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A noob vs some hardest plants

eminor

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Joined
5 Feb 2021
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402
Location
France
Hello, I'm making a little diary to tell my madness, or rather a certain love or neurosis of the difficulty in a general way.

The tank i'm presenting is a one year old tank, it has suffered and survived BBA's, Green Water, diatoms and lot's of trouble. This tank started almost at the same time as my arrival on this forum. I changed lot of "scape" in it

My goal is to achieve a Dutch type aquarium, there are in this tank some very difficult types of plants, here are the characteristics of the setup:

tank size : 60*30*30 around 51 liters
Lighting: 2*24 T5-HO 3000k + purple @25cm ~ 120+ PAR
Filter: Eden 521 800 L/h + circulation pump in the bottom left of 200 l/h
CO2: Nicrew inline atomizer
Soil : Sand + jbl aquabasis plus
Water : rain + tap water, KH ~ 6-7, ph around 7
Fertilizer : EI (KNO3 : 15 ppm, PO4 : 2 ppm, K: 20ppm (using K2SO4 + PO4 to reach it), Fe : 0.5 ppm, Magnesium : 10 ppm)

One of the hardest in that setup is that i only have access in the front, and little on the back
12 december 2021 :

this is the tank right now :

Easiest to medium plant are doing kind of well

20211212_171146.jpg

flow representation :

red is the main filter pattern, yellow is the circulation pump to try to maximize the co2 and nutrients to the bottom leaves

002.jpg

20211212_171212.jpg

20211212_171217.jpg

20211212_171227.jpg

20211212_171231.jpg

But Myriophyllum Tuberculatum going to turn me crazy, there is hope tough, you can see some new shoots, i hope it won't melt


20211212_171207.jpg

Cabomba furcata is also so hard for me, so far it's kind of ok

20211212_171201.jpg

the extra light seems to please the pogostemon stellatus

20211212_171253.jpg

there is myriophyllum red stem on the left of the pogostemon, it's supposed to grow like weed, definitely not here :(

20211212_171253.jpg

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i tough the next plant was ammana senegalensis, but it really doesn't look like that at all, that's one of the plant that really love the tank

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MichaelJ

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2021
Messages
1,690
Location
Minnesota, USA
Hello, I'm making a little diary to tell my madness, or rather a certain love or neurosis of the difficulty in a general way.

The tank i'm presenting is a one year old tank, it has suffered and survived BBA's, Green Water, diatoms and lot's of trouble. This tank started almost at the same time as my arrival on this forum. I changed lot of "scape" in it

My goal is to achieve a Dutch type aquarium, there are in this tank some very difficult types of plants, here are the characteristics of the setup:
Hi @eminor Its great to see your tank is coming along! It really takes persistence to make it work considering the issues you've faced along the way 👍 If you want to tweak a bit, as it grows in I would would up the Fe (to 1ppm/wk) and probably the the PO4 to 5ppm/wk, but you're probably just fine with what your doing for now.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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erwin123

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Joined
4 Mar 2021
Messages
859
Location
Singapore
I think you have all the necessary conditions for success - CO2, flow, light, EI ferts, so I look forward to seeing regular photo updates, so we can see the hard plants like tuberculatum and furcata grow!

you mentioned that you have a purple light in addition to 2 x T5 HO? is this a marine T5 bulb or something else? there's a lot of discussion about the newest high tech LEDs, but the power of inexpensive T5s to deliver huge amounts of PAR is sometimes overlooked :)
 

eminor

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Thread starter
Joined
5 Feb 2021
Messages
402
Location
France
Hi @eminor Its great to see your tank is coming along! It really takes persistence to make it work considering the issues you've faced along the way 👍 If you want to tweak a bit, as it grows in I would would up the Fe (to 1ppm/wk) and probably the the PO4 to 5ppm/wk, but you're probably just fine with with your doing for now.

Cheers,
Michael
Yes the tuberculatum seems to like Fe a lot, a lot of persistence for sure, but i think that to improve myself a lot i need to go into the devil, i mean high light is going to push me forward

I think you have all the necessary conditions for success - CO2, flow, light, EI ferts, so I look forward to seeing regular photo updates, so we can see the hard plants like tuberculatum and furcata grow!

you mentioned that you have a purple light in addition to 2 x T5 HO? is this a marine T5 bulb or something else? there's a lot of discussion about the newest high tech LEDs, but the power of inexpensive T5s to deliver huge amounts of PAR is sometimes overlooked :)
i have lots of bulb, on this setup i have sylvania fhe 830 24w 3000K, and amtra power plant (pinkish) i have it because it makes the orange glow, love it =)

i've never seen most beautiful light than t5 in my life on my opinion for sure =)
 
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eminor

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hello, some updates

I increased the temp from 23 to 26°c, i reduced the co2 because my shrimp where going to die, bba came out... but nothing crazy

i moved the furcata in the center, full light, it grows well, new stems coming from the soil, red/pink leaves

20211222_111012.jpg

the myriophyllum tuberculatum seems ok but the growth is not fast, i increased the iron from 0.5 to 1 ppm, we'll see

20211222_111024.jpg 20211222_111113.jpg

the ammania seems ok still can't figure out the exact species

20211222_111137.jpg

i introduced a new rotola which i don't know exactly the var neither, maybe some indica bonsai ?

20211222_111047.jpg

the pogostemon stellatus is growing but i don't know how to get it big and thick, it looks like baby plant...

20211222_111146.jpg

there is a myriophyllum behind the reineckii with red stem, it's supposed to grow like weed, so far the stem is red which is a good sign

20211222_111155.jpg

the limnophila bush has grown so much, i trimmed a bit though



20211222_111219.jpg
 

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erwin123

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4 Mar 2021
Messages
859
Location
Singapore
Good job on the Furcata. Not sure what happened to the Tuberculatum. My tank water temp is also 26 degrees though I would like it to be 25 degrees. 🧊

I agree that the Ammannia doesn't look like Senegelansis. Let me know if you find out what it is. I'm discovering that A. Senegelansis is a plant that grows BIG :cool:

The Rotala is likely Rotala Rotundifolia because of the red emersed stems, should be easy to grow.

If you like a challenge, you can try R. Wallichii (easy to grow, even in low tech, but hard to turn pink), or R. Macrandra Green (try to achieve the beautiful Yellow/gold colour see Libba's journal: Libba's 60P ), or R. Macrandra 'Variegated' .

I am dosing 0.35ppm Fe so I recently got EDDHA-Fe in order to add 0.1ppm weekly to my substrate to make it 0.45ppm per weekly, closer to the EI target. What type of chelated iron are you using?
 
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eminor

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5 Feb 2021
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Good job on the Furcata. Not sure what happened to the Tuberculatum. My tank water temp is also 26 degrees though I would like it to be 25 degrees. 🧊

I agree that the Ammannia doesn't look like Senegelansis. Let me know if you find out what it is. I'm discovering that A. Senegelansis is a plant that grows BIG :cool:

The Rotala is likely Rotala Rotundifolia because of the red emersed stems, should be easy to grow.

If you like a challenge, you can try R. Wallichii (easy to grow, even in low tech, but hard to turn pink), or R. Macrandra Green (try to achieve the beautiful Yellow/gold colour see Libba's journal: Libba's 60P ), or R. Macrandra 'Variegated' .

I am dosing 0.35ppm Fe so I recently got EDDHA-Fe in order to add 0.1ppm weekly to my substrate to make it 0.45ppm per weekly, closer to the EI target. What type of chelated iron are you using?
wallichii is coming don't worry, macandra too, weird thing is that i can't grow pinnatifada in this tank, i had it growing like hell in other tank with diy co2, alsmost no ferts...

i use kind of tnc trace, really similar though, i also have easy life ferro but never used it, maybe i should ?

Tuberculatum is the hardest plant so far, i really don't know what she needs to grow fast, i know she can grow 2 inches a day, should be a co2 issue again...

some website say that myriophyllum grow well in 20-24°c range, don't know if it's true...

I know that on this forum ceg told me that kelvin temperature dosn't matter but when i added 6500k + pink bulbs i had way faster growth, now i use 3000k + pink, growth is ok but nothing similar and my co2 with the 6500k bulb was really bad, that's weird
 

eminor

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Hi, hows the Furcata / Tuberculatum / Rotala Rotundifolia doing? Pls update with pics?

I'm wondering if the Ammannia in your tank is Pedicatella but still in emersed form - how long has it been in your tank? Should have changed form already: Ammannia pedicellata 'Golden' - NEW!!! - Dennerle Plants
well i restarted the tank, there is still ammania, furcata and tuberculatum which seems to be in a way better health in fluval stratum soil =)

i'll upload pictures
 

eminor

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here's some news

I changed the soil to fluval stratum, way easier to work with, i changed a bit the scape even if the hard plant stay in there =)

the pictures there are 1 week of growth, i(m using ceg spray bar method, exept my filter is not strong enough to move a large spray bar, so one in the middle seems good so far, all plant are moving. i use one t5ho 3000K because i love warm color, that's why plant seems yellow/orange a lot

The ammania which i still don't know what kind is it is growing well
20220105_192410.jpg

the rotala h'ra are doing great, at least 7-10cm in a week
20220105_192417.jpg

the pogostemon stellata seems to love the active soil !!
20220105_192423.jpg

there is the myriophyllum aquaticum red stem, growing fine, i don't really know how thick it become
20220105_192436.jpg

the tuberculatum is not leaving leaves anymore, the front stem is 1 weeks old, it was barely above the substrate
20220105_192442.jpg

pogostemon erectus introduced, and behind new rotala orange juice
20220105_192453.jpg

the pinnatifada which i wasn't able to grow at all in sand are now thriving there !!!
20220105_192504.jpg

cuba is growing, nice color etc, same with tripartita
20220105_192458.jpg
the furcata had mostly nothing left, you can see a great red new leaf !! it looks promising, on the left, i introduced a corymbosa, which i'm gonna to trim it really a lot to keep it under control
20220105_192423.jpg
 

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erwin123

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Joined
4 Mar 2021
Messages
859
Location
Singapore
here's some news

I changed the soil to fluval stratum, way easier to work with, i changed a bit the scape even if the hard plant stay in there =)

the pictures there are 1 week of growth, i(m using ceg spray bar method, exept my filter is not strong enough to move a large spray bar, so one in the middle seems good so far, all plant are moving. i use one t5ho 3000K because i love warm color, that's why plant seems yellow/orange a lot

The ammania which i still don't know what kind is it is growing well


the rotala h'ra are doing great, at least 7-10cm in a week


the pogostemon stellata seems to love the active soil !!


there is the myriophyllum aquaticum red stem, growing fine, i don't really know how thick it become


the tuberculatum is not leaving leaves anymore, the front stem is 1 weeks old, it was barely above the substrate


pogostemon erectus introduced, and behind new rotala orange juice


the pinnatifada which i wasn't able to grow at all in sand are now thriving there !!!


cuba is growing, nice color etc, same with tripartita

the furcata had mostly nothing left, you can see a great red new leaf !! it looks promising, on the left, i introduced a corymbosa, which i'm gonna to trim it really a lot to keep it under control

Great that the aquasoil has helped your plants grow better! Always watch your 'difficult' plant as they are the ones that tell you whether your tank is ok or not :cool:

If your H'ra has grown 7-10cm and the new growth is green - is it H'ra or Rotala Green? Because H'ra is such a fast growing plant, it 'converts' to coloured form pretty fast.
 

eminor

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Great that the aquasoil has helped your plants grow better! Always watch your 'difficult' plant as they are the ones that tell you whether your tank is ok or not :cool:

If your H'ra has grown 7-10cm and the new growth is green - is it H'ra or Rotala Green? Because H'ra is such a fast growing plant, it 'converts' to coloured form pretty fast.
tuberculatum and furcata and stellata are growing really well, which is a nice surprise

well, i think it's h'ra, it takes long before turning red, maybe not enough light ?
 

plantnoobdude

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uk
tuberculatum and furcata and stellata are growing really well, which is a nice surprise

well, i think it's h'ra, it takes long before turning red, maybe not enough light ?
h'ra needs stress to become red. either super strong light, or nutrient limitation, most commonly p or N.
 

erwin123

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h'ra needs stress to become red. either super strong light, or nutrient limitation, most commonly p or N.
true, but Eminor has 7-10cm of new growth under 150par from a double t5ho fixture over a 51 litre tank.

If you don't limit N, they should still turn pinkish under high light.
 

erwin123

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Singapore
Rotala Indica Bonsai.jpg


This is my Rotala Indica which matches the photo in Flowgrow:

The Rotala Indicas in your photo look different....
 

eminor

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i have tons of light, tons of co2 and i now think that my distribution is almost perfect, hard plant are growing, i won't play with nutrients limitation right now, i'e love to try, but i want to wait that other plants are growing well before.

It's either possible that I don't have 150 par, par meter are not cheap, i can't be sure, I follow some charts, I'm over 100 par that for sure, still my eyes might be wrong

Rotala walichii, myriophyllum monta... and prospernica palustris cuba are coming this week, few times ago i noticed the myriophyllum with red stem that's not growing fast, it's the myriophyllum brasiliensis which is way harder that standart aquaticum form

my nephew which have the exact same plant, he's 7 years old, he don't bother much, no fertilizer, no co2, plant are suffering a lot. for exemple, he have the ammania in his tank, the ammania is really pink/red, mine is yellow/orange

Hemianthus cuba is ok
20220110_214001.jpg
tripartita too
20220110_214012.jpg

Ammania seems ok still not red/pink like my nephew
20220110_214014.jpg

i don't really know which kind of rotala it is, i know that it can turn orange, already did, but this time they not willing to do it
20220110_214020.jpg
pogostemon stellata is growing well but no under pink leaves
20220110_214031.jpg

that's the myriophyllum which i think is brasiliensis, it grows okay, not fast tought
20220110_214051.jpg
 

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erwin123

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i have tons of light, tons of co2 and i now think that my distribution is almost perfect, hard plant are growing, i won't play with nutrients limitation right now, i'e love to try, but i want to wait that other plants are growing well before.

It's either possible that I don't have 150 par, par meter are not cheap, i can't be sure, I follow some charts, I'm over 100 par that for sure, still my eyes might be wrong
Yes, wonder why your Rotala is still so green if you have so much light and CO2....
The Ammannia is a weird one. It really looks like the emersed Ammannia 'golden' when compared to the photos in the Dennerle website... but it has been in your tank for months so why hasn't it converted to submersed form? Maybe its something else entirely?

Anyway, Rotala Wallichii will be a very interesting experience to grow. It can grow easily with no CO2 so it is actually an easy plant... but it has this very odd behaviour - it can stunt within 24 hours if your parameters are unstable, doesn't matter if you have high light, high CO2 and EI dosing... it will stunt. So this is a plant that forces you to keep your tank stable and not be constantly changing things. :cool:
 

eminor

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Yes, wonder why your Rotala is still so green if you have so much light and CO2....
The Ammannia is a weird one. It really looks like the emersed Ammannia 'golden' when compared to the photos in the Dennerle website... but it has been in your tank for months so why hasn't it converted to submersed form? Maybe its something else entirely?

Anyway, Rotala Wallichii will be a very interesting experience to grow. It can grow easily with no CO2 so it is actually an easy plant... but it has this very odd behaviour - it can stunt within 24 hours if your parameters are unstable, doesn't matter if you have high light, high CO2 and EI dosing... it will stunt. So this is a plant that forces you to keep your tank stable and not be constantly changing things. :cool:

well, this is ammania 100% certain, in my nephew tank it seems like gracilis, same shape, it's immersed form on the picture, you can see the emersed form on other pictures.

I think i'm gonna improve quicker with such difficulties, i hope
 

erwin123

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well, this is ammania 100% certain, in my nephew tank it seems like gracilis, same shape, it's immersed form on the picture, you can see the emersed form on other pictures.

I think i'm gonna improve quicker with such difficulties, i hope

rotala-n-ammannia-27-nov-jpg.jpg


ai0q9522-06-jan-22-processed-web-jpg.jpg


My Gracilis looks very different. Both are huge monster plants (left - Senegelansis, right - Gracilis)
Behind them there is one Proserpinaca and the Wallichii - I have managed to stunt them when adjusting my CO2....
 

eminor

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rotala-n-ammannia-27-nov-jpg.jpg


ai0q9522-06-jan-22-processed-web-jpg.jpg


My Gracilis looks very different. Both are huge monster plants (left - Senegelansis, right - Gracilis)
Behind them there is one Proserpinaca and the Wallichii - I have managed to stunt them when adjusting my CO2....
maybe i have the nesae golden ?
 
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