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boosting flow of an eheim external using a pump

S

Skatersav

Member
Joined
22 Nov 2011
Messages
86
Ladies and gents,

Quick question:

Would there be any harm in adding a water pump (maybe a pond pump or something) to the return of an external canister filter (eheim, to be precise)? I have a big tank, high energy, and need lots of flow but don't think the current set up really works. I think I have seen someone put a pump in line with an external filter but I can't find where...

Thanks in advance,

Sav :D
 
chilled84 said:
Why attach it inline? If your going to get another pump, use the extra flow unatached elsewhere within the tank. Thatll help your flow problems better than on single diy powerfull outlet. Hope that helps. Cheers.
Click to expand...


To minamise items in the tank, i only wanted one inlet and one outlet pipes. :D
 
Skatersav said:
Would there be any harm in adding a water pump (maybe a pond pump or something) to the return of an external canister filter (eheim, to be precise)? I have a big tank, high energy, and need lots of flow but don't think the current set up really works. I think I have seen someone put a pump in line with an external filter but I can't find where...
Click to expand...
Not a done thing two pumps in series. If the second pump, for instance, is a slower flow rate than you canister pump, then it will end up slowing the whole system down (or being overdriven by the more powerful pump).

You really only should have one pump per water circuit loop.

What about a wavemaker to increase flow/circulation around the tank ?

Some people, with large tanks, have one loop of just canister filter and another loop of pump, hydor inline heater and CO2 diffuser.
 
Skatersav said:
Would there be any harm in adding a water pump (maybe a pond pump or something) to the return of an external canister filter (eheim, to be precise)? I have a big tank, high energy, and need lots of flow but don't think the current set up really works. I think I have seen someone put a pump in line with an external filter but I can't find where...
Click to expand...
Hi,
You have several options. It is possible to run two pumps in series but the specifications of the pumps ought to be considered. Normally, you want the second pump to be the much stronger pump so that the filter pump acts only as a "feed" pump and the second stronger pump is the "boost" pump. This works well when the the height of the the tank is large (or if the pipe runs are very long causing frictional losses) and when the first pump is not strong enough to do the job properly, so it just delivers enough flow to the second pump to make life easier for that second pump. If the two pump outputs are similar then you tend to flood the second pump and you loose efficiency.

As mentioned in the link, you can also disable the filter's pump by simply unplugging the unit and removing the impeller. In that case it would probably be better to have the boost pump before the filter so that you push the water through the filter instead of pulling it through. Much fewer complications that way and probably easier to prime the pump. I actually like this option much more for improving flow than the method of adding powerpacks, or powerheads to the inside of the tank, because all that flow is going through the filter instead of just being recirculated and now, since it is all going through the filter pipework the flow stream is much easier to control
and to manipulate with a spraybar which you can now elongate to cover the entire distance along the tank without having the flow peter out.

Try both options and see which works better.

Cheers,
 
Thanks everybody. I appreciate the responses greatly. I'm sure you all have more important things to do than educate me - I'll have a go at implementing the suggestions and let you know how it goes. I'll do a before and after and all that stuff. Cheers. S
 
Could always boost flow/circulation like this. Maybe fit another spray bar on outlet.
pumpn.th.jpg
 
What about adding the second pump to be a needle wheel co2 diffuser?
I am running a eheim 2217 out a 80cm spraybar on the back. The flow is just about enough. But I wanted some type of inline co2 plus was contemplating an inline purigen reactor down the line, and I have been researching adding a pump I to the water loop.
 
ceg4048 said:
Hi,
You have several options. It is possible to run two pumps in series but the specifications of the pumps ought to be considered. Normally, you want the second pump to be the much stronger pump so that the filter pump acts only as a "feed" pump and the second stronger pump is the "boost" pump. This works well when the the height of the the tank is large (or if the pipe runs are very long causing frictional losses) and when the first pump is not strong enough to do the job properly, so it just delivers enough flow to the second pump to make life easier for that second pump. If the two pump outputs are similar then you tend to flood the second pump and you loose efficiency.

As mentioned in the link, you can also disable the filter's pump by simply unplugging the unit and removing the impeller. In that case it would probably be better to have the boost pump before the filter so that you push the water through the filter instead of pulling it through. Much fewer complications that way and probably easier to prime the pump. I actually like this option much more for improving flow than the method of adding powerpacks, or powerheads to the inside of the tank, because all that flow is going through the filter instead of just being recirculated and now, since it is all going through the filter pipework the flow stream is much easier to control
and to manipulate with a spraybar which you can now elongate to cover the entire distance along the tank without having the flow peter out.

Try both options and see which works better.

Cheers,
Click to expand...
Hi.
I would also like to ask questions as I'm not sure if it is right the way I did.
I have two Oase Biomastr 600 filters running on a large 450l tank.
We knows the manufactured flow 1250 l/h is nowhere near .(tested approx 600 l/h)
I decided to connect the external pump before the canister filter to push the water through Oase Optimax 2000 and on the second filter Ose Optimax 5000.
Both pumps are also nowhere near manufactured flow.
Oase optimax 2000 max flow 1200 l/h
Oase Optimax 5000 - Havent test it yet but I don't think it can give 5000 l/h.
I connected the pump before the canister filter to push the water through the filter while I removed the impeller but the filter start leaking.
So i put the impeller back and connected it.
At the moment I'm running both pumps..Can't hear any noise from the filter impeller.
Only the pump made a noise but they the did same noise before too.
The filter flow rapidly increases.
My question is if it's safe that way?
Or should I remove the impeller and install the pump on filter outflow ?
Just wanna make sure I'm on the safe side.
Thanks in advance!
 
Stefan34 said:
Hi.
I would also like to ask questions as I'm not sure if it is right the way I did.
I have two Oase Biomastr 600 filters running on a large 450l tank.
We knows the manufactured flow 1250 l/h is nowhere near .(tested approx 600 l/h)
I decided to connect the external pump before the canister filter to push the water through Oase Optimax 2000 and on the second filter Ose Optimax 5000.
Both pumps are also nowhere near manufactured flow.
Oase optimax 2000 max flow 1200 l/h
Oase Optimax 5000 - Havent test it yet but I don't think it can give 5000 l/h.
I connected the pump before the canister filter to push the water through the filter while I removed the impeller but the filter start leaking.
So i put the impeller back and connected it.
At the moment I'm running both pumps..Can't hear any noise from the filter impeller.
Only the pump made a noise but they the did same noise before too.
The filter flow rapidly increases.
My question is if it's safe that way?
Or should I remove the impeller and install the pump on filter outflow ?
Just wanna make sure I'm on the safe side.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Pumps should be AFTER the canister filter so as to not cause excess pressure or leaks.

Inlet hose -> canister-> pump -> outlet hose


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Le duke said:
Pumps should be AFTER the canister filter so as to not cause excess pressure or leaks.

Inlet hose -> canister-> pump -> outlet hose


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Ok.Thank you for reply!I will go for it when I’m at home.
I also notice the oase optimax was leaking bit.probably because of the pressure .I apply some Vaseline and it looks ok.
But I will find out when I’m home.
Pump running wrong way now and also during night.
Wasn’t hot thanks god!
Finger cross!!!
I will remove filter impeller and connect it right way how suppose to be and let you know if that’s okay.
Thank you
 
Le duke said:
Pumps should be AFTER the canister filter so as to not cause excess pressure or leaks.

Inlet hose -> canister-> pump -> outlet hose


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Hi.
I managed yesterday to connect the pump exactly like you said and like supposed to be ..
But for some reason, I can not increase the flow of the pump.
If I do that air starts accumulating inside the filter.
Any particular reason why that's happened?
I thought that should be equivalent no? The same amount of water in and the same amount should go out, right?
Should I try to put back the impeller to help the pump?.......
 
The pump in the canister should be OFF. If ON, it might create some weird backpressure situations.

What kind of pump did you buy/install? When I’ve run a pump in-line, it was a variable rate DC pump that allowed me to control the flow rate. I had a 1500gph pump (at 0 head) running at ~60%, up to 5ft AGL. Got around 600gph.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Le duke said:
The pump in the canister should be OFF. If ON, it might create some weird backpressure situations.

What kind of pump did you buy/install? When I’ve run a pump in-line, it was a variable rate DC pump that allowed me to control the flow rate. I had a 1500gph pump (at 0 head) running at ~60%, up to 5ft AGL. Got around 600gph.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Oase optimax 5000 .when is set to low flow all good.when I turn up at the max flow which is definitely 5000l/h
.I would say 2500-3000l/h max .
The reason I’m using stronger pump because there will be connected co2 reaktor later one.
I shake the filter and spit large amount of air bubbles .
Did couple of times .the air is still building up I prime it again and when I’m home I will check it if it’s eventually okay.
Hope so otherwise I don’t know .
Btw the oase optimax making some weird noise
It looks like there is some rubbish probably behind the impeller .
Any idea how to remove the impeller?
I took out 4 screw to get access to the impeller but after that I got stuck obviously I dont want break anything.
 
Well, that 5000l/h flow rate is at zero head, not attached to a canister filter.

At 1.5m, most pumps will be at ~60-70% of their max flow rate.

Here's a graph from Sicce, showing the performance of their various Syncra SDC models, comparing head vs output at full power. Per their literature, it has a max flow rate, at no head, of 5500l/h. I put a red dot at roughly 1.5m, and that is roughly ~3500-3600l/h. So, 3000l/h doesn't seem unreasonably low for a 5000l/h pump, attached to a canister filter.

Also, what are you using to secure your lines to the pump and the canister filter? If you don't have some sort of clamp you could be getting some kind of air intrusion from the end of your hoses. You might consider starting, stopping, and restarting it 5-10 times to make sure that air is properly purged from the system, as well.
 

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Le duke said:
Well, that 5000l/h flow rate is at zero head, not attached to a canister filter.

At 1.5m, most pumps will be at ~60-70% of their max flow rate.

Here's a graph from Sicce, showing the performance of their various Syncra SDC models, comparing head vs output at full power. Per their literature, it has a max flow rate, at no head, of 5500l/h. I put a red dot at roughly 1.5m, and that is roughly ~3500-3600l/h. So, 3000l/h doesn't seem unreasonably low for a 5000l/h pump, attached to a canister filter.

Also, what are you using to secure your lines to the pump and the canister filter? If you don't have some sort of clamp you could be getting some kind of air intrusion from the end of your hoses. You might consider starting, stopping, and restarting it 5-10 times to make sure that air is properly purged from the system, as well.
Click to expand...
When I came home and checked the filter THANKS GOD..All was OK. Not trapped air anymore!!.... Not using anything but considering buying a plastic one..Dont wanna use the metal ones as they have sharp edges and they leaving marks...
Also not happy with the Oase Optimax 2000. That pump is too noisy according to the oase optimax 5000..That pump is relatively quiet.
Consider replacing the pump with another 5000...
I opened . Cleaned the impeller but is still noisy..I think the noise coming from that part where is the power supply for the impeller but unfortunately there Is no access..its probably sealed. and glued together to prevent leakage...
 
Le duke said:
Well, that 5000l/h flow rate is at zero head, not attached to a canister filter.

At 1.5m, most pumps will be at ~60-70% of their max flow rate.

Here's a graph from Sicce, showing the performance of their various Syncra SDC models, comparing head vs output at full power. Per their literature, it has a max flow rate, at no head, of 5500l/h. I put a red dot at roughly 1.5m, and that is roughly ~3500-3600l/h. So, 3000l/h doesn't seem unreasonably low for a 5000l/h pump, attached to a canister filter.

Also, what are you using to secure your lines to the pump and the canister filter? If you don't have some sort of clamp you could be getting some kind of air intrusion from the end of your hoses. You might consider starting, stopping, and restarting it 5-10 times to make sure that air is properly purged from the system, as well.
Click to expand...
Btw when I woke up early morning to work the filter with the optimax 2000 start badly leak .another headache so I disconnect it and I will have extra job today…..I disconnect the pump and put it back the impeller and when I start the filter it starts leak trough the blue clips ….not sure why..also when I lift the filter it’s start leaking even more when is disconnected…that never happens before…interesting…
 
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