophites) and zero algae, I don't think it is anyhow a problem. But tests results are confusing indeed.
 

Similar threads

Top