• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Advice welcome

2

25993

Guest
This is my first go at setting up a new aquariam. API freshwater master test kit, house water PH 6.8 , Nitrate 0 , added 8 gallon to tank treated with Aquarian Tap Safe , fit 25watt heater set at 72*F , a double sponge filter and a 5w 6500k daylight LED bulb. Washed gravel several times till it ran clear, the last one with 'tap safe' water then added to tank. It doesn't say what it is but I think it's Basalt ?
Gravel.jpg

I had some lumps of Hawaii red, Lava left over from another project trimmed with angle grinder and drilled several holes through for Shrimp caves then boiled them in tap safe water and arranged them in the tank, also boiled a piece of Limestone and a small cuttlefish bone which I set under the sponge filter outlet as a PH buffer. I'd had some Java moss from 'k2aqua' in a jar of tank water in quarantine for a few days so added to the tank, left the tank to rest a couple of days then added Seachem Satability for a Bacteria start and started testing
Day 1 - Temp 72*F - PH 6.4 - Ammonia 0.25 - used an ammonia calculator and added 2ml of Taylors 9.5% Ammonia
Day 2 - Temp 71*F - PH 6.6 - Ammonia 2.0 - Nitrite 0.25
Day 4 - Temp 75*F - PH 6.6 - Ammonia 2.0 - Nitrite 0.50
Day 6 - Temp 73*F -PH 7.0 - Ammonia 4.0 - Nitrite 1.0 - Nitrate 40 ? So I tested the house tap water Nitrate 0.0
So my first question to the Forum should I just keep checking ever 2 days and see if the Java moss uses some of the Nitrate before 25% water change ? I'm not planning on getting any Shrimp for a few weeks
06.jpg

07.jpg

Thanks for your time and knowledge
 
Hi

Personally, I'd ditch all the dosing and testing equipment and just let nature take care of the tank the next few weeks.
2 ml seems a lot more than a decent group of shrimp will excrete on a daily basis. I understand the rational from the perspective of the dosing and testing technique, I just question the relevance. But perhaps "cyclists" on this forum can assist you.

The only thing I'd change (but sometimes it can be hard to tell from an image) is that I would dim the lights. At least for the time being. Anything which is good for plants, is good for algae too. So make the conditions less ideal and keep the plants...

It wouldn't hurt to add some fast growers in your tank, like a floater or a creeper (submersed/emersed) like a Hydrocotyle species. Floaters and creepers (at least, when emersed) will take in nutrients a little faster. They are more responsive and hence also communicate faster if mineral levels are OK.

I'm a little confused by the description given by the supplier of your substrate. Then again, I always look for the ingredients and skip the marketing lines.

Conduct a modest water change every week. This most likely provides all the minerals your plants require under dimmed light.

Perhaps I'd also ditch the heater. Saves money and energy. Besides, your shrimp very likely won't be needing one. Which genus/species of shrimp do you have in mind? There are a few exceptions, but these are not the usual ones.

I think a natural, seasonal fluctuation will benefit most species longterm. When spring kicks in, you'll very most likely see berried specimen.

It seems you're cultivating a special moss (liverwort?) on the substrate. I think I would place this closer to the (dimmed) light. At least for the time being.

A month from now, you can safely release shrimp. Pretty sure of this. Keep the aeration up and offer food in very modest quantities.

Regarding feeding; you can keep a shrimp population with or without feeding them. In general, the carrying capacity of the latter is a lot lower in my experience. I only feed my Taiwan bee tank, and their numbers are so much higher than all my tanks with Neocaridina shrimp, which I do not feed.

Alternatively, you could crank up the lights and welcome a rich microflora and -fauna. I assume the carrying capacity will go up considerably, without needing to feed your shrimp. But the display might not be your taste.

Cheers
 
Last edited:
Since the substrate 'ensures very good rooting', you should get some stem plants to absorb more nitrates. Also, there isn't a need to add ammonia to cycle a planted tank. I'd reduce NH3 from the water column via water changes before adding more plants. Your tank is new and still is cycling. Patience is my best advice. Plant heavy (floaters help too), monitor plant growth (you may need to dose ferts thereafter) and then add lifestock six weeks later (or earlier if nitrites and ammonia falls to 0 ppm respectively, though I don't bother testing these days; Why not wait? Set up another tank meanwhile, haha).
 
Hi all,
It doesn't say what it is but I think it's Basalt ?
Looks like it might be <"basalt or andesite">, based on the blurb, colour and shape. I'll be honest I'm not keen on it, <"I don't like gravel">I <"prefer sand">, and I really don't like angular gravel (or rocks). Fine for <"Alpine plants">, not great for fish. Edit: Too late I see. Despite my reservations, it should be fine.
and added 2ml of Taylors 9.5% Ammonia
<"Stop adding the ammonia">, this is much more important than the gravel as time is short and it will <"just make a horrible mess"> and may actually lengthen the time until your tank is "livestock safe". There are no two ways about it, basically all you are told by LFS (and read on forums etc.) about <"cycling and ammonia, is wrong">.
So my first question to the Forum should I just keep checking ever 2 days and see if the Java moss uses some of the Nitrate before 25% water change ? I'm not planning on getting any Shrimp for a few weeks
Just carry on changing some water every couple of days. I'm not keen on nitrate tests (it is a value I would like to know, but test kits <"tend to be quite inaccurate">). A floating plant will <"really help with reducing nitrogen levels">. I'm an <"Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium leavigatum) obsessive">, but any floating plant performs the same role.

cheers Darrel
 
I was being gentle regarding the cycling part.

The last time I mentioned (on another forum) how and how much ammonia is excreted by livestock, under what conditions it can be dangerous, but often isn't, and how little space in a tank is required for microbes to convert the little bit of ammonia (provided oxygen levels are healthy), it did not end well for me.
 
it did not end well for me.
Lol... cycling a tank with ammonia is entrenched in the aquarium keeping world and I guess it will take many many years before attitudes and beliefs change.

Thankfully we have people like darrel and yourself who are willing to explain that there is an alternative approach, and more importantly an approach that works. Took me over 30 yrs to see the light, so keep banging the drum and ignore the inbox from non believer's.
 
Lol... cycling a tank with ammonia is entrenched in the aquarium keeping world and I guess it will take many many years before attitudes and beliefs change.

Thankfully we have people like darrel and yourself who are willing to explain that there is an alternative approach, and more importantly an approach that works. Took me over 30 yrs to see the light, so keep banging the drum and ignore the inbox from non believer's.

40 years ago, my grandfather told me, "to aerate the water well and don't overfeed the fish". He didn't have biology degrees or understanding I guess of N, C, H, O cycles.

This was before "technology" took over from "biology".

Because biology is so adaptive, you can intervene in many useless ways, and still get the results.
 
Hi all,
The last time I mentioned (on another forum) how and how much ammonia is excreted by livestock, under what conditions it can be dangerous, but often isn't, and how little space in a tank is required for microbes to convert the little bit of ammonia (provided oxygen levels are healthy), it did not end well for me.
Unfortunately a few of us <"have been there"> and it <"rarely ends well">. I think some of it is just that a <"simple, black and white, narrative"> appeals to people.
cycling a tank with ammonia is entrenched in the aquarium keeping world and I guess it will take many many years before attitudes and beliefs change.

Thankfully we have people like darrel and yourself who are willing to explain that there is an alternative approach, and more importantly an approach that works. Took me over 30 yrs to see the light, so keep banging the drum and ignore the inbox
I think so, we've just got to <"keep on chipping away"> and trying to <"call out disinformation">, but it is dispiriting.

From my personal point of view things have improved in the ~15 years since I started the cycling posts, mainly because people have found <"Ammonia Oxidising Archaea (AOA)"> and <"COMAMMOX Nitrospira spp."> I always thought that something like them <"would exist">, but their discovery has definitely given me some more ammunition.

In some ways the thing that has helped most has been the articles about planted tanks by noted fish keepers like <"Mark Allison"> etc.

cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:
Many thanks for all the replies, I turned the heater off last night the tank was 62*F this morning, it's only 25watt and certainly not on all the time the lowest I could set it to is 68*F
if 62's too cold ? The light is a daylight 5watt GU10 LED bulb which was near the tank top I raised it to 18" which dimmed the light
08.jpg

they do them in 3watt as well which I might try, the problem is subjective what's too bright too dim ? I'll use the Ammonia for cleaning the house windows and start doing some 10% water changes before testing again to see if the Ammonia and Nitrate have come down. I've ordered some floaters and stemmed plants, I'll then leave the tank to get on with it for a few weeks.
I don't like the look of the sponge filter as it's taking up one end of the tank which I could use for stemmed plants so will remove it and rely on the Hawaii Lava wich is very porous to grow the Bacteria colony (maybe turn the air up) as I don't want a tank full of Shrimps a couple of Amano will be fine.
 
I don't like the look of the sponge filter as it's taking up one end of the tank which I could use for stemmed plants so will remove it and rely on the Hawaii Lava wich is very porous to grow the Bacteria colony (maybe turn the air up) as I don't want a tank full of Shrimps a couple of Amano will be fine.
Sponge filters are great for shrimp to graze on. Along with the outdated views on 'Cycling' the ability for bacteria to colonise media has nothing to do with how porous it is.

Like others have said i wouldn't worry about ammonia, and nitrate. Plant growth will dictate the health of the tank.
 
Hi all,
I don't like the look of the sponge filter as it's taking up one end of the tank which I could use for stemmed plants so will remove it and rely on the Hawaii Lava wich is very porous to grow the Bacteria colony (maybe turn the air up)
I'm sponge filter fan as well, but I'd expect the lava rock would be fine with the <"air stone underneath it">.
It wouldn't hurt to add some fast growers in your tank, like a floater or a creeper
I agree, I think you will run into problems with algae if you don't have a fast growing plant. They will deplete <"all forms of fixed nitrogen">. I'd actually do much larger volume water changes until you've depleted the nitrogen (that you have added from the initial ammonia addition).

cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:
he last time I mentioned (on another forum) how and how much ammonia is excreted by livestock, under what conditions it can be dangerous, but often isn't, and how little space in a tank is required for microbes to convert the little bit of ammonia (provided oxygen levels are healthy), it did not end well for me.
He is fighting the good fight. 😆
 
Sunday 10% water change Monday 50% water change Tuesday 50% water change
Wednesday Ammonia 0.25 Nitrite 1 Nitrate 40 So 110% water change didn't alter the Nitrite or Nitrate levels ?
I've x2 Marimo moss balls and a handfull of Salvinia Natans in a quarantine jar to go in today and some
Brazilian Pennywort coming in the post
 
It's been a week and todays readings Temp 70*F , PH 6 , Ammonia 0.50 , Nitrite 2.00 , Nitrate 40.00 . The Pennywort's growing. I'll check again next week
13.jpg
 
Another weeks gone by I've done two 25% WC's and kept the water test kit in the cupboard.
So rack of eye parameters :- the waters wet and the plants seem to be growing
14.jpg
 
upped my game so thought I do another post, todays readings :-
PH - 6, Ammonia - 0 ppm, Nitrite - 0 ppm, Nitrate - 10 ppm, CO2 - Green, TDS - 265
01.jpg

02.jpg

03.jpg

04.jpg

I turned the lighting up to take photo's. Lights are on 10 hours with CO2, then airstone under Lava rock turned on while it's dark
 
Back
Top