Do you do an adapter for disposable Co2 regulator to standard size?

[JamieB]

Hi all

I have one of these kits:

But I want to use this with a fire extinguisher, do you do an adapter? I can see something on the site but it looks the opposite way around, to convert FE regs to work on disposable cans

 

[zozo]

Those disposable cartridges i believe have standard a Metric 10mm thread, the FE has 1/2" BSP if you search ebay or ali there are adapters for that to find.. You also can look in the paint ball section they come cheaper there, more commen also in that branche and Co2 is all over the same regardles what you use it for.

Note some differnces in NPT (National Pipe Thread) and BSP (British Standard Pipe) thread, paint ball is often NPT.. Both threads are the same pitch and angle but NPT is about 0.30mm wider.. So inside NPT thread fits Outside BSP Thread.. But outside NPT has difficulty fitting inside BSP.

But since the FE has 1/2 BSP outside and a 1/2 NPT adapter inside to disposable M10 outside will fit without any problems..

 

[Andy Thurston]

Note some differnces in NPT (National Pipe Thread) and BSP (British Standard Pipe) thread, paint ball is often NPT.. Both threads are the same pitch and angle but NPT is about 0.30mm wider.. So inside NPT thread fits Outside BSP Thread.. But outside NPT has difficulty fitting inside BSP.

But since the FE has 1/2 BSP outside and a 1/2 NPT adapter inside to disposable M10 outside will fit without any problems..

A FE has a DIN477 no. 6 thread not a bsp
Its not a M10 standard thread its a M10 fine series
Also npt and bsp are the same except for the thread angle one is 60* and the other is 55*
the OP would be better going to halfords or machine mart and buying 600g disposable welding co2 cylinders for around £16 each

 

[zozo]

A FE has a DIN477 no. 6 thread not a bsp

Mine does and i also have a paint ball NPT fill adapter in the house fitting the FE and can use it to fill small Co2 bottles. It must differ per country than regarding the FE's

Its not a M10 standard thread its a M10 fine series

an M10 co2 cartridge adapter will always be fine threaded so i didn't think of mentioning it, but it stil is M10 i was more refering to the diameter

Also npt and bsp are the same except for the thread angle one is 60* and the other is 55*

I got a little 1/8 NPT manometer, wanted to screw it in a 1/8 BSP fitting, didnt fit had to grind of 0.30mm and it did work like a charme.. The angle doesnt give a problem..

the OP would be better going to halfords or machine mart and buying 600g disposable welding co2 cylinders for around £16 each

Do you still have Halfords? Over here they are bankrupt and gone about a year..

 

[Andy Thurston]

I got a little 1/8 NPT manometer, wanted to screw it in a 1/8 BSP fitting, didnt fit had to grind of 0.30mm and it did work like a charme.. The angle doesnt give a problem..

its the angle that gives the problem the 60* thread will not be as deep as the 55*, you can fudge it by grinding the point off the 55* but its not ideal, can cause problems making a gas tight seal and will probably cause extra wear and tear to the threads while being tightened/loosened

Do you still have Halfords? Over here they are bankrupt and gone about a year..

yes we still have halfords but I'm surprised their not bankrupt with the prices they charge

an M10 co2 cartridge adapter will always be fine threaded so i didn't think of mentioning it, but it stil is M10 i was more refering to the diameter

Not sure which aquatic disposable canisters it is but one has a different thread on. I'll try and find the thread it was in

 

[zozo]

Thats the dispasable canister with 3/8 NF thread i guess American.. But the picture from OP showes a JBL canister thats German..

I looked it up in the chart regarding the difference in 1/8 NPT and BSP it stated 0.30 mm diamater difference didnt notice the angle.

 

[JamieB]

I'm even more confused now haha appreciate the help still!

 

[Andy Thurston]

I'm even more confused now haha appreciate the help still!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/1811...3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

CGA 320 0.825"(20.96mm) x 14 Tpi Standard cylinder connection in the USA
DIN477 no. 6 0.860"(21.85mm) x 14 Tpi Standard Fire extinguisher and co2 cylinder fitting in europe
Jis 22mm x 14 tpi standard cylinder thread in Japan, note this is very similar to din 477 but not the same, Japanese regs will fit European cylinders but European regs will not fit Japanese cylinders, all cylinder connections have a sealing washer but bsp\npt seal with ptfe etc on the threads

1/2 BSP 0.825"(20.96mm) x 14 Tpi
1/2 NPT 0.840"(21.34mm) x 14 Tpi

Also note that NPT and BSPT are tapered fittings and are not suitable for connection to BSPP or parallel cylinder connections

Be very careful when messing with high pressure gas fittings some will screw straight onto other fittings but will result in a weaker joint, your better off matching your fittings properly or buying appropriate equipment.

 

[zozo]

Yes it is all rather very confusing i know thats because every country still plays somewhat their own game. It used to be much worse in the past with NEN (dutch norm) DIN (German norm) and than there is British norm, USA norm, Japanese norm, DDR\USSR\Eastern Europe norm. Actualy its nothing normal about it. Nowadays industries are trying to get it all to ISO norm but that still has a long way to go.

I'm Dutch and our Belgium neighbour (thats 5 miles away from my place) uses a different Co2 bottle valve than we do, so they also have other connectors on their regulators. We use the same as German standard (thats 3 miles away from my place).. We are commonly Metric but when it comes to pipe threads and fittings we (Germans and Dutch) use Britisch Withworth Thread - BSP with fluids commonly Tapered but not always, with Gasses Parallel. Hence i could screw a standerd water tap on my Co2 bottle and it fits.. I have a Dutch FE and a German Regulator, they go together.. But still it seems that even if we use some Britisch standards in our piping industry the British still do other standard for that.. It's like teasing each other. lol..

I didn't look at your profile where you are situated and you didn't elaborate on that either, i see a JBL bottle and thought Oh!? probably German standard material..

But in this case it's rather important you have to elaborate about your whereabouts.

 

[JamieB]

I'm based in the UK

 

[zozo]

Our Co2 bottles and FE and German bottles have the same 1/2" thread, via www.ebay.de these adapters are offered by the dozen, by aquarist, beer brewers and sometimes welders. But since you got a different FE valve Thread, as seems. I'm out off bussines here.. Duno.. Sorry. Or it would become adapter on adapter and then regulator..

This is the german adapter, if your disposable JBL bottle has an M10 thread this will fit your regulator. Now you got to figur out what adapter you need to make this thing fit an FE.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Adapter-fur-...81?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item1c4d5bf0f5

another one

http://www.ebay.de/itm/CO2-Adapter-...62?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item3cf8e9862a

 

[JamieB]

I can't read German too well but apparently we use DIN 477 so I'd need an M10 to DIN 477 adapter I guess? Struggling to find one still!
Think I just need the opposite of this:
http://www.co2art.co.uk/products/ad...-to-use-with-standard-aquarium-co2-regulators

Starting to think I should sell the Co2 kit as I bought it cheap and can make the money back and then just buy a proper FE setup from Co2Art

 

[zozo]

I can read the German for you Kein Problem...

As Big Clown showed:

DIN477 no. 6 0.860"(21.85mm) x 14 Tpi Standard Fire extinguisher and co2 cylinder fitting in europe

DIN stands for Deutsche Industrie Norm - German Industrial Norm

In the German system it's still called 'W 21.8 x 1/14“ connector and that's the DIN477 no 6

See this thread from a british homebrewer with somewhat the same dilema (He's out of beer)
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=5585.10;wap2

An answer from probably a well boozed chap and they know when it comes to making beer..

Rather than arsing in your local Hardware store, go armed with the correct thread for the Cylinder...

CO2 Threaded Fittings
-------------------------
Throughout the world, carbon dioxide cylinder valves have a special thread. In Europe, Africa and much of Australasia,
the thread conforms to British Standard BS 341 Part 1 No. 8 (0.860 in x 14 TPI) or the direct European equivalent
(DIN 477 No. 6). These threads are in effect interchangeable.

American CGA 320 and Japanese JIS B 8246 CO2 threads are different and are not compatible with each other nor with
BS or DIN CO2 threads.

Credit here...
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/us-eu-standards-co2-tanks-234796/#post2772133

So, if JBL doesn't provide the British market with other disposable bottles then German Regular standard M10x1 thread you're good to go with this one.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/CO2-Adapter-...62?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item3cf8e9862a

It's W 21.8 x 1/14“ addapting to M10x1

The seller sells to Europian Union, so i guess he speaks and writes some English.

But since you now know a bit more what to look for or ask for.. I say look a bit further with patience they often come rather cheaper than that one.

Cheers..

 

[JamieB]

Thanks for that, looks spot on. Will need to decide now if I spend the money for that or just get a normal FE regulator as I still need to buy a drop checker, solenoid, and diffuser and I think I can get at least £25 for the 3 brand new disposable JBL bottles I have plus at least 20 for the existing regulator... That's almost enough for the Co2Art dual stage reg!

 

[Miroslav]

Hi all,

Thank you both for help.

Yes I know that all of it is very confusing so I will just confirm quickly. Yes we do sale adapter from DIN477 (21.8W) to M10x1 but unfortunately not other way around and therefore we will not able to help unfortunately. However as Big clown suggested you can use the standard welding CO2 disposable cylinders which are much cheaper then JBL cylinders.

I still can not understand how some one can ask £79 for disposable cylinder or £200 for 2 kg cylinder...

 

[JamieB]

You're right Miroslav, it's totally ridiculous, I guess it's the same as any hobby, they can charge more because they design it for aquarium use supposedly but we all know it's just standard off the shelf stuff with their own branding.

I'm going to firstly try and sell this stuff on and see how that goes and then buy a full dual stage setup from your good selves. Thanks for the help and look forward to buying from you soon.

 

[zozo]

You're right Miroslav, it's totally ridiculous, I guess it's the same as any hobby, they can charge more because they design it for aquarium use supposedly but we all know it's just standard off the shelf stuff with their own branding.

I'm going to firstly try and sell this stuff on and see how that goes and then buy a full dual stage setup from your good selves. Thanks for the help and look forward to buying from you soon.

You're so rightabout that! It happens a lot, everywhere and all the time.. I remeber the first TC420 led controller i saw in an aquarium shop.. It was sold as a specially develloped Programmable Daylight Simulator € 89.95 pleace Special Treath.... Hence my pants fell off, that's not a daylight simulator, its an ordenary Programmable led controller develloped for use in showrooms and expositions to create some atractive ambient light. Walked out and went to an Expo Stand Builder and bought the thing for €25, nothing special about it. And he still did profit his fair share.

I did build myself a 600 liter/hour filter with a 2.5 liter prefilter canister and a elektronic regulator so can change the motor speed of the pump. Build it for less then € 40 with hoses and all.. Try to find that in an aquarium shop and see what they charge you for it!? You'll be surpriced how many you can build yourselff for that price. Even if the pump only lasts a year and heve to buy a new one each year, i still urn money after 10 years..

 

[ian_m]

I would be very very very weary about using a regulator of this type on a larger volume CO2 source. This type of regulator are prone to end of tank dump when the tank starts to loose pressure when nearing empty. This is not a problem when cylinder size is small (in your case 95gr) an end of tank dump won't be an issue, the excess CO2 dumped will be very small. However with a 2Kg cylinder an end of tank dump will be a substantial amount of CO2, thus wiping all your live stock out.

 

[Miroslav]

I would be very very very weary about using a regulator of this type on a larger volume CO2 source. This type of regulator are prone to end of tank dump when the tank starts to loose pressure when nearing empty. This is not a problem when cylinder size is small (in your case 95gr) an end of tank dump won't be an issue, the excess CO2 dumped will be very small. However with a 2Kg cylinder an end of tank dump will be a substantial amount of CO2, thus wiping all your live stock out.

Yes totally agree with the above.

To be honest the best thing you can do (as many our customers did before) to sale your system on Ebay and use the money to buy proper system from us which you can use on any cylinder not just 95g cartridges which normally sale for £13. You can refill 2 kg cylinder for the same price what is 20 time more CO2.

 

[Miroslav]

You're right Miroslav, it's totally ridiculous, I guess it's the same as any hobby, they can charge more because they design it for aquarium use supposedly but we all know it's just standard off the shelf stuff with their own branding.

I'm going to firstly try and sell this stuff on and see how that goes and then buy a full dual stage setup from your good selves. Thanks for the help and look forward to buying from you soon.

Also please let us know if you will require any advice regarding your set up.