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A Tale of Two Roma's

John q

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Almost upto date with the journal.

Both tanks doing ok now 75% Ei dosing regime restored. It's hard to tell from full tank shots but there is a small amount of bba that generally accumulates on the leaf edges of the slow growers like anubias, bucephalandra and the cryptocorynes, especially in the path where these plants get misted with CO2 bubbles.
Having read @Geoffrey Rea mention this on a number of occasions I ended up adding a few root tabs around some of the rooted plants and moved the anubias to slightly shaded area's, also made sure to tuck some of these roots into the substrate. So far it seems to be working.

Tank temperatures sit at 25.4C and get 50% wc per week.

Tank pictures from beginning of January.
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Usual critter pics but thought I'd better add some plant pics to.

Anubias nana petite and nana gold in new surroundings.
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Horned nerite keeping those leaves clean.
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Echinodorus rubin (I think?)
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Inquisitive Angel eyeing up a Batik nerite snail.
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Mikrogeophagus altispinosus ~ Bolivian ram.
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Mikrogeophagus ramirezi ~ German ram.
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Garra flavatra coming to say hello during maintenance.
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And finally Corydoras CW010 ~ Gold laser.
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Cheers.
 

John q

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Weekly update..

Quite a few changes this week. I've been tinkering with the fertiliser dosing for a number of weeks, one of the main reasons for doing this is to see if reducing the dosage puts less of a pull on CO2 demands, which I seem to struggle with. I also want to try and educate myself a bit, good or bad. All the info on dosing can be found in this thread page 10 onwards Lean dosing pros and cons

In other news both tanks have had a trim.

In this tank I ended up making a clearing in the centre to accommodate some, as the wife would put it "colourful plants." Apparently all the plants in this tank look the same... So out went the Ceratopteris, the Hydrocotyle got hacked and the Vallisneria thinned out.
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In its place went some Ludwigia repens that was already in the tank and some new purchases comprising of Ludwigia peruviana, Murdannia keisak, Pogostemon erectus and a beautiful Cryptocoryne spiralis red from konrad.
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I've no idea how these plants will fair, I have a knack of killing anything that's not in tropicas easy category.

In the other tank the Vallisneria and P. Gayi got thinned, a clump of Lobelia cardinals that's been in the tank since April got removed, and quite a bit of stunted/eaten Hygrophila polysperma got removed. Added a couple of stems of Pogostemon erectus to see if they'll grow and topped-re planted various stems.
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The corydoras have been busy laying eggs, she even paused for a snap.
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She laid the eggs in her usual place but sadly the other fish had picked it clean within 24 hrs.
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I think thats about it for now, so a few more pics.

Hydrocotyle with Ceratopteris in the back ground.
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C. venezuelanus.
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A couple of random fish chilling shots.
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And a moody looking Neon rainbow.
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Cheers.
 
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John q

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Note to self and anybody else that's reading this, after doing a big trim be sure to watch the co2 levels the following day. I came home last Tuesday to a yellow almost clear dc in one of the tanks and the ph had dropped to 6.2, which is 0.2 below its usual drop. Thankfully all the inhabitants were fine.

So this week revolved around me tweaking the gas levels and the wife doing hourly ph checks whilst I was at work. Normal service was quickly resumed but the episode reminded me that things can quickly go wrong when we inject co2 into our tanks.

The tanks themselves don't appear much different, I'm still getting small amounts of bba on the hardscape and leaf edges of some plants but nothing that weekly spot dosing doesn't keep in check.

My ongoing tinkering with fertiliser dosing continues and can honestly say I haven't seen any positive or negative effects so far, although to be fair the latest regime has only been running 7 days so still in its infancy.

Latest tank shots.
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I've been a bit concerned about the L471 of late, its seemed far less active in the last few weeks and then I noticed its belly looked a little sunken. Thus began operation "build up" this involved target feeding with a syringe containing blackworms, bloodworms, brine shrimp and grindal worms. It seems to be working and the little snowball is far more active and its belly no longer looks sunken. Its also realised where these tasty morsels get deposited and waits patiently in this spot around 7pm every evening, the corydoras have also twigged on to this and take full advantage.
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I've had a small amount of moss in this tank for some time and its never really done anything, adding C02 really seems to have kickstarted it, a small drifting fragment that landed on the dragon stone is slowly but surely spreading and clearly enjoying life.
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Really annoyed I can't get to premier aquatics for Fish Club Friday this weekend, I keep threatening to go and this week the special guest is no other than the esteemed George farmer.

I have a consolation trip planned to pier aquatics on Saturday just to have a nosey at their corydoras selection, don't have anything specific in mind but suspect I'll be tempted by something. 😃

Thanks for reading.
 

Hufsa

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What do you think caused the extra ph drop? Less uptake by plants, change in surface agitation (was there a plant growing there?), something else? I want to avoid this happening to me so im very curious
 

John q

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Probably a combination of a few things @Hufsa I'd resumed lean dosing so that had an impact on the amount of co2 the plants were uptaking, I'd also removed a large portion of Ceratopteris thalictroides and Hydrocotyle leucocephala, both fast growers and guessing they used a lot of the available co2. Lastly the above two plants were in the direct line of the outlet flow so suddenly I had greatly improved flow around the tank.

All in all I'd created the perfect conditions for things to go horribly wrong.
 

Gill

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Really annoyed I can't get to premier aquatics for Fish Club Friday this weekend, I keep threatening to go and this week the special guest is no other than the esteemed George farmer.
I have a consolation trip planned to pier aquatics on Saturday just to have a nosey at their corydoras selection, don't have anything specific in mind but suspect I'll be tempted by something. 😃
Thanks for reading.
Same, I live closer to Steve's than before. And its till 1.5hr journey for me, So too far just for one store.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Really annoyed I can't get to premier aquatics for Fish Club Friday this weekend, I keep threatening to go and this week the special guest is no other than the esteemed George farmer.
That really is a "two for the price of one" offer. I've been trying to find a context to visit Ste Chesters, Pier and Aqualife Leyland etc. but it is a long haul from here.

cheers Darrel
 

John q

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Hi John, I am trying to figure out which of the lean dosing regimes your following, such as weekly NPK and trace ppm levels... are you doing anything different wrt remineralization (Ca, Mg) ?

Great looking tanks, as always!

Cheers,
Michael
Hiya mate, yeah I should have posted my regime in this thread, I'm also finding it confusing to keep track of when it's fragmented over 3 different threads.

Out of my tap.
Ca 6.6ppm
Mg 1.18ppm

I add ~2ppm Ca & 0.9ppm Mg with the water change.

Weekly dosing is.
N03 8.8ppm
N 0.65ppm (from urea)
P04 1.19ppm
K 6ppm
Mg 0.4ppm
Fe Edta 0.4ppm & Fe dtpa 0.05

To be honest I'm probably going to pull the plug on this. Will update the other thread but in a nut shell I've had an explosion of bba in the last couple of days, gsa and getting some weird ass curling on some leaves. I can hear Clive shouting from the back benches "co2 co2" which might be the case, lol. For now though I think I need to follow my gut and put the tank back on an even keel.

Same, I live closer to Steve's than before. And its till 1.5hr journey for me, So too far just for one store.
Probably 1hr 10mins for me if the roads are quiet, if its busy that can become a 2hr stress raising jaunt down the M6.
Hi all,

That really is a "two for the price of one" offer. I've been trying to find a context to visit Ste Chesters, Pier and Aqualife Leyland etc. but it is a long haul from here.

cheers Darrel

Definitely Darrel, meeting Steve and @George Farmer in the same room... bliss.

I really like what ste is trying to achieve with his shop and wish him all the success with it.
His fish club Fridays are geared up to include the whole family, last week they had a girl in from animal teach showing off snake's, lizards and various other creepy crawlies.
 

MichaelJ

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Hiya mate, yeah I should have posted my regime in this thread, I'm also finding it confusing to keep track of when it's fragmented over 3 different threads.

Out of my tap.
Ca 6.6ppm
Mg 1.18ppm

I add ~2ppm Ca & 0.9ppm Mg with the water change.

Weekly dosing is.
N03 8.8ppm
N 0.65ppm (from urea)
P04 1.19ppm
K 6ppm
Mg 0.4ppm
Fe Edta 0.4ppm & Fe dtpa 0.05

To be honest I'm probably going to pull the plug on this. Will update the other thread but in a nut shell I've had an explosion of bba in the last couple of days, gsa and getting some weird ass curling on some leaves.
Ah man! I am sorry to hear that! Could it be that your implementing the lean regime too fast? I am going down the same route, sort of at least, with one of my tanks where I keep shrimps (keeping the same dosing as always in my other tank), mainly to see how low I can get my TDS while keeping plant health at the same level... but I am doing it slowly .... really slow... I am cutting down just a little bit every week - except for my PO4 where I initially made a big jump from 10ppm to 5ppm per week. So right now I am at:
15 ppm of NO3
4 ppm of PO4
20 ppm of K
Traces I left unchanged at my current target of 1.25 ppm of Fe with ~1 ppm of Fe EDTA and ~0.25 ppm of Fe Gluconate. In addition I switched over to 100% RO water. Since I am keeping shrimps in this tank I am keeping my relatively high contents of Ca and Mg (30 ppm and 10ppm respectively).

So far I haven't seen any negative or positive change - except for the lowering of my TDS - which I think benefits my livestock (I think I might have seen one of my big Cardinal females giving me a thumbs up the other day...). The last time I checked, the tank was sitting just a smidge above 160 ppm. And with a couple of more 40% weekly water changes it should get down to 145-150 ppm.

Realistically, I don't think if I will go lower on NPK than 10 ppm of NO3, 3 ppm of PO4 and 15 ppm of K... And if I start to see deficiencies I will slowly dial my dosing back up to the point where things return to "normal".... if all works out I am going to implement the same regime in my other tank, and start pestering everyone doing low-tech about how great the middle of the road is :)

I can hear Clive shouting from the back benches "co2 co2" which might be the case, lol.
Well, you didn't change your CO2 setup that much? (I suppose) and don't have "new" flow issues, but for implementing changes too fast? perhaps that might be cause for some reprimanding ... now that you mention Clive / @ceg4048 ... where is he anyway? He had to relocate to a place where they couldn't spell aquarium... I thought that was a dead giveaway to mean my Great State of Minnesota, but it wasn't :)
... well, he will be back soon to lecture us on our shenanigans I'm sure. But I still believe in the lean approach regardless of my ability to actually implement it.... @Happi's and many others, results speaks for themselves, but it might just be a little harder than it appears, especially if your coming from full EI - which is fair enough.

For now though I think I need to follow my gut and put the tank back on an even keel.
Well, I'd go with your gut feeling any day of the week when it comes to keeping a planted tank... as evident by your results.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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John q

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Ah man! I am sorry to hear that! Could it be that your implementing the lean regime too fast?
More than likely... My usual approach to changes where the tanks concerned is to do it very very gradually. We all know plants can adapt to their surroundings, we see it constantly, but, and its a big but, they need time to do this. For some reason with this exercise I assumed the cold turkey approach was needed, big water change, cleanse the water column, and then bam instantly reduce the ferts. I guess I was looking for instant gratification. 🙄
Well, you didn't change your CO2 setup that much? (I suppose) and don't have "new" flow issues,
Didn't change it at all. I'd reduced the nutrients and slowed down growth, which in turn reduced demand for co2. I should have preempted the gas could spike and made some minor adjustments just like I would if I lowerd the light intensity but I didn't. Whether or not this ripple caused the resulting wave I'm un sure.
now that you mention Clive / @ceg4048 ... where is he anyway?
Probably sat at home having fits of hysterical laughter reading threads like this. 🤣
I am going down the same route, sort of at least, with one of my tanks where I keep shrimps (keeping the same dosing as always in my other tank), mainly to see how low I can get my TDS while keeping plant health at the same level...
Tom barr always said "try it and see" if he hadn't have tried things and witnessed the outcomes we'd all still be running walstad tanks or been petrified of adding phosphate to our tanks.
I think we have to experiment, try and reach our goals, and by doing this we hopefully learn something about our tanks and plants, and maybe something about ourselves.
 

MichaelJ

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More than likely... My usual approach to changes where the tanks concerned is to do it very very gradually. We all know plants can adapt to their surroundings, we see it constantly, but, and its a big but, they need time to do this. For some reason with this exercise I assumed the cold turkey approach was needed, big water change, cleanse the water column, and then bam instantly reduce the ferts. I guess I was looking for instant gratification. 🙄
I hear you... Well, I think if you have done it slowly the outcome would have been different - whatever slowly means... it likely also depends on the plants... My various Anubias and various Swords are tough as nails so I am too worried about those, but I have lots of different crypts and I know they don't like rapid chances so I am keeping a close watch on those, if they (and especially my floating plants) seems unaffected I'll continue the descent.
Didn't change it at all. I'd reduced the nutrients and slowed down growth, which in turn reduced demand for co2. I should have preempted the gas could spike and made some minor adjustments just like I would if I lowerd the light intensity but I didn't. Whether or not this ripple caused the resulting wave I'm un sure.
thats a good question as well.... lots of variables.
Probably sat at home having fits of hysterical laughter reading threads like this. 🤣
:lol:
Tom barr always said "try it and see" if he hadn't have tried things and witnessed the outcomes we'd all still be running walstad tanks or been petrified of adding phosphate to our tanks.
I think we have to experiment, try and reach our goals, and by doing this we hopefully learn something about our tanks and plants, and maybe something about ourselves.
Certainly. When you get the tank back on an even keel, you could try again I suppose.

Cheers,
Michael
 

John q

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I watched some of the live link that Steve did but hadn't seen this video Darrel.
For anybody that's wondering Steve is just as enthusiastic in person has he is in the video, he obviously loves what he does and his passion for aquatics is reflected in the high quality of the fish he sells.
 
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