curled leaves bucephalandra

[yme]

hi!

I am noticing that some bucephalandra species that I have in my EI-style, low light, high CO2 tank are not quite happy.
New leaves are not "opening" completely and stay "curled". I wondered whether anyone has similar experiences and what the possible cause is.





thanks,

Yme

 

[Sarpijk]

I have the same problem. I 'd love to hear some ideas.

 

[Finn]

I've observed this occurring intermittently in some sp. and consistently in others, while some are unaffected entirely all in the same tank. As the leaves are otherwise completely healthy and well developed, just curly, my gut feeling is that it's a species dependent sensitivity to an external factor occurring late in the leaf development, rather than anything overtly malevolent (I.e. I doubt it's a virus or such). More probably some thing like the light levels, flow or similar is to blame - possibly nutrient fluctuations in the water column while the leaf is unfurling. As for determining it exactly, I think a fair bit of trial and error will be required.

For what it's worth, I'm running a tank at a consistent temperature of 24 C with low light, no CO2 and inconsistently dose a bit of EI when and if I feel like it. The plant that I've seen it happen most consistently in was sp. 'Flora', while it's occurred occasionally in sp. 'Dark IO' and 'Apollo'. Conversely I've never seen it occurring in sp. 'Belindae', 'Little Purcha', 'Kapuas Hulu', 'Chili', 'Sanggau' and several others of mine.

 

[zozo]

Me too, i guess it more looks like an environmental issue, abiotic stress.. Tho never experienced it with my buce plants, but did in terrestrial plants... Some do this when its to warm, for example the (bell) peper plant is very sensitive to this and curl its leaves, i guess it's a kind of protection mechanisme in this case to curl the leaves and reduce exposed surface area.

 

[nicpapa]

curled leaves can be from toxicity of traces, co2 or ca mg .
Its something from the above. 🙂.

 

[yme]

thanks for the answers!
It is nice to see that I am not the only one with this "problem" and that some species are completely unaffected and other are. In my case, Bucephalandra motleyana melawi is most affected. and 5-10 species not all (need to look up again their names)

Since I have an EI-style tank, it could be some kind of toxicity. too bad we can not measure individual trace elements!
It indeed looks like something emersed plants also do when something is not to their liking. If I remember correctly, some bamboo species also curl-up if freezing starts, indeed to decrease their surface.

in terms of what I do know:
temperature is controlled by an teco air-conditioner, because the water gets too warm otherwise (even in the winter)
light is 20-50 PAR, so we can rule out too much light.
The leaves of the melawi are also moving gently in the current (generated by an mp20 Vortech)
CO2: 30 mg/l, measured by oxyguard CO2 meter.
pH: 6.4
KH:2.5
maximum build-up calcium: 60 mg/l, Magnesium: 14 mg/l

yme

 

[yme]

and probably it does not help: but this is how my tank looks: quite crowded with plants, but still a nice flow because of the Vortech

 

[alto]

This tank deserves a lot more photos 😀

 

[nicpapa]

Nice tank. 🙂
You keep only ferns and buces thats why u cant see the toxicity( maybe).
I never keep buce , but plants are plants. 🙂
What are u dose for trace and how much?
Water changes?

 

[yme]

as of 3-4 months I dose full strength EI traces (apart from iron, which give at a lower dose) loosely based on CSM+B recipe. (I buy dry ferts and mix them myself)
I started this tank giving the plants 1/3 EI traces, but this was not sufficient for the staurogyne repens. it was really small, yellow and fragile. increasing the traces to full EI strength fixed this. The curling of the bucephalandra was present also at this 1/3 EI trace dose.

full EI trace dose per week in mg/l
B 0.1586
Cu 0.0121
Fe 0.8775
Mg 0.1881
Mn 0.2513
Zn 0.0497
Mo 0.0067

Fe 0.1 mg/l/day

and some extra pics (from some time ago) for alto

 

[yme]

and of course 50% WC per week

 

[nicpapa]

Anubia nana as i can see in photo have new curled leaves.
If i understand correct you make your own traces?
Try to grow in this tanks Hygrophila polysperma, it made same thing to me .
this plant grow fast and u can see if there is a toxicity.

 

[yme]

yes, but those leaves are in the process of unfolding, they always end up normal. (there is however too much green spot algae, but that has probably nothing to do with buce-issue)

I mix indeed my own traces: the chelated I buy from this site: http://www.borms.eu/nl/e-shop/shop/micronutrienten
and B and Mo I have as plain salts.
btw: I work in a lab, so I know how to accurately do this 🙂

 

[nicpapa]

how big is that tank?
Liters?

 

[zozo]

I know nitrogene toxicity causes curled leaves, but also burned/necrotic leaf edges, submersed that would be melting leaf edges., If i'm not mistaken about all deficiencies and or toxicitys end up on necrotic tissue. And looking at the pictures all kinda just looks rather healthy.. Great tank btw.. 🙂 Me too i have motleyana in my tank, unfortunately not so much as you have.. And fortunately not showing this curling.. 🙂 I simply use Tropica special ferts.

 

[yme]

maybe I should have mentioned N+P as well 🙂

I add 4 mg/l PO4 per week and 10 mg/l NO3 per week. when measured PO4 is around 2-3 mg/l and NO3 around 20 mg/l.

and tank is 155x50x50 = 387 liter

and I am indeed not unhappy with the tank. as said, a bit too much spot alge and a very little bit of some red algae growing on the edges of old leaves, but overall plants are growing well.

 

[alto]

Thanks 🙂🙂🙂

It's a lovely tank, textures & shapes & colors are brilliantly done!

 

[PARAGUAY]

Great looking tank and healthyplants, maybe the Buce is adapting to submerged as it looks well enough

 

[yme]

maybe the Buce is adapting to submerged as it looks well enough

They have already formed five or so new leaves, so I think we can rule out adaptation to the tank.
But thanks for the suggestion!!

Yme

 

[nicpapa]

Try to lower traces...
Calculate like csm +b and as target fe, 0.2ppm ped dose.

staurogyne repens. it was really small, yellow and fragile

This can be from low no3, ca,mg or maybe fe for yellowing not from traces...