Soilwork
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Thanks Darrel,
You are likely right. I’m not sure why it’s pink myself it’s just something I’ve noticed and the main reason I stayed away from it.
Regards
CJ
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CaMg(CO3) aka Dolomite for remineralization?
- Thread starter MichaelJ
- Start date
Thanks Darrel,
You are likely right. I’m not sure why it’s pink myself it’s just something I’ve noticed and the main reason I stayed away from it.
Regards
CJ
Soilwork
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X3NiTH
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The easiest way to do this is point you in the direction of the Reconstituters thread here in the forums. Not just a recipe but also the reasoning behind it, lots of word salad to enjoy!
MichaelJ
Member
How about Ca Gluconate as an alternative to CaSO4 ?
Cheers,
Michael
Cheers,
Michael
X3NiTH
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MichaelJ
Member
Since I don't see a much of references to anyone actually using it, I am wondering if there are any particular drawbacks I should consider? According to Rotala I would need about 2.5 times the Ca Gluconate amount to reach the same Ca ppm compared to CaSO4.Yup!
Cheers,
Michael
X3NiTH
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I haven’t used it myself but I have contemplated it’s use. There shouldn’t be any drawbacks to using, it will be easily plant available because it’s loosely chelated to a sugar molecule which the plant can utilise for its carbon content, sugars are heavy molecules hence the much increased weight needed in comparison to the sulphate. You wouldn’t sweat dosing Ferrous Gluconate for plants so the same should be said for calcium. The only time you will have a problem is if Calcium is already at saturation point in the water and when the chelate breaks down the excess Calcium will precipitate out (you will unlikely meet this criteria on purpose).
MichaelJ
Member
Hi @X3NiTH Thanks for the explanation! I am currently targeting 32 ppm of Ca for my 151L tanks, so that shouldn't be problem versus saturation.I haven’t used it myself but I have contemplated it’s use. There shouldn’t be any drawbacks to using, it will be easily plant available because it’s loosely chelated to a sugar molecule which the plant can utilise for its carbon content, sugars are heavy molecules hence the much increased weight needed in comparison to the sulphate. You wouldn’t sweat dosing Ferrous Gluconate for plants so the same should be said for calcium. The only time you will have a problem is if Calcium is already at saturation point in the water and when the chelate breaks down the excess Calcium will precipitate out (you will unlikely meet this criteria on purpose).
Very, very nice! Using Ca Gluconate will essentially shave off 26 ppm of TDS coming from the "excessive" sulphate in the CaSo4 (Which I already have plentiful from my Magnesium (MgSo4)) dosing. I am trying to optimize the water a bit for my shrimps - they need a good amount of calcium but also prefer relatively low conductivity... dang hard to please... I believe the Tetras will benefit from it too as they are from mostly low conductivity environments as well
Cheers,
Michael
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X3NiTH
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Nothing stopping you doing a bit of trailblazing and supplementing with Magnesium Gluconate, again something else I have considered.
X3NiTH
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Think of it this way, usually you would expect that the majority of mineralisation in water would be determined by precipitation flowing over geology that releases elements into water but this is not always the case you have to take into consideration that the release of elements from the decay of plants that didn’t make it will add to the water chemistry, there’s a smorgasbord of compounds to choose from and as long as they have Chelatory properties then beneficial ions could be bound up with it like Calcium and Magnesium. Your not only limited to sugars like Gluconate you can consider Tannates also of which Calcium and Magnesium can be bound to this huge molecule. I don’t think you would want to remineralise with only one compound but you could certainly make a blend of everything if your goal was to reduce the hallmarks of pollution from Sulphates and Chlorides. The Amazon is a bunch of dead plants sitting on top of a whole pile of sand so the Major cations are probably being delivered firstly by silicates and then supplemented by precipitation washing the breakdown products of dead plants down the river (dead everything actually, doesn’t just have to be plants decaying, include the whole animal kingdom for the region right down to unicellular life, heck even Stardust counts!).
MichaelJ
Member
@X3NiTH I guess I need some sulphate in there as well and I am really only adding 8 ppm through my MgSo4 dosing where I get 6 ppm of Mg... the rest of my Mg (3 ppm) comes from Mg(NO3). But I'll check into it!Nothing stopping you doing a bit of trailblazing and supplementing with Magnesium Gluconate, again something else I have considered.
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MichaelJ
Member
Fascinating and makes a lot sense!Think of it this way, usually you would expect that the majority of mineralisation in water would be determined by precipitation flowing over geology that releases elements into water but this is not always the case you have to take into consideration that the release of elements from the decay of plants that didn’t make it will add to the water chemistry, there’s a smorgasbord of compounds to choose from and as long as they have Chelatory properties then beneficial ions could be bound up with it like Calcium and Magnesium. Your not only limited to sugars like Gluconate you can consider Tannates also of which Calcium and Magnesium can be bound to this huge molecule. I don’t think you would want to remineralise with only one compound but you could certainly make a blend of everything if your goal was to reduce the hallmarks of pollution from Sulphates and Chlorides. The Amazon is a bunch of dead plants sitting on top of a whole pile of sand so the Major cations are probably being delivered firstly by silicates and then supplemented by precipitation washing the breakdown products of dead plants down the river (dead everything actually, doesn’t just have to be plants decaying, include the whole animal kingdom for the region right down to unicellular life, heck even Stardust counts!).
X3NiTH
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A non zeroing value ideally as plants do need some, a persistent couple of parts per million would likely be sufficient. The goal after all is to reduce the overall conductivity not the total nutrition.
MichaelJ
Member
Just for the heck of it I ordered Magnesium Gluconate as well... I can use half the dose of MgSO4 and add Mg Gluconate for the remaining Mg... saving me an additional 4 ppmA non zeroing value ideally as plants do need some, a persistent couple of parts per million would likely be sufficient. The goal after all is to reduce the overall conductivity not the total nutrition.
My plants, fish and shrimps will be bathing in sugar water 
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Oldguy
Member
If you want to add Mg ions why not just use magnesium sulphate. Epson salts, cheap, readily available and soluble. You would know just how much you per adding.
Check your water supplier for an analysis of your water. A lot of USA waters already contain magnesium salts as well as calcium salts.
MichaelJ
Member
@Oldguy True, and thats what I am using right now. Mg(SO4) and Mg(NO3) as well as CaSO4 and KH2PO4 all mixed together during my WC water prep (40/60 Tap/RO mix) - my tap water is very high on K so I dont need any additional potassium. The whole point of the experiment of changing out the Mg(SO4) and CaSO4 for Mg Gluconate and Ca Gluconate, as mentioned in post #29 above, is to enable me to shave off some conductivity (TDS). I hope it works out with the Gluconate compounds, if not, I will go back to the SO4 based compounds.
My tap water is softened with KCl, so that essentially comes out at "0" GH.
Cheers,
Michael
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MichaelJ
Member
Got the Calcium Gluconate today (pure and food grade) - is not my usual WC day, but I did a solubility test in a 5 gallon bucket. It definitely takes longer to dissolve vs. CaSO4, but no big deal (still far easier than Equilibrium), after fully dissolved everything comes out pretty consistent with the numbers from Rotala. I did 6 grams in a 5 gallon bucket and it came out at 4 GH... perfect! Cant wait to use it on Friday when I do my WC's.
Cheers,
Michael
Cheers,
Michael
Oldguy
Member
An interesting experiment. I used to be concerned about TDS but now that I have become wedded to the EI regime I no longer test. The plants and fish are fine.
We have a water softener, put in by a previous owner, but it has not been charged for over twenty years. Our water is moderately soft (must have been a good salesman) but has little or no magnesium (typical of UK waters) therefore add a little of the sulphate to my rain water/ tap water blend for water changes.
All the best with your endeavors.
P.S. I assume that you do not have a bypass tap on your water softening system, we do so our drinking water is straight from the mains.
MichaelJ
Member
Hi @Oldguy Actually, I am probably quite well in line with EI weekly (definitely above on PO4 and K), so I am good on fertilizer. At the end of the week my TDS hovers around 275... which is about 15 ppm above what my 40-50% WC water is - I mix the whole weekly dose of NP (not K) with the remineralization (I only remineralize for GH aiming at Ca ~32 ppm and Mg ~10 ppm), and 40% of my WC water which is from the tap provides the KH and Potassium I need. I am now dosing micros the day after WC - I used to add it within an hour or so, but the Iron and Phosphate tend to bind, making it harder for the plants to access the Iron - as I understand it.
Plants and livestock are all doing great. So switching over to the Gluconate based Ca and Mg compounds is merely an experiment to see if I can get rid of the excessive sulphate (not entirely, as I will still aim for 2ppm of Sulphate by mixing in a bit of MgSO4). With that, I should be able to reduce my TDS to around 245-250 - which is somewhere around the ideal for my Neocaridina davidi shrimps according to the shrimp experts and it definitely wont hurt my tetras either - as all of those are from habitats with low conductivity (which affects osmotic pressure, metabolism etc.). So lets see how it works out. Perhaps I'm wasting my time, but it's worth trying I think, and none of this will compromise the plants - hopefully
In general, I like TDS as a good indicator of the tanks health - if it creeps up over time its a good indication that waste is building up due to lacking maintenance. I only started to look at TDS around 9 months ago when I got a TDS meter for Christmas
... to my surprise both my tanks had TDS in the neighborhood of 1500 ppm (surprisingly, plants and fish was apparently doing fine, but I don't think it would have been sustainable) ... at that time I was doing only 20% WC per week with some lapses, so I probably had a tremendous amount of waste build up plus I was doing pure RO water with Equilibrium, Acid and Alkaline buffers in proportions that was out of wack... Fortunately, thanks to the experts on UKAPS I got it all straightened out and probably saved my tanks Thank you!
All water throughout our household runs through our resin based water softener (using Potassium salts) - no exceptions. Our outdoor taps do not however, but since those are shut off almost 6 months a year because of the arctic winters here in Minnesota its not practical to rely on those, otherwise I would probably just use 40/60 and add NPK and call it a day.
Cheers,
Michael
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