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Black Spots on leaves

Cd2021

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Hi Ceg,

Yes I’d agree, I really like Lewis the racer. But not Lewis that we see on social media etc. Bottas is getting desperate I think, therefore questioning decisions. The sport has some great talent and hopefully the next gen cars will be closer and we can see them all battling. But I think George is the starof the future.

Yes agreed, really appreciate the ongoing help/ chat. I’ve been useful on some Facebook groups chatting about the issues and seems to be a lot of misinformation. BBA just spot dose it and it’ll go away. Or down to organics in the tank. Did you build your knowledge just over the years in the hobby and trial and error? Or any particular material that you read? I can fully appreciate where your coming from everywhere is go for a million watt light and run at 100%, not a lot of emphasis on co2. And pretty Lilly pipes etc.

Yeah that makes sense, I do the same with my pre filter on my Oase filter. I think my co2 regulator isn’t great if I’m honest. Seem to need to be adjusting it quite often. Could see the green on the drop checker become darker by the end of the week to the beginning. Any particular regulator with solenoid you’d recommend. Thinking of going for co2 art.

Oh really, do you struggle not having a tank? What about a smaller one? Tbf that sounds amazing, do you have any pictures? Where you thinking of moving to? Think you should come to the UK and I can be a Ceg trainee 😂😂. Yeah can imagine you’d have a queue for your plants! Is there many member from the US on here?

Going back to ferts, I’ve attached an imagine of the card that I use. Is it similar what you’d recommend to do with EI?
Thanks,
Chris
 

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ceg4048

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Going back to ferts, I’ve attached an imagine of the card that I use. Is it similar what you’d recommend to do with EI?
Yes, if this is an APF card then it's based on the recipe in our EI article.
Oh really, do you struggle not having a tank? What about a smaller one? Tbf that sounds amazing, do you have any pictures?
Well the tank is just sitting there. I used to have something like 14 tanks, which was insane, so I got rid of them all to focus on one large tank, so don't really want to go back to multiple tanks again. This is alright for now. After I move I'll re-start. I'm going someplace where it doesn't get cold, lol!
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Any particular regulator with solenoid you’d recommend. Thinking of going for co2 art.
Really difficult for me to answer to be honest. I've never owned any name brand regulator. I've always gotten them made by suppliers specializing in the industrial gas. Sounds strange, I know, but remember I got started way back when there were no name brands. The plant growing hobby, and particularly the CO2 aspect was not developed and was dominated by a few certain hideously overpriced German companies. So we had to find quality alternatives for gear, so I just got used to that. Even EI and PMDD - there were no hobby suppliers. Our powders were obtained either from farming/garden centers or mail order hydroponic suppliers.
Yes agreed, really appreciate the ongoing help/ chat. I’ve been useful on some Facebook groups chatting about the issues and seems to be a lot of misinformation. BBA just spot dose it and it’ll go away. Or down to organics in the tank. Did you build your knowledge just over the years in the hobby and trial and error? Or any particular material that you read? I can fully appreciate where your coming from everywhere is go for a million watt light and run at 100%, not a lot of emphasis on co2. And pretty Lilly pipes etc.
Yeah mate no worries. There is so much misinformation out there that I always liken it to my favorite movie The Matrix. It's like everyone is asleep and only dreaming of a reality that doesn't exist. People assume I came up with these crazy ideas while meditating on the mountaintop near Shangri-La, but it's just the opposite. My colleagues and I suffered just like everyone else, at a time when there was very little access to internet. So you couldn't just press a button and google answers. The first true internet plant centric website was The Krib and we learned a lot there but there were still serious gaps in our knowledge. Then along came Tom Barr of The Barr Report, who had done a lot of the tedious research, experimentation and testing. UKAPS started as a sub-forum of The Barr Report. It was Tom who "freed us from The Matrix" and he is still helping folks figure things out, especially CO2.
EI is his development so we're just carrying on.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

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Hi Ceg,

Completely missed this response,

Yeah that’s it, did you dose micro and macro daily using the chemical in one of them. I can’t remember the name of it, but can find it if you don’t know what I mean. Or just alternate days?

14 tanks, did you live in a mansion? I have 2 at the moment. The one we’re talking about then a smaller chindongo salousi Malawi tank, just rocks. Trying to allow the boss to let me have my old tank (aqua nano 60) in my office at work haha. He is a marine keeper so may have a slight chance. Wow that’s a big terrarium 😂😂. Do you struggle not having a tank setup?

ah fair enough, was looking at the co2 art pro se. Seems to be the most popular choice. And think it’s just over £100.

Haha, can’t say I’ve ever seen the matrix, so no idea what you mean lol. Can I ask what you mean by “our” other mods, admin on UKAPS. The method speaks for itself it clearly works. BBA is barely noticeable in the tank now. One thing that’s doing nothing is my carpet. Again, everywhere that I’ve read is carpet needs high light to be able to get there.m, and of course CO2. I’ve never been able to grow a carpet. Tried Monte Carlo in my previous tank, done nothing. The mini hair grass in this tank. Started out as 6 pots, double/ triple layer across the whole front of the tank, now barely a pot left.

Thanks
Chris
 

ceg4048

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Yeah that’s it, did you dose micro and macro daily using the chemical in one of them. I can’t remember the name of it, but can find it if you don’t know what I mean. Or just alternate days?
Hi Chris,
Have a look at the EI dosing article The Estimative Index (EI) Dosing with Dry Salts
You'll see that we generally suggest to dose macros 3 days a week and the traces twice a week on alternate days.
It isn't always necessary to do that, but we suggest it because we cannot know what kind of water is in your tap. In many hard water scenarios there is a possibility that one of the macros, Potassium Phosphate, will have a chemical reaction with the Iron in the micro to form a precipitate Iron Phosphate. Sometimes all you need to do in these cases is to dose the micro first and then after an hour or so dose the macro. It's not really that big of a deal in any case, but we're just being conservative.
14 tanks, did you live in a mansion?
No mate, just use one of the bedrooms as the fish room. Would be nice to have a dedicated fish room. One day mate...
Wow that’s a big terrarium 😂😂. Do you struggle not having a tank setup?
No, not really, just biding my time until I'm re-settled. There are plenty of other distractions now the weather is improving and folks are getting vaccinated.
Haha, can’t say I’ve ever seen the matrix, so no idea what you mean lol.
Well, put that on your list of "must see" mate, via Netflix or whatever. It's actually a trilogy. The first movie is 20 years old now (amazing).
Can I ask what you mean by “our” other mods, admin on UKAPS. The method speaks for itself it clearly works. BBA is barely noticeable in the tank now. One thing that’s doing nothing is my carpet. Again, everywhere that I’ve read is carpet needs high light to be able to get there.m, and of course CO2. I’ve never been able to grow a carpet. Tried Monte Carlo in my previous tank, done nothing. The mini hair grass in this tank. Started out as 6 pots, double/ triple layer across the whole front of the tank, now barely a pot left.
Yeah it's a bunch of folks including some of the mods/founders.
There are a lot of people convinced that you need loads of light, but that simply isn't true. The reason your tank suffered a BBA attack is the same reason the hairgrass deteriorated. Hairgrass and other carpet plants do not live so deep underwater. They live on the margin of the shoreline or between rocks semi-submerged. They are not very good CO2 gatherers and are very slow growing under water. You you yourself have proven that more light alone does not cater to this plant. Carpet plants are slow growing but if you have high light and good CO2 then the carpet will fill in, but that is true of many plants. Light makes them grow faster, but only if CO2 is good. When CO2 is not good they disintegrate.
A problem with CO2 is that you can't see it. You can see bubbles but that's not what does the work. The work is done by the dissolved gas that you cannot see. That's why I commented earlier that you had so many bubbles and I knew that's not where the gold is hidden. When the gas is dissolved and disappears from view you then have think about how the water is being distributed because the (now invisible) dissolved gas goes to where the water goes, and if you don't have good distribution then that gold is also lost, along with the bubbles that are just shooting out to the top and away. Some folks get lucky and without realizing it, they have good flow/distribution. They turn up the light and the carpet fills in quickly, so they erroneously conclude that carpets need high light.
It's great being lucky, but long term, it's better to be good.

Cheers,
 
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Karmicnull

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Well, put that on your list of "must see" mate, via Netflix or whatever. It's actually a trilogy. The first movie is 20 years old now (amazing).
The first film is unmissable. The other two IMO dilute the impact of the first. But I concur wholly: The Matrix has to go on the 'must see' list.
 

ceg4048

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Yeah, I hear they're planning a 4th installment, which is disappointing as they will never recapture the magic...

Cheers,
 

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Cd2021

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*** Now the offices response.
Hi Ceg,

I read it previously, think will be good now my understanding is better. And not just a shock from thinking I’m doing things right to very very wrong.
My tap water is medium hard, I don’t get limescale build in on taps or kettle, but I know my phosphates are through the roof. My LFS has been unfortunate to have a water issue which wiped out most of their stock initially and not been been able to use their freshly setup racks because of it. They have the water tested and phosphates were 4/5 times the limit. Plus other things, within 2 days they have a slime on the tank. And no one is able to help them. They’re a great shop, I won’t mention names as there’s sponsors on here, but George has done a couple of scapes for them.
So I suspect I fall into the iron phosphate issue. I’m currently doing the 3 then 2, trying to find the chemical people are putting in then dosing both daily, can’t seem to find it. I’ll update if I do.

haha,, that definitely sounds like you’d love it set up! Glad your weather is changing for the better, we’ve had the wettest may on record. Thought my windscreen was going to go through with the hail stones on the way home from work! 30mph down the a3, nightmare!

ah I get you, so generally you guys will follow the same sort of philosophy of tank setups etc. I get it’s hard to see how people are running tanks day to day when in videos always going to run high light to make the tank look better.

Regarding carpet plants, would you not really recommend trying in my setup, or especially until I have healthy growing remainder on my plants. Think this is the best my tank has ever looked.

Then co2 am I right in thinking, you
Mentioned 90 of the gas goes into the atmosphere and basically useless. The bubbles on the tank are part of the 90%. And they will not affect my ph level etc. But of course higher gas level will result in more bubbles in the tank. Unless I got for a co2 reactor setup?
Id take a bit of luck at times, not have to learn every step of the way!

ive attached a picture, excuse the dirty glass. But growing in nicely since the rescape.

thanks Chris
 

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Cd2021

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Forgot to mention, think I’m going to leak the power head and look at a submersible pump the can attach a spray bar to it. Think that’ll be a better idea?

Thanks
Chris
 

ceg4048

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My tap water is medium hard, I don’t get limescale build in on taps or kettle, but I know my phosphates are through the roof. My LFS has been unfortunate to have a water issue which wiped out most of their stock initially and not been been able to use their freshly setup racks because of it. They have the water tested and phosphates were 4/5 times the limit. Plus other things, within 2 days they have a slime on the tank. And no one is able to help them. They’re a great shop, I won’t mention names as there’s sponsors on here, but George has done a couple of scapes for them.
So I suspect I fall into the iron phosphate issue. I’m currently doing the 3 then 2, trying to find the chemical people are putting in then dosing both daily, can’t seem to find it. I’ll update if I do.
Hi Chris,
Sorry, but nobody knows what their phosphate levels are. Firstly, Phosphate test kits don't tell you anything. You only ever know how much PO4 you have actually put into the tank. Secondly, PO4 is never responsible for wiping out fish. Again, you must be listening to folks who are mistaken in their interpretation of the facts. You mention that supposedly someone's water supply is 4/5 times the limit. Exactly what limit are we talking about? The World Health Organization specifies a limit for drinking water at 0.1 ppm. Some municipalities add PO4 to water to delay the corrosion of metal pipes and to help prevent the heavy metals like lead from entering the drinking water. Phosphate does no kill tropical fish. There is no way your LFS can blame PO4 as the prime cause of their stock being wiped out. Assuming it is something in the water, it is more likely to be some kind of prophylactic injected into the water supply to kill bacteria, or heavy metals, or some natural agent such as the bacteria. There is no such thing as an "Iron Phosphate issue." Iron Phosphate is a simple precipitate and merely falls to the substrate. If this happens, both Iron and Phosphate get tied up and are removed from the water column. If this happens you would have seen the precipitate appear as cloudiness from the particles falling out of solution. If someone is blaming PO4 for their troubles they are barking up the wrong tree while the real culprit remains hidden.

ah I get you, so generally you guys will follow the same sort of philosophy of tank setups etc. I get it’s hard to see how people are running tanks day to day when in videos always going to run high light to make the tank look better.
Again, there is no crime in using high light. I'm as guilty as anyone - but we know that light goes hand in hand with CO2+flow+distribution. If any of these are weak then problems typically arise. The guilt resides in hobbyist investing in high light to the exclusion of the other half of the equation.
Regarding carpet plants, would you not really recommend trying in my setup, or especially until I have healthy growing remainder on my plants. Think this is the best my tank has ever looked.
Carpet plants will be fine. I see no reason to avoid them. Perhaps try one of the easier varieties such as P. helferi which is a faster growing variety. Crypt parva is also a nice addition, and is a darker green to offset the light greens in the tank.
Then co2 am I right in thinking, you
Mentioned 90 of the gas goes into the atmosphere and basically useless. The bubbles on the tank are part of the 90%. And they will not affect my ph level etc. But of course higher gas level will result in more bubbles in the tank. Unless I got for a co2 reactor setup?
Yes many people have switched to in-line devices - some more elaborate than others. These work fine.
Forgot to mention, think I’m going to leak the power head and look at a submersible pump the can attach a spray bar to it. Think that’ll be a better idea?
Submersible pumps can also be big and bulky, so it's just a matter of aesthetics. Either method will work. I've never tried a submersible connected to a spraybar but can't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

The tank is looking pretty nice to me. Your on the path, for sure.
Cheers,
 

Cd2021

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Hi Ceg,

Apologies for such a delay responding, been flat out with work starting to pick back up!

I worded that extremely badly, regarding the LFS. They have an issue with the water had it tested and the phosphate levels were higher that it should be for water from the tap. Agreed that it wouldn't wipe out the fish. However a "bacteria" has been found in the water that could cause this to happen (honestly have no idea what it is). The water is fine for a few days then will go extremely cloudy and and slimy on the glass. The local water board will not test in the shop either, just outside. They have managed to source a huge container and are now trying to do it with RO water.

Okay, that makes sense, how do you run your lighting? Tubes or LED? a full period of high lighting or a big ramp up? Don't worry i'm not thinking of doing this just curious. Although i'm barely seeing any any since the rescape. Few spots on the glass here any there. Annoyingly my Co2 ran out Saturday, but will be sorting it back out this evening.

That looks quite nice, may be worth a go. I have Monte Carlo on my previous tank and that didn't work at all. But i know now that my flow, co2 etc was terrible on the tank (rear chambered aqua nano 60/ 100l).

Okay, that makes sense. I still need to order the replacement membrane and change them over. May do that with a filter clean in a couple of weeks time. I find with the Oase Biomaster 600's i don't have to often clean the filter out often. Some people i've seen have report they don't clean them out as the pre filter catches a lot of the mess. Not something i'm planning on doing.

My thinking on the submersable pump was that my back ground is black and where i'd want to place a power head would just be going straight into all the wood, therefore pretty pointless.

Thank you! Yes, the growth at present is the best i've seen on any of my tanks. I'd just like to stabilize it, then like to try get the really nice greens and reds that i've seen others getting.

Thanks
Chris
 

ceg4048

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how do you run your lighting? Tubes or LED? a full period of high lighting or a big ramp up?
Hi Chris, I've used lots of different lighting technologies. I currently have LEDs and the controller allows me to slowly ramp up the intensity, but I do not need to use full power at any time. I have a PAR meter, so I can use the readings at the substrate level to set the maximum intensity to about 40-60 micromoles.
My thinking on the submersable pump was that my back ground is black and where i'd want to place a power head would just be going straight into all the wood, therefore pretty pointless
Yeah, every tank has it's compromises, but the important thing is that you now understand what the fundamental issues are and therefore you can perform a logical analysis in order to find the right solutions.
Thank you! Yes, the growth at present is the best i've seen on any of my tanks. I'd just like to stabilize it, then like to try get the really nice greens and reds that i've seen others getting.
No worries mate, Once everything stabilizes you can experiment with different nutrient levels to see what the effects are. So for example you'll be able to test the theory that reduced NO3 can bring out the reds. This isn't something that I do, but others have claimed that it works. Again, the important thing is that you must first be able to grow plants problem free in order to draw the right conclusions about cause and effect.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

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Hi Ceg,

So sorry for a really delayed response. Been absolutely flat out now things are opening up. I work in the motor industry so we have just exploded now can get cars in for servicing and repairs. What did you think of the race on Sunday? Enjoying this season so far!

That might be something I try next to be honest, lower the 4 hour period for co2 before lights come on, keep the lighting period at 8 hours then a long ramp up and ramp down. Seen a lot of good results with this. Still seeing very good results with the 2hr aquarist fertilizer and must say I'm tempted to try this.

Tank i think has been going extremely well, I've attached another image. Only type of algae that I've seen is a green of green spot on the plants in particular the alternanthera reineckii mini on the older leaves. I cannot seem to wipe it off so just taking those leaves off.

Just want to fill the front left and towards the centre, then i think i'll be happy for now. Any recommendation of plants for those gaps?

Thanks,
Chris
 

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ceg4048

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Hi Chris,
I missed the race, unfortunately. Had a power outage due a minor tornado passing nearby. It figures I'd miss one of the most exciting races. Looks like Lewis had his work cut out for him.
It's going to be difficult getting back to normal working routine. That's for sure, haha.

The tank is looking good. If you're wanting to add to that front area then you'll want something low and slower growing. Maybe try another carpet plant, Pogostemon helferi is an easier one. Have a go and see what you think.

New fertilizer brands seem to be coming out of the woodwork these days and they are pretty much all the same. They can't have anything different than what's in our cheap basic powders, I wouldn't get too excited about brand X. Just get the powders and carry on mate, trust me.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

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Hi Ceg,

Oh wow! Yeah missed a good race. Let's see what this weekend brings. Seems FIA have done everything in their power to stop Mercedes this year. We'll hopefully see the best of Lewis over this year.

I happy with it at the moment. Want to thicken out some of the stem plants and think the crypts may need thinning out again. Thank you, that's a really nice looking plant, i'll have to give it a go!

You've definitely not been wrong yet, look how far this tank has come. I'll stick with the powders. Any news on your tanks/ or your move. Really want to see a setup and growth of an expert.

Thanks
Chris
 

ceg4048

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Hi Chris,
Yeah that was a bummer missing it. Murphy's law I guess. Glad you are happy with the tank. P. Helferi is one of my favorite carpets because it's relatively undemanding. I've even seen it in non-CO2 tanks, which you can't say about a lot of carpets. In fact, it will grow out of control if you let it:
9281291411_7b09c34782_c.jpg



I'll probably pack up in a few months. Not quite sure of the destination yet. I really hate moving - and I move more than almost anyone I know. :dead:

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

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Hi Ceg,

That's a really nice plant. Will definitely have a look into them. I see tropica do them. The colours you get on your pictures is amazing. Do you use any editing software or a certain camera?

Typically, as this tank stabilizes my other tank, non planted with Malawi in (Chindongo Saulosi), similar to what George has done with his is suffering with brown algae. At first I thought it was diatoms, the tank is now 3-4 months old and certainly isn't improving. If anything getting worse. I have dropped the light to 6 hours during the week then 8 at the weekend. Only on a stock Fluval light, running a 1600lph power head and fluval 307 (tank is 125l).

Thanks
Chris
 

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