Deficiency causing similar effects to melt?

[Leah95]

Hey Everyone,

The tank has been running smoothly for the past few months, however, earlier this week I’ve started to notice a few issues with 1-2 of the plants. There’s brown developing on the leaves of the anubias, I initially thought it was algae and tried to rub it off but it isn’t, and some of the other plants appear to be experiencing melt but they’ve been fine for the past few months and I haven’t changed anything. I’ve actually reduced the light intensity thinking it might have been that but it’s getting worse. I’ve also noticed brown algae developing on the glass which I’ve not had before and it’s growth coincided with the deficiency appearing.

I currently use tap water which is fine aside from the fact it has incredibly high silicates and phosphates so I’ve been using silicatex and phosguard as individually they won’t removed the silicates and phosphates as there’s so much. As I strip both to 0 I have been dosing phosphates and nitrates for the plants so it could be that, the silicates have crept back up to high levels in the past few weeks as I’m struggling to keep up with how fast the silicatex becomes full and stops working (pretty much every 2 weeks) I am thinking of switching to RO water if others think this may be the cause .

 

[sparkyweasel]

Phosphate is an essential plant nutrient, so I would stop trying to remove it.
The idea that silicates area problem is probably a myth, so I would also stop worrying about them. There are some (very) detailed discussions on the forum about that if you fancy a read.
hth

 

[John q]

Hi Leah, can't help much but suspect using silicatex and phosguard won't be helping much, also seems a bit strange to be dosing phosphate with one hand and removing it with the other.
Have a read if this High amount of silicate in tap water

Also might help to post a current full tank shot to help others diagnose things.

 

[MichaelJ]

The patchy browning on those Anubias leaves could be phosphate deficiency. I had similar issues in the past trying to drive down phosphate with filtration media etc. just to experience similar negative issues like the browning and what looks like pin holes in leaves. I am keeping my phosphate level at around 5-10ppm (which some literature claims to be high), with no apparent negative side effects or worries. Don't know about the melting. Perhaps the plants are still adapting a bit to the change of light intensity or other recent changes, maybe ferts?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Sammy Islam]

Could be phosphate related considering you have phosphate removing media and that phosphate is less available at alkaline PH7+. But it also could be old leaves dying off on other plants.

You shouldn't be worried about phosphate, I use very hard tap water in my tank and dose 6ppm PO4 a week, minimal algae and great plant health.

 

[Libba]

What's your CO2 situation?

 

[ceg4048]

This is a CO2 issue. No nutrients will fix this problem.

Cheers,

 

[Leah95]

Thanks for all your replies!

I wasn’t sure what additional information may be needed so I’ve added some notes below:

• co2 is injected and diffused using a reactor, around 2bps, drop checker lime green
• co2 comes on 2hrs before lights and goes off 1hr before lights off
• lights on 8hrs full but has a 1hr sunrise and 30m sunset

On a separate note. My tap water is very soft and over the past few months I’ve been dosing with AV carbonate/JBL Aquadur to raise hardiness which seems to have been fine. I think my tap water is pretty much okay except it has exceptionally high levels of silicates and phosphates and my LFS advised the two products phosguard and silicatex in order to try and reduce them to manageable levels. They’ve now advised I use RO water as it’s a cheaper way to manage those two levels rather than repeatedly buying silicatex every 2 weeks at £20.

Ultimately I’m trying to find out whether the problem is caused by my tap water and having to remove the high levels of silicates/phosphates or whether it’s my setup; co2, lights, nutrients. I can easily adjust the latter but if the problems are arising because I’m having to strip the silicates and phosphates and reintroduce them, then would it be best to switch to RO? I think there’s two issues here which I’m struggling to understand.

Very grateful for all your replies

 

[Zeus.]

This is a CO2 issue. No nutrients will fix this problem.

Cheers,

I would agree, and FLOW is king of the high tech tank. We could do with a Full Tank Picture with all the filter input outputs fitted and any power heads, plus full details of tank size and filter.

 

[Leah95]

I would agree, and FLOW is king of the high tech tank. We could do with a Full Tank Picture with all the filter input outputs fitted and any power heads, plus full details of tank size and filter.

Hi Zeus!

Please see images below. I have an Aqua Nano 102 maxi pump currently set around 300l/h (it’s on the lower setting). The output is currently through a duckbill as I initially had problems with flow direction - it was basically hitting the glass whereas now it seems to circle a lot better. Flow could be a potential issue as the issues only seem to be on the lower plants, my taller stem ones are flourishing!

Another thing it could be - I recently added some floating plants which tend to congregate in that corner due to flow. Though they’re not blocking the light, I read somewhere, someone said they had similar problems caused by the floating plants taking out more nutrients so the bottom plants aren’t actually getting as much as before. Is this actually a possibility? I’ve stripped them back anyway as they started to spread more than I wanted.

 

[Wookii]

On a separate note. My tap water is very soft and over the past few months I’ve been dosing with AV carbonate/JBL Aquadur to raise hardiness which seems to have been fine.

Congratulations, you're lucky to have very soft water - it'll give you a better starting point than hard water for both fish and plants. Exactly how soft is it though - do you have a water quality report from your supplier? I'd be surprised if adding the Aquador is really necessary.

I think my tap water is pretty much okay except it has exceptionally high levels of silicates and phosphates and my LFS advised the two products phosguard and silicatex in order to try and reduce them to manageable levels. They’ve now advised I use RO water as it’s a cheaper way to manage those two levels rather than repeatedly buying silicatex every 2 weeks at £20.

It's really disheartening to see bad advice being given out like this by a LFS, and extorting £40 a month from you in the process

As others have mentioned, the silicate levels in the tap water are irrelevant. Again your water supplier may or may not include phosphate levels on your water quality report, but it's worth checking - but given that your plants actually need phosphates for growth, there is absolutely no point in removing it.

Ultimately I’m trying to find out whether the problem is caused by my tap water and having to remove the high levels of silicates/phosphates or whether it’s my setup; co2, lights, nutrients. I can easily adjust the latter but if the problems are arising because I’m having to strip the silicates and phosphates and reintroduce them, then would it be best to switch to RO? I think there’s two issues here which I’m struggling to understand.

Very grateful for all your replies

I run RO on one of my tanks, but that is because I my tap water is very hard and I wanted softer tank water for the fish (though I don't actually manage to achieve that, but that's a different story). If your tap water is already soft, RO would seem an unnecessary expense.

 

[Zeus.]

Flow could be a potential issue as the issues only seem to be on the lower plants, my taller stem ones are flourishing!

Which is a strong indication its flow related

Like like the Aqua one tank range, son has one.

I have an Aqua Nano 102 maxi pump currently set around 300l/h (it’s on the lower setting).

Turn it up to full, also check you filter media, remove filter floss and its reduces flow massively very quick when it gets clogged up, also fine fine sponges, maximising flow output so the CO2 bubbles hit front of tank and are forced down to substrate level will help a lot, although the floating plants will end up getting pushed around a lot, but we need the flow to mix mix the water so we get an even [CO2] throughout the whole tank

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

My tap water is very soft and over the past few months I’ve been dosing with AV carbonate/JBL Aquadur to raise hardiness which seems to have been fine. I think my tap water is pretty much okay except it has exceptionally high levels of silicates and phosphates and my LFS advised the two products phosguard and silicatex in order to try and reduce them to manageable levels. They’ve now advised I use RO water as it’s a cheaper way to manage those two levels rather than repeatedly buying silicatex every 2 weeks at £20.

It's really disheartening to see bad advice being given out like this by a LFS, and extorting £40 a month from you in the process

As others have mentioned, the silicate levels in the tap water are irrelevant. Again your water supplier may or may not include phosphate levels on your water quality report, but it's worth checking - but given that your plants actually need phosphates for growth, there is absolutely no point in removing it.

@Wookii is right, it is back to your LFS behaving like a <"payday lender"> and it <"really p*sses me off">.

Plants need <"phosphate PO4---, it is one of the three macro-nutrients"> and the <"level of silicates in your water is totally irrelevant">.

cheers Darrel

 

[ceg4048]

Please see images below. I have an Aqua Nano 102 maxi pump currently set around 300l/h (it’s on the lower setting). The output is currently through a duckbill as I initially had problems with flow direction - it was basically hitting the glass whereas now it seems to circle a lot better. Flow could be a potential issue as the issues only seem to be on the lower plants, my taller stem ones are flourishing!

As zeus mentions, flow needs to be strong enough and distributed evenly enough to reach all the plants, especially those that are farthest from the filter outlet. I'm not really able to determine from the photo where the duckbill is but the first step is to increase the flow output from minimum to maximum and wait for a few weeks to see if that action alone is good enough to solve the problem.
If that has only a minimal effect then perhaps think about using something different than a duckbill or experimenting with it's orientation. Solving flow problems in a tank requires patience.

Another thing it could be - I recently added some floating plants which tend to congregate in that corner due to flow. Though they’re not blocking the light, I read somewhere, someone said they had similar problems caused by the floating plants taking out more nutrients so the bottom plants aren’t actually getting as much as before.

This cannot be. If it were true then the other plants would suffer as well. Plants at the surface cannot affect plants at the bottom except to block light, which would be a good thing. Besides, is that substrate ADA aquasoil? If so then those rooted plants have access to a lot more nutrients than any floating plants.

Cheers,

 

[sparkyweasel]

LFS advised the two products phosguard and silicatex in order to try and reduce them

I wonder why?

every 2 weeks at £20.

Hmm.