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Viktor, I'm razzing you a bit, hehe. I like Amano a lot, but I will and have........asked him tough reasonable questions. I think of you more like ADG here in the USA, I know Jeff and Andrew well and over a long time frame. My hard crust below the gravel line of perhaps a 1-2 inch long band...

That was not BGA, that was old crusty green algae, and hard species that forms below the glass from not cleaning it for months. There's no BGA to speak of except below the gravel line in the ADA next to the glass where is poses no issues and has never been an issue. BGA wipes out easily with...

Several people have made Twinstar DIY models from Stainless steel mesh. A research paper evaluates it, this is mostly for H2 production, but the by product is O2. http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/enve/logan/publications/2010-Zhang-etal-IJHE.pdf So an anode and cathod (SS mesh) and a wire coming...

Too many aquatic weeds= bad. Too few= also bad. Too much algae= bad, too little, also bad. The man made issues: way too much waste added to natural and man made systems with FAR fewer control points than an aquarium. You cannot control a lakes CO2 or O2 or light or temp routines without a...

NEVER assume your CO2 is good. Melosira is more likely the alga in question. Rhizoclonium is very green in color. Shrimp can get rid of it, if you fluff off the majority of it and do not feed the shrimp. More frequent water changes should help, particularly if the CO2 is at fault. So 2-3x a...

Water changes, new tank; 50-70% every 3rd day for 1-2 months. CO2 and CO2. Add algae eaters, shrimp, Otto cats etc,

KNO3 mostly, PO4 is somewhat independent. I think for mild/most cases, folks can siphon and fluff the stuff off. Then water change, then maybe a general H2O2 treatment, then dose the KNO3 and add more KNO3 from then on. I have BGA in my 120 Gallon Dutch tank, but it's below the gravel line...

If you add some bushy nose plecos, they will take care of things. Maybe 4-5 babies in a 100 liter tank should do the trick. 8 hours for the lights.

GHA is a tough one, none of the management methods are that good IME. Trim and remove can adjust the CO2 up. This can take 1-2 months and a lot of labor, 2-3x a week water changes etc, and it still might come back. Some fish will eat it, but also will gnaw on moss or other furry like things in...

They are also VERY hard to catch once they get big. They are effective on BBA, but..........they maul Rotala wallichii and perhaps a few other plants. I'd focus more on you good horticulture and CO2, trim and remove the BBA before it gets started. Then you do not need them and the plants do...

Shrimp will help, but clean and peroxide, EM but that's an issue in the UK, which is to say, a good thing in the overall scope of things.

That's a boat load of current. Havign been to where Rainbows are from, I would likely place all the flow on one end of the tank, hide the equipment with driftwood or rock, or some plants in the front field a view, this or a circular flow pattern would suit them very well. They like good high...

Credit cards work very well to remove any GSA, better use for the credit card also.

SF, yes, I suggested a similar method for GDA for folks, just leave it be for 3-4 weeks ......then clean it off, and it went away for quite a few folks, but others? They did not have such luck, I'm not sure if they simply got impatient etc. By allowing it to do it's full life cycle that pesters...

I agree with those comments Ady, but a large tank with little funding/care is never a good thing, best to have a smaller but well done tank IME. But ...I do understand. Been there and done it myself. I had a very good deal on 240 Gallon aquarium for peanuts, but.........then I needed to make a...

3 for 10 pounds: http://www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/php/detail51_326782.php Might get a better deal on 6 or more also. Just a tad more money than Amano shrimp.

Well, try 10 instead. They should breed for you, so then you make the money back, or just wait if you want. Once you breed them, there will be plenty. Larger bamboo cut into 1/2 work real well for breeding caves. The Ken's spirulina sticks work great for food/breeding.

Not anymore than loading up with Amano shrimp. As they grow, Bushy nose will breed and you can easily sell the larger adults, not like the common pleco. They also are among the cheapest plecos available also. I feed mine about 2x a week, but shrimp also go after the algae sticks. But shrimp...

Yes, I'd add about 20 total to your tank. Babies are better, say 5-cm long. Do not feed them much.

Many have struggled with Green Dust Algae for months etc. No real mechanism for inducement has been found. No real solution for control over the long term has really been found that's acceptable to many. The few times I was able to get it to grow, I came up with a leave it be approach for 3-5...

You might be fine with WC's maybe 1-2x a week if things are not going well, then back off later. I think dosing Excel/Easy Carbo might be the better long term solution(needs dosed daily). You might need a little bit of ferts also(eg once a week). Most feed fish daily, so dosing 5 mls per 40...

Excel etc will not Kill hair algae. API's algaefix will however. It will kill shrimp also, but seems safe for fish and every plant species I've ever tested.

That looks like and is typical for that planted discus tank: staghorn algae, Compsopogon. Excel/Easy Carbon will kill it pretty good. I'd like turn the filoters off and then pour the Easy Carb around the infected areas and leave the flow off for 5 min. H202 3% spot dosing the same way can be...

I do 2x a week water changes, this helps, and does not harm the plants FYI. Exposure to air super saturates the leaves and fills the air spaces in the stems so the plant has plenty after the water change. Light adjustment, CO2 adjustment and H2O2 seems to be the best cure of the long single...

EM is not prescribed much in the states for healthcare, but in the pet industry and the livestock industry, it is widely used. Thank our Big Pharm lobbyist :evil: The 3 day blackout in combination for any BGA killer + dosing KNO3 should be very very effective also. The 3 Day BO + KNO3 will...

No. Where large plant biomass exists, there is no correlation between between nutrients in the water and algae presence. That said, seasonally, there can be correlation in northern/far southern lakes/rivers etc, when the plants die off in the Fall, or prior to their seasonal new growth in the...

Question is, does it block PO4 uptake in plants also? Or just algae and if so, which species of algae?

We use 100% acetic acid to kill aquatic weeds(See Spencer and Ksander), I'm sure there is a similar dose response curve for algae vs plants for MANY chemicals. Realize the Acetic acid will "pickle" and is used as a tissue fixative, much like Glutaraldehyde. SA should work fine also with the...

So does vinegar, also an acid.

KNO3 dosing after will cure it. BO just gets rid of what's there, it does not address the underlying cause which is not growing the plants as well as you should/could. Another issue is that DIY CO2.......I'd use 2 smaller bottles and change one of them each week, that way you have a more...

I think a large issue is the status of the tank also, if the tank is full of fast growing stem plants..........and everything is healthy and in a stable state to begin with, then the tank is FAR FAR more resilient to stresses added. Much like a Rainforest. There are few weeds and invasive...

Re: As a Biologist, I know the run down there, we address this in Microbiology class and I make a big deal over infectious diseases every year. AIDS and waiting till we have a super cocktail so the damn thing does not gain resistance.........but save a few and extend lives a little bit today...

EM is safe for filters and fish, shrimp etc.

I agree with the statement above 110%. But in some serious cases, the EM works well. I really have no issues with this alga, but......I've tested this on several folks that have had GDA for months on end........nothing worked except this. So I tried it on a few other folks to be...

There have been a few methods suggested, but for the more longer term persistent GDA blooms, Erythromycin has shown to work and prevent re-occurrence in at least 10 long term aquarist 's tanks that had long bouts with Green Dust Algae. So far several have not had any re occurrences. We do not...

Looks like the tank will certainly need to readjust the CO2. This alga is rather tough to beat otherwise. I trim off all the plants that are infested or trim down to the nub. Then fix the CO2. Less light will help a long way with that. Excel/easy carb will not help much FYI...

If you allow the plants to carpet, or you can also vacuum up the top layer. Some push each grain by hand deep to bury it. I'd just vacuum it if I did not like the look.

Some folks have notice that their Mg was low and they where not adding it. After adding it, the correlation was the GDA went away in a couple of weeks. This is correlation, not cause. However, it does show that many factors that reduce plant health, even if seemingly mild, can have a...

CO2 and light does not effect what is already there, it only prevents reoccurrences. I attack it good and and it takes a few times but it is not as fruitless like when the CO2 was lower/light higher. Still, I can offer no other plausible explanation for the lack of inoculation and germination...

My tanks above are ALL 60cm + deep, then another 25-30cm the lights are above that! So about 1 meter away of so.........,if the lights are spread out, then there's no issue, if they are just all bunched together, they are less efficient. Good CO2 will allow you to use less light, while getting...

Sounds about right for HC, you do not need much, I used this much at 1 meter away from the plants total distance. 10-20 is a bit too low, I do not know of any plant that can live submersed at less than 12 micromols, Hydrilla is the low light winner. 25-30 is pretty low overall. Regards, Tom...

0.5w/L might be too high even, try .4 to .35 range. If the lights are T5's this should be plenty. You can screen the light also, add metal window screen and layer it to reduce the light also, the shade cloth idea. Regards, Tom Barr

If you look at his tank, it's really too much light and it's not that nice looking. Also, it's rather test, dowse and wait and see, takes a lot of time and runs around the real issue. Trade one algae for the other and does not result in it never coming back again. I have spent a lot more time...

Good flow helps with mixing, but also with good O2 for the fish. Since respiration is both CO2 and O2 exchange, fish are better off with good flow, so are plants. While we can use more and more CO2 at higher light PAR, lower PAR gives us much more wiggle room. If you subscribe to "less is...

Well, plenty of forums have folks killing fish all the time without any plants, fert dosing or CO2. Plant folks rarely do replacement test to see which factor added to planted tanks cause the observations/killing fish or sick etc. All I need to do is show a few cases where I add those ferts...

FYI, there are no toxicity levels for PO4 for the EPA on critters. This is more likely a salinity issue which means you need far beyond 100ppm, same for K+. I'd even say this is true for most species of warm water fish and N03. Fry are different matter, shrimp are hyper sensitive compared to...

Yes, simply focus on good plant growth does the trick in most algae cases. BO, EM tablets etc, can be done also. Regards, Tom Barr

Well, if you think about certain nutrients in the holistic plant biochemistry.........then these biochemical pathways are bit like the highway/tube system. 1. If the enzymes are messed up, or need to be rebuilt, more added suddenly, then you have construction and delays like the highways...

Do like we did 15 years ago with PMDD, add MgSO4 to the trace liquid or directly to CMS. Then you are covered. I add a little to my traces for good measure. Some PPS loonies claimed excess Mg stunted tips in certain plants above at 10ppm, well my tap had 52ppm so I knew that could not be...

Much more likely due to Mg limitation. Such rapid responses are rare for K+ and Ca++. Also, the D1 protein that splits water and starts feeding the electrons into PS1 and PSII, you know, the enzyme that actually gives off O2 as a waste product??? If you add a lot more Mg, suddenly......you...

I add about 15ppm or so 2-3x a week. Regards, Tom Barr

Dave it's mostly likely due to low Mg, not the Ca++. You can try dosing MgSO4 alone and see, might take a couple or 3 weeks before the tank gets limited again. Mg is the central atom in Chl a etc.......it's got a lot of roles. Ca.........I think plants are very good at getting...

Tough lesson, so make sure others realize not to get into the mind set that says, more is better when it comes to Excel, or CO2, and indirectly, light. Folks just do not give this stuff respect till they kill their fish and toast plants. Fix the root issue with algae, do not add more and more...

This is easy :mrgreen: No light= no algae. Simply turn the light on when you want to see the fish. No more. Algae are light limited, saves $$$ in electric. Much easier, cheaper than any other alternative. Makes the tank look more natural and nice though IMO. Floating water sprite would be...

Simple, your goal is to grow healthy plants, so focus there, give them what they need and the rest is a non issue for the most part. If you do not focus on that goal, no algae management method will work because it just coming back and a new species that's harder to kill often replaces it...

I'd suggest rethinking the CO2 issue. That + consider reducing the light intensity. You are not going to get very far otherwise. Regards, Tom Barr

You can see another tank of mine: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=10424 No snake oils needed here. I took my time with CO2, and slowly adjusted it up and reduced the light. Took maybe 3 months, but the tank is very easy to care for. Looks much better in person, fish display and shrimps are fun to watch...

I measured the ADA AS, it declines mostly in N, NH4 specifically. So adding KNO3 later to adjust, or provide non limiting NO3 all along takes care of any issues there. Point of fact, the HC is growing great in my 180, it can only get water column ferts since it's up on the wood.. It's not picky...

Get in there and cut it out, then allow the HC to grow back, no pansy about it, get it done. the min growth the last few months are due to CO2 or nutrients. Nutrients: easy to rule out, water change + dosing thereafter. CO2: carefully and methodically adjust up and wait and see. This might take...

The Aquatic Plant Digest and theKrib has a decade's worth of algae killing chemical nonsense on it in English. H2O2 has a long history for spot treating. Excel, easy carbo can be used the same way. If you have non living materials, an extra large water change + toothbrushing or squirting the...

The only practical applied evidence is EM treatment for Oscillotoria, aka BGA. They use neomycin for Red BGA in marine tanks. Otherwise, there's little use. This is not a herbicide/algicide mentality here, it's about providing good conditions for macro algae and/or higher plants, then they...

CO2 and/or more PO4. I add 2-3ppm 3x a week for PO4. No one can overdose PO4. You can underdose however. For CO2, be careful and slowly and methodically adjust it step wise. Regards, Tom Barr

A simple solution to many issues with CO2 management is simply using less light intensity. So that can do a similar thing, SAE's are fine, but they get lazy and fat and mean as they get bigger and older. Regards, Tom Barr

So let's get the goal straight here: No CO2 So this means you need to allow the plants to adapt to low stable CO2 levels and pack the tank full of plants. So no large water changes at all, if any. The most successful non CO2 planted tanks do best without any water changes, they just add water...

Please note most planted aquarists have experience all the algae at some point, and many have little control in the beginning. Your attitude will be tempered later, and hopefully you will see that good consistent care, good management of light and CO2 are the more critical issues. Then you go...

BTW, if you read the lower part of the practical page on the krib, you'll see the same infinite series used to justify EI dosing and water changes with Fe dosing. Most, if not all the aspects of EI are not my own, they are taken from others who deserve much more credit than I. I freely give the...

I think the post have shown a really good evolution on how we think about and offer help and advice to folks. We have to be more careful in suggesting and saying more than we know and what the new person asking is really after. They will decide on their own no matter how much experts bicker. I...

Well even within the EI camp, there are misconceptions, myths etc, assumptions. This is true for sediment enrichments as well. Or leaner is "better" etc. EI is a concept and it can and is modified by many to suit. It was a response to giving advice to rule out a limiting factor for nutrients...

The total amount of nutrients is still high and sediments are not particularly old either. We also do not really know what the light PAR is or is not. ADA lighting appeared to be rather high, I'd assumed equal on many fronts, till I actually went and measured it. Careful,about your assumptions...

Yea, ya big bully:) haha (you'd better laugh dammit!) I think it comes off that way to some, if they feel this way, say so. Darrel did and then clarify from there. I come off that way sometimes, I try to avoid it, but if anyone is in any doubt, ask me. Still, even though I strongly and...

Hummm, but it's one method and each has a trade off there. You can use several things to limit and manage growth rates. That's what each specific method essentially boils down to, not what is best for plant growth :idea: So what are those trade offs? Is limiting nutrients easier than say...

Nope, but it's a good thing to think about. Gotta look :mrgreen: Well, overloading any system will kill off most natural states of diversity. So things like wastewater.spetic systems, hillbillies dumping their bed pans out in the back yard........ It's the rate of dosing that's the issue, not...

We also have to be very careful about which system and which location we are talking about when applying the research to. This gets a lot of folks into trouble. Northern lake studies are not the same as Florida lakes for example. But even in Denmark, we see similar observations if we look...

I also think the basic questions and hypothesis laid out by Paul and Kevin where well founded and a good approach was done, however, they needed to test several of their hypothesis against a known reference, which they did not have enough control to do at the time. I did so that answered those...

In the Glades, the natural species is the Caldium grass, the added PO4 is changing things to a more Typha dominated system. Cattail can out compete Cladium easily when things are PO4 rich. when it's lean on PO4, then the Cladium does better. More Cattail is bad news for this natural system...

BTW, since you teach, I think the phytometer is an excellent tool and something even middle school kids can do at some level, to college grad level. Wetland plants can be used and grown in various sediments, salinities (marine salt or ethylene glycol etc for water potential), emergently so...

Marl= calcium and magnesium carbonates, they are declaifying the water to get DIC(or Carbon/CO2/ using HCO3 as a source). Common in hardwater plants. Then the plant is really CO2 limited, and must use Bicarb as a DIC source. Vals, Egeria, Hydrilla etc are good at this, most of the 400 species...

Another rare(ha!) plant by many folk's standards: Search Bonita Springs, Mato Grosso, Ichetucknee Springs Florida Rainbow river Florida Pupu springs NZ etc All have high CO2, loads of fish, good stable nutrients(never limiting), moderate to high light depending. Ichetucknee Springs comes...

Here's some nice examples of natural systems with high CO2 and nutrients(loads of fish in them also): Florida where I take folks each year to see: Marine: This weed is considered rare and difficult by many outside the USA:

Darrel, I think coming at this from an ecologist perspective plays a large role into your view. It's understandable also. :thumbup: Still, this is not the same goal, management etc as a natural system. Many natural systems have high CO2 in them. They also have high nutrients etc as well...

I've seen some of the top ADA tanks turn sour. So it's part of staying on top of things, we all wane and eb in our efforts. It's like getting ready to run a marathon. Takes time and there are bumps in the road and injuries along the way, if we slack off, we often do not reach our goal. We like...

Well, my issue has long been getting at that light<=>CO2 balancing/time factor. This is still more a plant growth issue. For algae, it's a germination issue, what causes them to be dormant vs bloom? Plants do not go dormant, nor have his same life history in our aquariums, they are merely a...

Clean the tank, pick if off equipment/rocks etc when you do a water change, if you can expose any sites of BBA to air, use peroxide or Excel and dab some on there. Or when there's no water movement, you can spot treat below. Add a small cup to collect the BBA gravel and add it to that using...

I think I know that guy that wrote it, Malta is not a big place, but they are fairly tight knit group and know the basics pretty good. Seems reasonable to me. Not sure why someone would put lots of light on a non planted tank though:) I use to and had very high aerated flow across rocks for...

Anytime I mess up the CO2= algae. I adjusted it and also inoculated some Spirogyra. Bloomed nicely. Plants also grew well. I have a nice fully planted tank and have been doing the same routine dosing wise./light etc, the plants are doign even better and more biomass. So I decided to inoculate...

Tank is only 6 weeks or so old, still tweaking the CO2 and getting things stable. A little algae issue is common. More water changes(cannot over do those), good ferts and good CO2. More of the same, try 2-3x a week water changes, particularly in the morning after lights come on. Easy...

In other words, look at both sides of the coin, test your own hypothesis and see if it holds true with a reference planted aquarium. If you are willing to do that, then you really cannot test much of anything and verify it. All you can say is that there appears to be a relationship, without...

ceg4048, I still have a serious issue with the Ca balance PO4 baloney. This is not about EI vs this method or any method, this is about the basics of plant growth. This is not "new", the principles applied to terrestrial and aquatics have not changed. Nor have test or protocols to assess...

You will also note, a global view of algae and plant growth gives you far more tools to manage algae. I also try some rather simple concepts when dealing with algae issues. GDA: 1. Ecology life history view, allowing it to complete it's life history as a zoospore before trying to control it...

Folks, Chrubilar is trying to help and the method may help a person get rid of the GDA for some, others might be able to use less light, others might be able to use better CO2 management. Nutrient management can offer some respite, but we should realize that manipulative dosing will affect...

Imbalanced with respect to plants, or algae? Algae appears for 2 reasons near as I can tell, an inducement, say poor plant growth(limited CO2/carbon balance), maybe NH4 spike etc, too much light and imbalanced there with the general growth model of aquatic plants. Or introduction(say Cladophora...

They have 1 small species here, but the species we have of algae can handle much more. http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/pubs/fulltext ... 050003.pdf Most fish etc, inverts generally will be more sensitive, are about 5-10ppm, so 2ppm is the decent target. 2ppm drops rapidly however if dosed just 1x a...

I do not think anyone has found any nutrient correlations with GDA, more CO2, and general vigor. Obviously there are some indirect effects on nutrients on CO2............ So some claim the nutrients are everything, while others have a wide range of nutrients and no reoccurances etc. I let the...

BTW, I have been dosing two tanks at 2:1 NO3 to PO4 ratio for the last 6 months. Great results. 2:1, yep........... 1 teaspoon of KNO3 = 1/2 teaspoon of KH2PO4. Why not? See what happens. Nothing, plants are growing like mad, healthy Tonia, L pantanal etc. So I decided to monkey with it...

The PMDD is a Fe preciptation event from hard water, bad chelator for the Kh of the tap etc............... This can build up plaques on surfaces. We see this in wetland soils. when this becomes covered, it reduces the surface area of the media and that can cause issues, also, when it sloughes...

Simply cleaning the filters and improved flow can help in 2 different respects(CO2 and waste/Urea, NH4, as well as O2 demand by bacteria vs fish use). Dusko tries and upodates the blog as new issues come and new issues are resolved. He will never have the perfect solution, no one ever will...

One thing to be very careful about, even if you think you are "hot to trot", an expert, or any other thing that makes you believe everything you think..........is the old CO2 issue. There are a few ways to address it. Rule out everything else first, nutrient seem okay to me, even if lean or...

Adding to what Clark mentions.........healthy plants, fish etc..........something right. So so lack luster plant growth, something not quite right...so look, water changes, adjust CO2 etc...........algae, something definitiely not right. Plants and algae are very useful "test kits". They are...

Not sure where it's at, my Dad mentioned it. I suppose I should come back and look. Been 26 years since I've been there. Nice place. Regards, Tom Barr

Good, glad common sense got to you before "they" did :twisted: Bit of an uphill battle, it's easier to just accept a myth and speculate than do any real logic or test, and I'm not in it for $, fame(ain't none to be had) or sales(Not a company or brand name). So the main thing, the market, is...