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Fixed, it should work now. All the best, Fab.

Rotalabutterfly.com is having some server issues right now. We are looking into it... I'll report asap! All the best, Fab.

Yes, correct ;) Great! And sorry if I am late here!

Thank you for clarifying what you meant, I agree with you 100%. It is important to understand the difference between having organics being the primary cause, and having organics being the secondary cause. As you explained very well above. Thank you again.

Sorry to contradict you, but as I wrote earlier, for me BBA appears only when I have nutrient issues. Nothing about organics for me. I am saying this for those folks that, like myself, tried everything either Co2 side or organics side with no luck for years, to find out that BBA on their Anubias...

Traces = micros. Any. In other words, for me BBA appears only when my plants are unhappy due to some missing nutrient or unbalance.

That depends... If the main cause of BBA in your tank is neglect, organics or other "dirt" related issue, that might.... But if it is an imbalance of nutrients preventing your plants to grow well, it will reappear. I could make appear and disappear BBA several times back and forth by just...

Sounds good, please, keep us posted.

You are most than welcome, that tank looked great. Thank you for the info. I am sure the substrate gave enough traces for your plants to grow, clay must have plenty of those. Good job indeed. Any plans for a new tank?

Wow, what is amazing Soilwork! What kind of soil do you use? And how much macros are you currently dosing? Weekly water change or less?

This is a very interesting and different approach. I will try what you have suggested with the hope to get rid of the last strand of BBA I have in my tanks. Thank you!

I am sorry, but where is your solution to get rid of BBA?

Nice plant indeed... It looks like Microswords, but leaves are wider....

Thanks Andy for supporting the idea that both toxicities and deficiencies may lead to enzymes inhibition. I think that is a key point of our discussion here. As I already said, my contribution to this thread as well as on other forums is not scientifically proven, and I have no scientific data...

Ok, whatever... I explained on my posting mentioned above that there is not any scientific data and my results are just from testing and observing. But of course what your are bringing out here is NOT the point of my intent nor the point of this thread. The point here is to find a way to combat...

Hey guys, I wanted to give you an update about my BBA and traces toxicity experiments, after 3 months of experiments I have posted my results and conclusions on this thread below...

You are welcome! Great to know that. Do you dose EI or anything else?

Hmm... ok, so, if we assume that, you should be ok. If I were you, I'd make the following experiment: 1. Try to reduce 1/2 of your micro dosing for the next couple of week and see if the situation improves or get worse. 2. If the situation improves, keep the new schedule until your plants are...

Well, it is not clear how much micros are you actually putting in your tank. We'd need a proxy element in ppm such as Fe. For example, do you know how many ppm of Fe you are dosing with 40ml of that stuff?

1tsp of what? CSM+B? Please, let me know...

Micro dosing could easily become toxic to fish and plants if you dose more than necessary. How much micros have you added?

Thank you for the info! Wow, KH 11-12 is pretty hard water! Amazing growth you had. I don't know that substrate, but it looks kinda of an "inert" substrate. Is that right? It is also compelling your PH drops just 0.6-0.7. Great job of efficiency with stunning results!

Alex, I have read through your entire journal and enjoyed your stunning pictures and videos, and I have 3 questions for you: 1. What's your used substrate? 2. Is your water KH 8 dKH? 3. Do you know what's your PH drop with your Co2 injection? Thanks and keep the great work!

Wow, I feel guilty already! If that's what you consider "overstocking" and you perform daily water changes, I deserve to be put in jail right away! Here is my setup: 75 gl tank Wet/dry oversized filter (around 15 gl size) Eheim compact 2000 (not too strong flow) EI dosing with weekly water...

I will be happy to participate, I just need to gather all my tank data. Just a couple of points: 1. I'd suggest adding to the data fertilization regime, water change regime, light and Co2 level. 2. When do you consider a tank "oversized"? Thanks.

Sounds good! Please, keep us posted.

Good question, thank you! Well, BBA almost disappeared on my Anubias when I started detoxing CSM+B: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/853001-csm-b-toxicity-experiment.html Whereas it actually increased on some wood and some substrate gravel. Someone suggested...

That's hilarious Andy! And of course, I think you are right, the correlations you put together make sense. Truth is: I still have some BBA in my tank, but what I see is a gradual die off in a natural way. I need to wait a few more weeks to see if actually it is going to disappear completely, but...

Guys, I wanted to share with you this thread I just opened on TPT that could explain why many of us get BBA and could suggest a simple way to either combat it or prevent it besides the "traditional" method of just increasing Co2, water flow, low organic load, etc...

Well, after weeks of experiments, my conclusion is that, in my case, the problem of BBA was micro nutrient toxicity as discussed on this thread: CSM+B Toxicity Experiment http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=853001 After 2 weeks of no CSM dosing, BBA is slowing disappearing. If...

Ok, sounds good. I just got one of those cheap (but seem accurate) Hanna Fe colorimeters, so I will measure actual Fe concentrations and let you know. Thanks!

Guest, does that mean you dose 0.1ppm each dose, x3 times a week which gives you a total of 0.3ppm? Also, important: do you know your max level of Fe in your water in ppm? I mean, whats your max accumulation with your current dosing?

Ok guys, I wanna try to do this: tomorrow big water change, adding carbon and Purigen to filter, then lower Co2 injection to more "human" levels (1.2 max drop) and try to stop dosing for a few days by monitoring all levels (No3, Po4 and Fe) and see what's gonna happen. I have been amazed by...

Guest, I am beginning to think about a possible toxicity in my tank. I have just measured my Fe and it is almost at 3ppm (2.94ppm). I dose CSM plus DTPA, but I also have high KH (7) and GH (15-18) which should mitigate any possible toxicity of CSM. I am following this thread as well: CSM+B...

I will definitively try both Purigen and carbon. I will keep you posted ;)

Thank you for the table, very informative. I think I will try with Purigen.

Is activated carbon doing the same? I mean, taking just organic compounds? What about traces? Just asking, because I am thinking to add Purigen and/or carbon to see if it is actually making any difference to my tank which is still infested of BBA after several weeks of cleaning and adding...

You brought up a very interesting question about Envy... It includes vitamin B12, among others as you said. I am wondering: how can plants use that stuff?? Never heard of plants feeding on vitamins or other similar compounds... Unless that solution is going to feed specific bacteria or something...

Yes, I read that several times, and it's true our tanks need to have low organically. Especially old tanks like mine, over 5 years old... If we can actually use either carbon or Purigen to help reducing DOC (without affecting nutrients for plants though), that would be worth trying.

Yes, please, let me know. I have never used carbon nor Purigen for longer than a few days, in rare circumstances, because I am afraid they can remove nutrients (traces) for plants, but maybe I have been mistaken on that... Do you think carbon or Purigen can be used on a regular basis without...

Plants are completely "open" at around 8am, and some of them really bend toward the near window, even though it is just indirect light. My tank is ok, but not perfect. I still have some BBA around, and I 'd like to have pristine conditions. Maybe I should try to have more Co2 earlier in the day?

Has anyone tried to combat BBA with activated carbon or Purigen? Any results?

Is that really true? For example, my lights turn on at 2pm, and my Co2 starts at 10am, but I have some ambient light around the tank between 7am and 10am... So, should I have my Co2 turn on at 6-7am??

I am amazed how well your Rotalas grow with such a low light. Great job indeed.

Se

Wonderful job indeed. Do you know what's your PAR in that tank?

I agree Manuel, that why I wrote "possible causes" ;)

This statement also is deceiving... as I said earlier, algal spores are going to be in your tank anyway, no matter if you quarantine or not fish, plants, rocks, whatever. Is like if you think to avoid introducing bacteria in your tank: you are going to have them anyway! You say then: Co2 is not...

I have some doubts on these to "prevent" BBA or any other type of algae. Algae spores are going to be in your tank anyway. We all know about people putting plants "covered" of BBA into their tanks, and after a few days or weeks getting clean, just because the environment wasn't right for BBA...

Ok, got it. I have mostly increased potassium, and a little bit more of traces. I am currently watching my plants and BBA situation. I will give an update soon. Thank you again.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. So, why do you think increasing traces can benefit Anubias, for example, in combating BBA?

What did you do then? I assume that if a "lack of traces" is contributing to BBA, that means that they are well below toxic levels. Otherwise they are overruled.

Ok, let's see if increasing K and traces will make any difference for me in the coming days. I will keep you posted guys.

Andy, this really might be the key! And could also explain why Co2 injected tanks are more prone to get BBA, where H+ ions are more present. Am I right?

I will, definitively. If we can actually find a practical solution to at least control BBA, would be great!

As I wrote earlier, I get BBA on Anubia leaves no matter if they are under light or in complete shadow. I don't see light that much of a factor for me, unless I have such low K levels that affect leaves under very-low-light as well (!!) but I doubt that since I am dosing with the EI. But I can...

Wow, that's great to know. I wanna try to increase K and traces and see what happens in both my tanks. When you say "gradually disappears" does that mean even on old leaves where it was present for a long time?

That's very interesting... Guest, does that mean that if you add more K and traces BBA goes away or get reduced? I also have seen BBA reduced if I dose more traces in my Co2 tank.

This is very interesting guys... I think the main elements involved in "BBA production" are: organic matter, oxygen. In my experience, I don't think light is a factor for BBA. I have BBA on many of my Anubias leaves, no matter if they are under strong light or completely in the dark. I do notice...

Bruce, watch this again: Also, I have seen ponds with crystal clear water, no algae, and any sort of plants inside (not only water lilies, but Ceratophillum, Elodea and other submersed plants) under full sun. Of course I have also seen a lot of ponds with bad algae inside... but as...

Andy, I am afraid you missed the last part of my posting there: "Of course Co2 must be proportionally high". What Guest posted above really makes me think something more specific, here is what Guest posted: Well... what about having too much Co2 compared with the amount of light? Can "too...

Thank you for confirming Guest. All this discussion on Co2 concentration, light and plants potentially suffering because of low light, makes me think that having stronger light is probably better than too low light for preventing BBA. Of course Co2 must be proportionally high. Thoughts?

All this makes sense, thank you Guest. Is 8ppm the absolute/typical O2 concentration of equilibrium?

Exactly what I was saying, I agree with you. Did you happen to notice more dead matter around because of reduced Co2?

Ok, what about agitating surface to increase O2 for fish that otherwise would suffer? I mean, how do you know if surface agitation is increasing O2 or it is decreasing it?

Andy, were you meaning that oxygen produced by photosynthesis is greater than oxygen produced by surface agitation? Also, I was thinking: if more Co2 increases O2 production, increased Light must also increase O2 production... Which makes me think the opposite is also true: if Co2 decreases...

Guest, what do you mean exactly? Isn't aeration increasing O2 anyway?

Thank you Bruce. Trying my best!

My tank doesn't actually get any direct Sunlight.

Thank you Andy. Appreciated!

I may likely have a bacterial problem simply because of this: my tank is 6 years old, I find myself often to uproot plants and just messing up with the substrate which causes high amount of organics to be released in the water column, hence possible ammonia and B12 spikes. It is pretty typical...

Yes, canister filters may really clog easily. Wet drys can clog too in the prefilter section, that's why I clean my pre filter every 2 weeks before water change. ADA is right, mostly if you have a canister filter. Wet drys add a lot of oxygen by itself already.

I have a wet/dry filter. I clean the pre-filter regularly, but I don't touch much the bio filter. Am I doing it right?

Yes, I Do. I have fast growers like Hygros, Ambulias and Miriophillum. Hygros are real weeds. All fast growers are doing excellently.

Bruce, I have plenty of Po4 in my water, and my Anubias sometimes suffer of BBA no matter if they are under light or not. Actually the worse affected leaves are the ones more in shadow! I guess, at least in my case, I need to look at the amount of Co2 I inject (a lot, maybe too much?), oxygen...

I wish I could edit what I posted above, it looks like with Tapatalk I can't. After reading this very interesting article suggested by Andy above: http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html I have found listed, at the end, the name of some commercial products with nitrifying (autotrophic)...

This might be a good idea... Even though my water is a already pretty hard (GH 13, KH 7). Thanks for the tip! Yes, of course my idea of using ammonia reducers would be just a temporary solution or, better, a preventive help "whenever needed". For example, whenever we mess with the substrate...

Thank you Andy for creating this thread, I have read it with extreme attention, and your theory fits perfectly my own experience. My tank suffers of BBA, pretty much constantly. It is the only algae that once In a while gives me real trouble. It gets stronger when I mess with substrate too...

Very interesting! Do you mean that you increased micros by adding media to the filter such as clay pebbles? Do they help that way? Please, tell us more!

Ouch! So sorry about that! Glad to know BBA was completely gone though! Are you going to start a new tank?

Congrats! This is very similar to my own experience. The increase of micros was definitively one of the factors helping BBA to disappear for me as well.

Jose, I am not sure to have already written this, but I tried several times to raise Co2 to combat BBA, without success. I tried to pump it up to 140ml per minute (insane, isn't it?!?!), but I saw no benefits! And some of my plants were anyway struggling (Alternathera first). That's why I...

You are welcome. Unfortunately there isn't a sure way to measure the relationship of amount of Co2 used and amount of Co2, that may vary too much due to degassing, kind of filter, etc. for example, in my case, I have a wet/dry filter and surface agitation, therefore I need probably more Co2 of a...

Well, looks like I made the same kind of mistake. Despite I had no GSA, probably I didn't have enough anyway! Great! Sure, I use 4 T8 lights (around 50 PAR at the substrate), but they don't turn on all at the same time. 3 lights run for 7 hours, whereas the 4th light, on the front, turns on...

Thanks! Of course, I can post my dosing regime here since I think it could help other folks to understand what could have actually triggered BBA... At least in my tank. Which I think was both lack of Co2 and micro nutrients. Before I changed my regime a month ago, I was dosing a pretty light...

May 31, BBA UPDATE: gone. Yes, BBA is gone! Here is what I have done to make it disappear from my tank for the past month: 1. Got back to regular EI schedule by daily alternating macros with micros. Dosing 1/3 less than the recommended EI, just because I perform water change every 2 weeks. 2...

May 31, BBA UPDATE: gone. Yes, BBA is gone! Here is what I have done to make it disappear from my tank for the past month: 1. Got back to regular EI schedule by daily alternating macros with micros. Dosing 1/3 less than the recommended EI, just because I perform water change every 2 weeks. 2...

I have been able to remove completely BBA from my tank. Here is what I have done to make it disappear from my tank for the past month: 1. Got back to regular EI schedule by daily alternating macros with micros. Dosing 1/3 less than the recommended EI, just because I perform water change every 2...

Yes, That's usually what I do, but BBA keeps coming back. Now, I am trying to keep Co2 a little bit higher, and keep up with more WC for a while. And of course, a better fertilization regime. I will keep you posted. Thanks!

Thank you Jose. I'll try what you suggest and see what happens. Appreciated your help!

I do have both Amano and Red Cherries, a lot of them... But they don't seem to care about BBA. Too bad... My tank is mostly healthy, I give away a bucket of trimmings every 2 weeks, but this damn BBA is just annoying. Thanks!

Do you think that's lack of Co2 at the bottom? I see bubbles running everywhere, bottom included... And, again, I pump 70ml of Co2 per minute, which is, I think, a lot. I have also tried to rise it up to 100ml per minute, but didn't make any difference. PH drop was over 1.8. Crazy high!

For sure I have high organics in this tank, even just because it is over 5 years old and I have played a lot with it. With Co2, why should not trust the Ph meter? I calibrate it regularly, and replaced it a few months ago. I regularly spot dose with peroxide and/or excel, but those are just...

Yes, hard to understand, but as I said before, Co2 injection has been pretty stable for the past year, not particular changes. And of course, if Co2 is off (if PH is higher than 6.4), lights turns off or stay off. That's programmed into my Apex :) I know, everything looks good, that's why this...

Yes Jose, BBA is growing right now. I found new growth of it every day, and I prune my plants every day cutting and tossing affected leaves. About my tank height: 21 inches if the tank size, the substrate at the bottom is about 4-5 inches thick, and the water surface is about 2 inches from the...

Thanks, very clear.

Wow, would be amazing if the only cause could be the "too old tank syndrome"... Actually would be less the time to remake the tank from zero than to keep maintaining it by spot-treating, etc!! I have to think about this a little... Any more thoughts about Co2? Does my curve look ok to you from...

How could that happen?

Yes, indeed! Just leaves that are 7-10 days old get affected. I really don't like it, and it has been this way since last October! I don't know what to do else...

Thanks. I have tried to reduce light down to 5 hours, but no difference... Sigh...