CO² generator idea

[ScareCrow]

Hi all,

I've been back and forth about whether I want to go the pressurised CO² route or not. I think the lower pressures and volumes of CO² made by the citric acid approach is safer, which appeals to me.
Looking at the stainless steel reactors they look like a safer option than the carbonated drinks bottle options as I've seen a few reviews where the plastic bottles have split overtime.

The cost of the stainless steel reactors is quite high and I was wondering if there was a cheap and simple DIY option. I use a couple of these pump sprayer bottles for various things and as they're fine with corrosive liquids and can handle 43psi before the safety valve is triggered I was wondering if I could use one of these in the same way as the stainless steel bottles. I.e. fill it with the correct amount of citric acid, bicarb and water then hook it up to a solenoid, needle valve and diffuser/reactor. A quick search on here suggests the pressure required for a diffuser is about 30psi, so I think the bottle rated to 43psi should be ok. My question would be what happens when the solenoid is closed, would CO² just vent through the pressure valve. @GHNelson I saw in your journal you've used the stainless steel type generators. Do you know what the max pressure in the bottle is when the solenoid is closed? I can't seem to find this info online.

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi
I can't tell you but the regulator has an over-pressurized release valve!
Those I have..... never get beyond the usable level on the dial....so I don't know if that valve works?
hoggie

 

[G H Nelson]

You would need a fair amount of the dry mix to get the pressure up in a 5 litre!
You could always run it 24/7
hoggie

 

[ScareCrow]

You would need a fair amount of the dry mix to get the pressure up in a 5 litre!
You could always run it 24/7
hoggie

Very true, I guess I'd have to scale up the amount for the 2l stainless generators but then maintaining pressure would be a problem.

 

[G H Nelson]

They all drop off eventually producing Co2....
Your bubble counter will tell you that when it starts slowing down the mix will need to be changed!

 

[ScareCrow]

You would need a fair amount of the dry mix to get the pressure up in a 5 litre!
You could always run it 24/7
hoggie

They all drop off eventually producing Co2....
Your bubble counter will tell you that when it starts slowing down the mix will need to be changed!

Yeah I was thinking I could just run it 24/7 and use the bubble counter as a guage. I do like to overcomplicate and make things difficult for myself though!
I've found 2 and 3l versions with pressure release valves so they might be a better option as they can handle the same pressure apparently.

 

[Hanuman]

Why not go down the CO2 tank route?
1. It will cost you less with time;
2. Your CO2 is constant and does not deplete as fast;
3. DIY systems are prone to leakage and are less reliable.

 

[ScareCrow]

Why not go down the CO2 tank route?
1. It will cost you less with time;
2. Your CO2 is constant and does not deplete as fast;
3. DIY systems are prone to leakage and are less reliable.

Pressurised like a fire extinguisher?
I totally agree, I bought all the kit and then talked myself out of it
It's partly the safety aspect if 2kg of CO² went pop, it would make quite a pop! The only place I can store it is in a cupboard where my fuse box is so not ideal as it's a few metres from my tank. Although perfect if I have an electrical fire in my fuse box .
Also getting refills is a little tricky for me as I've only got a motorbike and I don't think I can carry gas bottles.

 

[Hanuman]

Pressurised like a fire extinguisher?

Yes.

The only place I can store it is in a cupboard where my fuse box is so not ideal as it's a few metres from my tank. Although perfect if I have an electrical fire in my fuse box .
Also getting refills is a little tricky for me as I've only got a motorbike and I don't think I can carry gas bottles.

Makes sense and fully understand your situation.

It's partly the safety aspect if 2kg of CO² went pop, it would make quite a pop!

Talking about the safety aspect alone, a DIY system has a much higher chance of popping in your face or leaking than a fire extinguisher or a CO2 tank made for the beverage industry. Those are designed to withstand large amounts of pressure. I don't know on the other side of the planet how things work, but here where I live the tanks are never refilled 100%. I would say at best 60%/70% for safety reasons. I would assume something similar happens in the west.

Depending how much CO2 you are pumping in your tank, a 3Kg CO2 tank could last 3-4months maybe more. On my 90cm tank I have a 9Kg capacity CO2 tank which is usually refilled with 5kg. That one usually lasts me over 6 months and I am injecting CO2 like a mad man.

 

[ian_m]

It's partly the safety aspect if 2kg of CO² went pop

Why would there be any issue with fire extinguishers ??? What's the problem ? We have 14 at work, non have exploded, accidentally discharged since being replaced 5 years ago. One or two have fallen off the wall due to poor fixings into plaster board. No one has died or been asphyxiated. I am on my 12th extinguisher at home, no one has died, plants are wonderful. Only fiddle with the fire extinguisher once every 3 months, it just works.

Search this forum for the number of citric acid/bicarbonate/yeast users who before switching to fire extinguisher, killed their fish (CO2 overdose), killed their fish (yeast mixture in tank), reactor exploded, reactor leaked, reactor melted (using a heater to regulate reaction), system always leaked due to complexity and didn't like the smell of vented excess yeasty CO2 in their living room. Also required daily fiddling to try and keep CO2 at any useful levels for growing plants.

If you can achieve a reliable reactor, reliable CO2 levels and low complexity we await your designs...

 

[ScareCrow]

Why would there be any issue with fire extinguishers ??? What's the problem ? We have 14 at work, non have exploded, accidentally discharged since being replaced 5 years ago. One or two have fallen off the wall due to poor fixings into plaster board. No one has died or been asphyxiated. I am on my 12th extinguisher at home, no one has died, plants are wonderful. Only fiddle with the fire extinguisher once every 3 months, it just works.

Search this forum for the number of citric acid/bicarbonate/yeast users who before switching to fire extinguisher, killed their fish (CO2 overdose), killed their fish (yeast mixture in tank), reactor exploded, reactor leaked, reactor melted (using a heater to regulate reaction), system always leaked due to complexity and didn't like the smell of vented excess yeasty CO2 in their living room. Also required daily fiddling to try and keep CO2 at any useful levels for growing plants.

If you can achieve a reliable reactor, reliable CO2 levels and low complexity we await your designs...

Yeah I totally agree the DIY method is far from perfect. I bought a CO² art reg with the intention of going the fire extinguisher route and I made sure I got a dual stage reg as I didn't want to risk gassing my fish.
I know this isn't a fire extinguisher but this thread sticks in my mind. I know it's not a common occurrence for the valve to fail but changing my own motorbike tyres has given me a healthy respect for pressure and that's only 35-40psi so if a FE valve was to fail it would probably be more than a change of trousers required.
The stainless steel reactors seems like a good compromise to me as they can build pressure and then release it slowly, maintaining a stable injection rate, over a reasonable time and can take the increases in pressure brought about by the solenoid switching on and off.
I was looking at pressure sprayers as I've not been able to find anyone using them online but to me they'd make a good diy alternative to the SS generators as some are pressure rated, have a pressure release valve and are capable of storing corrosive liquids.
I'll probably end up going full circle and get a FE but thought I'd float the idea incase someone had already seen or done the pressure sprayer idea.

 

[Hanuman]

Just to put things into perpective, I have a 20Kg propane tank in my kitchen for cooking. 🤐

 

[Kevin Eades]

Have you ever used a co2 fire extinguisher? It might be loud but not dangerous when you let it off full pelt. One I got delivered discharged in the delivery van and everyone is still alive. The most risky part is the setup. Ensure you have everything tight and let the pressure in slowly. If you hear hissing close the handle. Check for where it's leaking. It will be cold and iced if leaking a lot. The amount of co2 in the bottle is not enough to gas you in a room. So if it discharges you might get a fright but no danger. Be brave and do it right. If your co2 fluctuates you will get BBA issues really quick and it's hard to remove. I know this from experience.
I have 1 fire extinguisher under my tank currently and 3 under the stairs awaiting changing on to tanks once my soda stream bottles run out. I'm not loosing any sleep that they are going to blow up under the stairs.

Edit: The fe went off in the van as he knocked the pin out and then drove like a maniac not due to any damage to the fe

 

[Garuf]

Just to put things into perspective “we” used to creatively borrow fireextinguisers, take off the horn, stick on a copper pipe and use the handle as a trigger to fire potatoes and apples at each other like a green grocery based paint ball and I still have both eyes and all my fingers.

Honestly it’s noisy but not exactly dangerous in a life threatening way, I’ve had a safety valve blow on a 20kg co2 tank once and apart from the noise and smoke show it was essentially safe, nothing was launched or exploded or anything, everywhere just got really cold for a bit and the had to open the north light windows for a bit.