Changed to a Sera Co2 Reactor 1000. Gave up on inline diffuser for my planted tank.

[ian_m]

My CO2 hose is clamped to my diffuser using a "10 x 6mm MIKALOR" clamp (search Ebay, 2 cost me 99p inc P&P, meant for car fuel pipes), along with the 22mm water pipes clamped with jubilee clips.

 

[Zak Rafik]

My CO2 hose is clamped to my diffuser using a "10 x 6mm MIKALOR" clamp (search Ebay, 2 cost me 99p inc P&P, meant for car fuel pipes), along with the 22mm water pipes clamped with jubilee clips.

Fantastic piece of info. Thanks.
I'll keep this in my mind but I pray that I won't need these when the reactor is put into action.

 

[Bhu]

Ok its been a while since I put an update on this reactor so here goes. It still works fine (or does it? I've now gone back to my Intense (soon to be stronger version of UP) diffusor. I've have nothing but bad BBA and now hair algae since this co2 diffusor went in. When I used the UP inline I never got this algae. So my issues so far... Its really hard almost impossible to keep the co2 constant with this reactor. Its had its own external pump up to 2000l/h and after a few days the flow starts to drop as moss and debris build on the outlet pre-filter. It doesn't take long for the co2 peddles to stop flowing round at all as well. As for the co2 where does it go!? I have to feed a huge amount into this sera 1000 to get the co2 drop checker to show the colour I want I mean huge amount its literally a constant stream or line of co2 going into it. Where as the inline UP or Intense I can count the bubbles quite accurately as they are maybe 1 or 2 a second max to get the same colour change. Using the sera my plant growth has been only ok not optimal compared to the UP where it was rapid and lush with very little BBA. Also with the UP the 7 UP effect does help reassure that the tank is being fed co2 with the sera no bubbles=guess work. There definitely was no leaks as I tested it on 3 different occasions and leaks were the reason I left the UP behind. The sera 1000 is a great idea why its not working for me I don't know. It has had a ton of co2 pumped into it used up 2kg in 6 weeks on 150 ltr tank which is nearly twice as much as the UP used and with no amazing results either! So where did that co2 go to? Its clear with the UP where it is and where it travels in the tank. So I have taken the extra flow off=less pipes in the tank= and added the Intense inline using my eheim canister which so far is showing very good results on the co2 levels via the DC also the plants are pearling more visibly now too! I will be changing the intense for the UP as soon as my 16/20 ends arrive for the hardened body I got from CO2 Art to test out. Once this is working fine I will keep in 2 or 3 ceramics and rotate them regularly to keep a good level of diffusion at all times. Before one ceramic would last 2 to 4 weeks which is fine for me I can work with that. The sera needed cleaning out on a similar level too but didn't give me constant co2 levels during that running time whereas the UP did. I've had a huge amount of crypt melt and BBA since using the sera 1000 I'm not blaming it maybe my running of it but I will run the UP for 6 weeks then see the difference and report back. I'm not dissing the sera but I'm really not that happy with the results especially with the price the set up cost £40 for sera1000 £80 for eheim external pump well live and learn all will be well in the end will report back in 6 weeks

 

[Zak Rafik]

Hi Bhu,
What a coincidence! I was just about to message you to ask for your update on the Co2 reactor. I was thinking about your reactor's outcome since yesterday. My goodness!! I do have strong telepathic power

. Its really hard almost impossible to keep the co2 constant with this reactor

I have to feed a huge amount into this sera 1000 to get the co2 drop checker to show the colour I want I mean huge amount its literally a constant stream or line of co2 going into it.

Oops! Not a good outcome! Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Recently I read on many forums where fish hobbyist are experiencing the same problem with their DIY Cerges' Reactor ( similar to Sera's reactor ). It's always about getting the DC to be lime green before lights on. And I know by the time we get the reactor's Co2 output to a fine art, the tank has become an algae farm. Then we panic and resort to all kinds of actions which can make the tank's damage more worst. I have experienced this when my tank's inline diffuser started to clog up and I resorted to the Sear 1000 reactor. The reactor started to leak and now I'm back on the inline diffuser. But the beauty of my tank has never been reversed till now. I've lost many plants and the original scape my of tank is gone.

Its had its own external pump up to 2000l/h and after a few days the flow starts to drop as moss and debris build on the outlet pre-filter.

I did not take this into consideration when you installed the pump. A very important point to note.

price the set up cost £40 for sera1000 £80 for eheim external pump

Having a planted tank can sometimes be an expensive hobby.

Now that I have read your feedback and experience, I not so sure about installing my reactor now. Your post has come at a crucial time. I was about to install it in my tank tomorrow as my tank is clearly showing signs of Co2 or flow shortage.

Anyway I sincerely hope that your tank regains its former beauty.

Cheers.

 

[Bhu]

I will post a picture later, it still looks lovely but I had to cut a lot away yesterday to take a lot of the BBA & Hair Algae away. One of the issues having the discus is that all the shrimp hide and never come out to eat the dam algae which was the reason to put them in there in the first place! In my low tech tank the shrimp are out all the time now the discus are out and in the high tech! They must be real predators! I'm sure that the shrimp are in the high tech still as there are loads of places to hide and if they survived them in the low tech with less places to hide I'm sure they are still in there!
Well here is a picture with the 7 UP effect back

the moss roots are now lower which is better for the fish as more room to swim. My fat SAE is useless as yours was! Just eats the fish food! I would have to starve the tank to get him to eat all that BBA and that's not fair to the discus as they love their food!

 

[Zak Rafik]

Well here is a picture with the 7 UP effect back

Well as they say "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade".

 

[foxfish]

It could be worth trying without the blades ... it might work ? You will get more flow but maybe some bubbles as well?

 

[Zak Rafik]

It could be worth trying without the blades ... it might work ? You will get more flow but maybe some bubbles as well?

I was planning to hook up the reactor to my Eheim 2080 (1700 Ltr/hour). Bhu has a pump 2000 Ltr/hour dedicated just for the reactor and yet he had problems. I'm now not so sure if my 2080 can provide enough flow to the reactor. The 1700 Ltr/hour flow rate stated by Eheim must be without the filter media and filter wools. So I can safely assume the the flow rate will be much lower. Your opinion please. Thanks.

 

[Bhu]

I was planning to hook up the reactor to my Eheim 2080 (1700 Ltr/hour). Bhu has a pump 2000 Ltr/hour dedicated just for the reactor and yet he had problems. I'm now not so sure if my 2080 can provide enough flow to the reactor. The 1700 Ltr/hour flow rate stated by Eheim must be without the filter media and filter wools. So I can safely assume the the flow rate will be much lower. Your opinion please. Thanks.

The problem I had was that the wire mesh over the inlet tube soon got blocked with tank debris more so than my Eheim prefilter. Probably due to the high flow rate to start with sucking everything to it. Unless I kept vigilant of this the flow did drop drastically with this build up. Also the cyano brown bacteria build up in the reactor itself messed with the flow of the wheels and being as it is much simpler to clean the UP inline with a new ceramic while the dirty one cleans out that is now the path I have chosen. So far the DC is great in colour and much more constant. Yes my flow is less but the plants grew great before I added the extra flow. Also note that the extra flow didn't stop a build up of hair and BB algae.

The key is keeping the conditions constant and I found this a real challenge with the sera. By going back to the UP now that it's been UP-graded reduces my work load on the tank and hopefully creates more favourable conditions for plant growth. Also the work needed is much easier, cleaning out the sera 1000 although easy to do is a real hassle to disconnect it whereas the UP is very simple and less fragile. The only downside is the 7 UP effect but it's really not that bad! To be honest and experimentally is helpful as is shows the co2 movement through the tank.

I initially ran my sera off my eheim which was adequate, I only added the extra eheim external pump to add extra flow as text book states more flow= more success. My next experiment to use less flow again and see if I can create better looking plants again as they were before the changes.

I will check in again in a few weeks with my progress.

Afternote: what really baffles me to this day is just how much co2 I had to pump into the sera 1000 to get the same DC colour as the UP produces with just 3bps. The sera had a constant line of co2 gas and was impossible to count the bps but it did use a 2-3 month supply of gas (2kg) in less than 6 weeks! The UP has 3 times the running pressure than the sera 1000 so maybe that had something to do with it? If anyone can shed light on this part Id be grateful. There was 100% no leaks.

 

[Zak Rafik]

By going back to the UP now that it's been UP-graded

That's a good one.

To be honest and experimentally is helpful as is shows the co2 movement through the tank.

Yes, that's true.

what really baffles me to this day is just how much co2 I had to pump into the sera 1000 to get the same DC colour as the UP produces with just 3bps. The sera had a constant line of co2 gas and was impossible to count the bps but it did use a 2-3 month supply of gas (2kg) in less than 6 weeks!

I had the same issue. I started the Co2 to the reactor 4 hours before lights on and yet get a green only on the DC.

If anyone can shed light on this part Id be grateful.

Me too. I'm sure there are some Co2 experts / gurus in this forum who can "enlighten" us.

 

[Chris Jackson]

I'm no CO2 guru but I have a theory that with an atomiser some pure CO2 gas can enter a drop checker by virtue of the tiny bubbles everywhere and give a hi reading whereas with a reactor it is only measuring what is actually dissolved in the water.

If plants actually prefer or have better access to CO2 direct from saturated water then this could explain many of the issues people have with leaves melting and algae even with pale green to yellow drop checkers?

 

[Bhu]

I'm no CO2 guru but I have a theory that with an atomiser some pure CO2 gas can enter a drop checker by virtue of the tiny bubbles everywhere and give a hi reading whereas with a reactor it is only measuring what is actually dissolved in the water.

This makes sense!

If plants actually prefer or have better access to CO2 direct from saturated water then this could explain many of the issues people have with leaves melting and algae even with pale green to yellow drop checkers?

But this I don't understand. I would have thought that if plants are happier then it would be less likely they melt or get algae growing on them?

 

[Chris Jackson]

This makes sense!




But this I don't understand. I would have thought that if plants are happier then it would be less likely they melt or get algae growing on them?

Ah, what I'm suggesting is that the micro bubbles of CO2 are giving a falsely high reading in the drop checker and that the actual water saturation level could be much lower. If submersed plants adapt primarily to absord CO2 from a liquid, as in water, rather than as a gas (after all it would seem very unlikely that you'd find CO2 atomised water in nature) then it could be that some plants struggle in spite of all the CO2 bubbles passing by because the level of pure CO2 saturation in the water is still actually much lower than it appears from PH readings.

 

[Chris Jackson]

I could be talking complete nonsense of course because many seem to be having far better results with a diffuser.....

 

[Bhu]

Well I get better results with the diffusors compared to the reactors.

 

[Andy Thurston]

I'm no CO2 guru but I have a theory that with an atomiser some pure CO2 gas can enter a drop checker by virtue of the tiny bubbles everywhere and give a hi reading whereas with a reactor it is only measuring what is actually dissolved in the water.

If plants actually prefer or have better access to CO2 direct from saturated water then this could explain many of the issues people have with leaves melting and algae even with pale green to yellow drop checkers?

I disagree, but im no co2 guru either. my ph meter backs up what my drop checker tells me, although the dc is 3hours late. My hang on dc is yellow because its near the surface if i put one near the substrate i reackon it would be not so yellow. I think that the micro bubbles give a much larger contact area with the water so you get a faster ph drop. I think the reactor is not as good at dissolving co2 and surface agitation gasses off the co2 nearly as quick as the reactor dissolves it, resulting in a slower ph drop compared to the inline.
Just my theory

 

[Bhu]

Sounds more like what happens tbh...

 

[Zak Rafik]

@Bhu @Big clown @Chris Jackson

I have a theory that with an atomiser some pure CO2 gas can enter a drop checker by virtue of the tiny bubbles everywhere and give a hi reading whereas with a reactor it is only measuring what is actually dissolved in the water.

The very reason I wanted to switch to a reactor from an inline diffusers. I thought that same theory as you did. But it was not so.
My DC which was placed at the opposite end of the spray bar and in between substrate and water surface. The DC showed gas build up. It was showing a lime green.
I wanted to confirm the DC's colour indication and so I moved it to the same side as the spray bar. Although there was no gas buildup, the DC was still showing the same lime green. Please see photo below taken this morning.

my ph meter backs up what my drop checker tells me, although the dc is 3hours late. My hang on dc is yellow because its near the surface if i put one near the substrate i reackon it would be not so yellow. I think that the micro bubbles give a much larger contact area with the water so you get a faster ph drop.

Your DC turning yellow, so I assume you're using an in line diffuser? My DC is lime green when the light turns on and yet I'm having BBA and thread algae and my Limnophila aromatica 'hippuroides' are struggling to grow..


http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/IMG_1456_zpse66a8ed6.jpg

 

[Andy Thurston]

Yes, i'm using an inline
I think stability is the key as mentioned earlier in the thread. If i dont keep my tank topped up to the same level surface agitation increases leading to unstable/reduced co2 in the tank and bba blooms
Its a tricky game this co2 business

 

[Zak Rafik]

Its a tricky game this co2 business

Yes Sir. You nailed it.

same level surface agitation increases leading to unstable/reduced co2 in the tank and bba blooms

Since I'm using a chiller set at 25c, the rate of evaporation is quite low and even then I do try to keep the water level to the maximum. I notice if my spray bar and power head is pointing horizontally ( my current position), I notice much water surface movement and if I adjust it to say about 10 to 15 degrees lower, the agitation is reduced by half. Yet I have read in this forum many a times to keep the spray bars pointing straight.

After much thought, I think I'll postpone my Sera reactor installation for some time. Once my tank is stable, I'll see how.