Bucephalandra: Crisis

[Onoma1]

Having purchased at great expense two pots of Bucephalandrae in-vitro I was delighted when it arrived and carefully wedged the nine small pieces into place in the tank in a high flow area and and I sat back to watch them grow.

My crypts and other epiphytes are romping away, one bunch of the Anubis Nana Petite has a flower and all is looking good elsewhere in the tank.

Every single piece of Bucephalandra has, however, died (it's not stunned, dormant, melted, resting nor is it pining for the fjords) it has ceased to be, expired and gone to meet it's maker. Bereft of life, it's metabolic processes are now history. The only reason some of it is still sticking to the stone is that it's superglued to it.

So - two questions:

1. Has anyone got a link to a definitive guide to growing Bucephalandrae (given my skill set something with small words and big letters or even better moving pictures); and
2. can anyone recommend a company selling largish chunks of non-rare, reasonably cheap, Bucephalandrae. Preferably a variant that really shows off it's inflorescence (i.e not Wavy Green),

 

[Steve Buce]

Ive had some nice buce from proshrimp that have grown, although these were the more types
For rarer types have a look at aquasabi, but they usually sell pretty quick

Ive only ever bought one invitro buce and it melted too

 

[Konsa]

Having purchased at great expense two pots of Bucephalandrae in-vitro I was delighted when it arrived and carefully wedged the nine small pieces into place in the tank in a high flow area and and I sat back to watch them grow.

My crypts and other epiphytes are romping away, one bunch of the Anubis Nana Petite has a flower and all is looking good elsewhere in the tank.

Every single piece of Bucephalandra has, however, died (it's not stunned, dormant, melted, resting nor is it pining for the fjords) it has ceased to be, expired and gone to meet it's maker. Bereft of life, it's metabolic processes are now history. The only reason some of it is still sticking to the stone is that it's superglued to it.

So - two questions:

1. Has anyone got a link to a definitive guide to growing Bucephalandrae (given my skill set something with small words and big letters or even better moving pictures); and
2. can anyone recommend a company selling largish chunks of non-rare, reasonably cheap, Bucephalandrae. Preferably a variant that really shows off it's inflorescence (i.e not Wavy Green),

Hi
I will advise you on your next purchase of plats not to split them straight away.Give them a little while till U see some good new growth first before U chop them down
Regards Konsa

 

[Onoma1]

Hi
I will advise you on your next purchase of plats not to split them straight away.Give them a little while till U see some good new growth first before U chop them down
Regards Konsa

They came as small pieces each with 3 or 4 leaves on a small tubor / stem. Each stem had one root. I didn't cut them.

 

[X3NiTH]

A good addition I found to help ailing Buce is Rhizotonic (Cannae) dosed at water change, it really helps with root and root hair proliferation and helping them mature to become more woody for increased mechanical strength. Because of how they grow the roots can be prone to mechanical damage over time from high flow areas or fish swimming among them, the stronger the root system the better the chances for the plant.

 

[Konsa]

Oh right.
In that case try floating them for a bit till they put some more roots.
When I do maintenance sometimes I break little shoots off mine(I am a bit heavy handed) one leaf and almost no rhizome it gets stuck in my floating plants and when see some few new leaves and some roots this is when I pin them down.My tanks are low tech tho so they appreciate the top of my tank as is most CO2 rich.
Regards Konsa

 

[Konsa]

A good addition I found to help ailing Buce is Rhizotonic (Cannae) dosed at water change, it really helps with root and root hair proliferation and helping them mature to become more woody for increased mechanical strength. Because of how they grow the roots can be prone to mechanical damage over time from high flow areas or fish swimming among them, the stronger the root system the better the chances for the plant.

Hi that product has been mentioned few times regarding mosses and ephites in general with a lot of positive feedback. I am considering to get it lately as keep some bonsai too and it will benefit me there too
What dose U use in your tank?
Regards Konsa

 

[Onoma1]

A good addition I found to help ailing Buce is Rhizotonic (Cannae) dosed at water change, it really helps with root and root hair proliferation and helping them mature to become more woody for increased mechanical strength. Because of how they grow the roots can be prone to mechanical damage over time from high flow areas or fish swimming among them, the stronger the root system the better the chances for the plant.

Bought some last night after reading the thread and it's just arrived (via amazon).

 

[Onoma1]

Ive had some nice buce from proshrimp that have grown, although these were the more types
For rarer types have a look at aquasabi, but they usually sell pretty quick

Ive only ever bought one invitro buce and it melted too

Belt and braces this time. I have bought a two potted tubs from ProShrimp and one more in-vitro tub - I will try again by following the approach used by Konsa (although after looking at his tanks I recon anything he touches would grow) for some and growing the rest on emmersed spraying with dilute Rhizotonic.

 

[Ady34]

A good addition I found to help ailing Buce is Rhizotonic (Cannae) dosed at water change, it really helps with root and root hair proliferation and helping them mature to become more woody for increased mechanical strength. Because of how they grow the roots can be prone to mechanical damage over time from high flow areas or fish swimming among them, the stronger the root system the better the chances for the plant.

Hi, I’m presuming this Rhizotonic is totally safe to use with livestock?
Thanks.

 

[Kalum]

I've got a mix of buces in my high tech and they have adapted really well with no melt, after a few weeks i decided to move one of them into my low tech which is the same parameters (low light, EI, GH etc...) apart from no CO2, low flow and 25deg instead of 22deg and it fully melted within a day

It's an expensive trial and error with them but i will be trying again in my low tech

Had a look at that Rhizotonic but can't find anything about ingredients or it's use with livestock

 

[Onoma1]

Hi, I’m presuming this Rhizotonic is totally safe to use with livestock?
Thanks.

I have a container in front of me and it doesn't state that it can be used with livestock. I have e-mailed Canna for a definitive response and will update you when / or if they reply.

The bottle in front of me indicates that it is 100% plant based and derived from Marine Algae (not sure that this helps).

My plan was to use this outside the tank - not within the tank (just to be on the safe side).

It also suggests that it works best with low EC, without fertilizer and perhaps only for the first few days.

 

[Konsa]

Hi
@zozo have some experience with the stuff.This is where I first heard of it.
He says is quite an alkaline compound.
I will try it shortly in different dosages in my 3 tanks and any observations will be shared promptly.
There is one of the ADA products that I used in the past post trim and when planting new plants.Its called Green gain.Not sure what is in it.But it does what it says on the box.Never seen so much budding on stems after trim when I was using it.And plamts seemed to transition and recover really well with it.
Regards Konsa

 

[X3NiTH]

The pH of Rhizotonic is 13, so yes it is alkaline. I dose it at 1ml per 10L, I have used double/triple this dose before (eyeballed the measurement in the bottle dosing cup rather than using a syringe), there are no apparent detrimental effects to fish (Purprle Emperors, who live in dKH/GH 8 are unaffected by the dose, Mikrophagus R, Electric Blue in dKH/GH 4 again no reaction to the dose even when double dosed), no effect on pond snails or Red Ramshorn. No shrimp in the tanks so can't say effects on these inverts but Daphnea can survive in the tank for as long as it takes for the fish to find them when hungry which can be a few days or more.

It's not a Silver Bullet to all Buce woes but it does really help.

As a point of note the Blue Rams I have are new and are in a planted quarantine tank, the male is currently not well he injured himself on hardscape and has scales missing and a furry sore on his side, they both had white stringy stool, Gill flashing and fin clamping. The tank has had two doses of Protozin (?ich) a couple of doses of Fenbendazole (?intestinal worms/hexamita) one dose was blood worm saturated in the stuff so they got a direct dose and not just the tank, the Saprolegnia (furry fungus) that bloomed on leftover food has disappeared, the stringy stool has gone but the Gill flashing, fin clamping and the skin wound remained (?Oodinium). So it had a 90% percent water change at the weekend (with front loaded macro) and received a full dose of traces, I also double dosed Rhizotonic (there is Buce in this tank and I have the CO₂ turned off for at least a week), turned off the light and whacked the temperature up to 29/30c and added some copper sulphate solution at a dose rate of 0.3ppm per 10L (this is a really big dose of copper). Gill flashing and fin clamping have stopped (this is how I know I have a male, he's is now able to show of his dorsal prominence).

So what was the point of that last paragraph, well off all the things going on with those poor fish in that quarantine tank Rhizotonic is the least of their problems.

Dose away!

 

[FishLifeLondon]

I bought some Bucephalandra from aquasabi. I got Mini Catherinae potted and Mini Needle Leaf Invitro. The Mini Catherinae didn't melt apart from some peices I left floating (high light). The Mini Needle Leaf melted almost completely, but as long as the rhizome isn't rooted, leaves will grow back. Although this may take a while. Btw this is in aquariums without pressurised CO2.

 

[Onoma1]

No response from Canna on the use of Rhizotonic with in planted aquariums with shrimp and fish. Encouraged by X3NITH's experience, however, am I very nervous about dosing into the tank and don't want to inadvertently decimate my rather nervous looking (https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/help-a-problem-that-really-sucks.56334/) band of cherry shrimp. Konsa - any news on your dosing trial?

 

[Konsa]

Hi
I just got email about it being delivered.
Will wait til Im off Sun,Mon and Tue do start dosing it with a bag of carbon near me.lol
Regards Konsa

 

[Onoma1]

Hi
I just got email about it being delivered.
Will wait til Im off Sun,Mon and Tue do start dosing it with a bag of carbon near me.lol
Regards Konsa

Waiting with bated breath! Hope you don't need the carbon. Perhaps just worth dosing one tank?

 

[Konsa]

Hi
Im only joking about the carbon but it saved my shrimp from being wiped out with flea spray when my girlfriend did the house (have a house full of pets and some occasionally comming from charities too so twice per year we need to do the hose just to be on safe side)I forgot to cling film the tank before she sprayed.Was lucky spoted them on time and speedy to lfs for carbon.
I will dose a tank each day if all is good starting with the shrimp one.Plan on going really lean( @X3NiTH 's dose seems good starting point) and once im happy with it not affecting livestock will increase slowly.
Regards Konsa

 

[X3NiTH]

I understand the caution, with regard to shrimp I would remove one individual from the tank and put it in a glass or container as a test subject with some of the tanks water to a known volume so that you can dose according to 1ml per 10L and then observe the response over 24hrs or so, you can run the experiment longer and increase the dosage. If I had doubts this is what I would do.