Search results for query: duckweed index

I think i am going to insert in the tank some limnobium :) As far as FE, i can purchase easily Seachem Iron or Easy Life Ferro What do you think? Maybe Easy life is more tailored regarding my pH 7? Thanks Cris

Hi all, Generally iron availability is much less of an issue in water with lower alkalinity. Because iron (Fe) is a bit of a <"two edged sword">, you could easily tip into iron toxicity in acidic, reducing conditions . Yes, a floating plant will take up all nutrients and act as a nutrient...

...instant <"greening / growth response">. But the non-mobile nutrients <"are more problematic"> and I've started using a <"hybrid Duckweed Index"> approach, where I add iron (Fe) on a regular (but <"fairly ad hoc.">) basis. The advantage of this is that it allows me to always use the growth...

...pretty healthy. Have a look at @jameson_uk (with <"traditional apologies">) two Amazon Frogbit threads <"Frogbit taken a turn"> & <"Duckweed Index says Nitrogen please?">. I use Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) as my <"nutrient "canary">, but this <"maybe of interest">. I probably...

Anything special about frogbit/duckweed ? I have a heavily planted shrimp grow out tank with no substrate and just RO water (with some GH booster only) which shows deficiencies in the submerged plants while the floaters are thriving. It almost makes me think floaters are feeding off dying...

Hi all, I think failed to add my ad hoc. hybrid <"Duckweed Index"> dosing, and by the time I'd noticed the Amazon Frogbit was already struggling (this is the sequence <"Frogbit taken a turn">). I added some ferts. but the Frogbit is only just recovering. It effected the Pistia less, but...

Hi all, I've just found <"an old thread"> (from 2017) which suggests I may have been sublimely thinking about <"monetising the Duckweed Index"> for a lot longer than I had realised. From 2017 Now how to get the genie back in the bottle? Possibly <"Secret Ingredient Soup">? cheers Darrel

...a <"mix designed for hydroponics">, with a small additional dose of <"magnesium (Mg) and iron (Fe)">. You can either use <"some fraction of EI dosing"> or you can use plant health (ideally of a floating plant) to assess nutrient status. I use the latter, via the <"Duckweed Index">. cheers...

Hi all, I'm pretty sure I have, but I can't remember the context (and I can't find it anywhere). edit: Got it it was this one <"Micronutrient toxicity.. or deficiency.. ? Pls help."> . and this was what happened. I was wondering about nitrogen (N), and then @Happi chipped in, which has...

Hi all, That was one of the main reasons for using a floating plant in the <"Duckweed Index">. A floating plant always had access to <"atmospheric CO2">, and that takes <"CO2 deficiency out of the equation">. Clive (@ceg4048 ) is convinced that most deficiency symptoms relate to <"lack of...

...Index" was that you could use spoons as your measuring device and that it did a way with the need for water testing. The <"Duckweed Index" had the same rationale"> , you don't need to accurately measure weights or volumes and the plants act as your "test kit" That is why I would use <"the...

...and I don't know where the "extra" nutrients came from (I'm a rainwater user). Same for me, give them a trim and then start adding a <"complete fertiliser">. In terms of <"how much to dose"> you could use <"some fraction of EI dosing"> (1/4?) or you could use the <"Duckweed Index">. cheers...

...of NO3 containing compounds">. It was partially the inherent difficulties in nitrate testing that led <"to the development"> of the <"Duckweed Index">. It might, possibly, be denitrification in the substrate, I think it is unlikely, but plausible <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton -...

...in a plant with red leaves. Potentially a mixture of Limnobium laevigatum and Phyllanthus fluitans might be the optimal mix for the <"Duckweed Index">? But I would need to keep Phyllanthus alive long enough to find out. I'm going to guess at higher nutrient levels Limnobium <"is always...

...to know, I might <"have another go with it">. Other people have actually suggested it as <"an alternative plant"> for an improved "Duckweed Index". You might be interested in my experience with <"Azolla">, where I had the brilliant idea of the students squashing the red plants to extract...

...I don't add a set amount of nutrients. I use the <"leaf colour"> and <"growth rate of a floating plant"> (not <"CO2 limited">) as my <"proxy for nutrient content">. I called it the <"Duckweed Index">, but my <"Duckweed"> of choice is now <"Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum)">. cheers...

...(NO3-) it would be 0.3g of Solufeed 2:1:4 in every 10 litres of tank water. I don't add a set amount of fertiliser, I use the <"Duckweed Index"> and <"occasional slosh method">, but I should <"really do better">. I might start with 20 ppm and <"see how you get on">. I just use a <"splash...

Hi all, I'm going to say, Poor (or at least more impecunious than you could be) but happy and <"on the right side of history">.;) cheers Darrel

I'm strictly low tech using pre made AIO ferts and the duckweed index. Not sure what fertiliser camp that puts me in!

...finding">. Have a look at @jameson_uk (with <"traditional apologies">) two Amazon Frogbit threads <"Frogbit taken a turn"> & <"Duckweed Index says Nitrogen please?">. The only one I know of where new leaf chlorosis wasn't caused by lack of available iron was @Hufsa , where the cause <"was...

Hi all, I think you can definitely try a bit more. I'll add in @Zeus. If don't see any appreciable <"growth or greening">? The nitrogen is <"probably not your issue">. cheers Darrel

Thanks, Darrel. The Hydrocotyle is flying at the moment, but will keep an eye out. Thanks, @Happi. Will keep doing what I'm doing for now then. Like what out of interest? From a learning POV. The only thing I've noticed is the plant attached is growing leaves more lime green than the older...

Hi all, Yes, they look good, <"CO2 and / or more nutrients">. It isn't a plant I've grown, but I'm going to assume the "Sunset" name applies to the reddish colouring. No not really, they look fine. Just keep an eye on the leaves of the Hydrocotyle, if they become smaller and / or paler. If...

Hi all, I'm pleased it has worked for you. I'm (<"probably absurdly">) proud of it, and, my ego and I, are going to have a much <"happier afternoon now">. The only exception we've found to the "pale new leaves = iron deficiency" is in @Hufsa's case. Her plants turned out to be <"manganese...

Hi all, I've been thinking about this, mainly in light of a more complete understanding of the Maize (Zea mays) photo, and because "Amazon Frogbit" (Limnobium laevigatum) is <"also a monocotyledon">. I think that the mode of leaf formation in monocots is actually the reason for the...

Helferi is a good example as it kindly grows a nicely visible ‘set’ of new leaves, so I guess what I’m getting at is - We see differences in leaf sets but we don’t see half a leaf that is green right!, There is not a leaf that starts out deficient and then becomes non deficient so whatever we...

...be an issue with the test kit. The difficulties of <"accurately testing for nitrate"> (NO3-) were one of the drivers for the development of the <"Duckweed Index">, where you use the <"leaf colour and growth"> of a floating plant (non-CO2 limited) as a <"proxy for nutrient levels">. cheers Darrel

Hi all, Assuming that this really is iron (Fe) deficiency in Pogostemon helferi, and I think it probably is, then @Zeus. 's <"Future of Aquascaping"> image shows that it really is a very sharp divide between "available" and "non-available". Here is another one <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed...

It’s a fair point Darrel and I’ll run as long as I need to, to get valid results. I’m curious your thoughts on when is a new leaf not a new leaf? If a ‘young’ leaf is still developing, can you expect to see an improvement in that leaf ‘health’ in event that a non-mobile deficient nutrient...

...enough to see healthy new leaves grow. That was one of the reasons for originally using <"Lesser Duckweed (Lemna minor)"> in the <"Duckweed Index",> it has a very rapid turn-over of new leaves, meaning that it shows a very flexible response to increased nutrients and / or when a nutrient...

Interestingly, I do have one crypt 'cryptocoryne undulatus red' that is doing fairly well. I would doubt this, I actually have only (fairly) recently added the frogbit. The issues long pre-date the addition of them, and haven't gotten worse either. I only added them from wanting to try out...

...with CO2 and that is <"why I don't (and won't) use it">. I'll add @REDSTEVEO he is/was? a Discus keeper. That is why I like the <"Duckweed Index">, you get feedback on nutrient status from the plants. I've never kept Discus, but I've talked a bit with <"Larry Waybright"> and he is a...

Hi all, Welcome to UKAPS. A full tank shot of your aquarium would be very useful, as it will allow members to <"assess plant growth"> (and potentially <"plant health">). I see you live in Ilfracombe, <"would rain water be an option for you">? I use it and you should get a lot of very clean...

...use of the extra CO2 if none of the mineral nutrients are missing. That was one of the reasons for choosing a floating plant for the <"Duckweed Index">, they have the <"aerial advantage">, access to the atmospheric <"419 ppm CO2"> and this takes CO2 availability out of the equation. It might...

Hi all, That was one of the reasons for using a floating plant for the <"Duckweed Index">, because they don't have access to the substrate they show you the nutrient status of the water column. I think that is true <"Another microbial paper, this time looking at aquaponics and iron...

...but don't have a "target value" as such. You can use the plants to deplete the nitrate (NO3-) in the tap water and then use the <"Duckweed Index"> as an indication of when to add more fertiliser. Any of the plant nutrients can be <"Liebig's limiting nutrient">, but as long as all <"fourteen...

...gives an indication of iron availability <"at the time of its formation">, and that is <"an indelible mark">. You can still use the <"Duckweed Index"> to diagnose <"iron deficiencies"> (what do they look like now? @tam ?), but ideally you want the plants <"not to be iron deficient">, because...

...it was just an easily obtainable hydroponics mix, that didn't include any ammonia (NH3/NH4+) I'm not an EI user (I use the <"Duckweed Index">), but I think that would be about right. You could buy all the <"micronutrients as separate salts"> (like @Happi and @X3NiTH have done), but most...

...it will help to explain my thought process so you can tell me if I'm on the wrong or right track so to speak)... So, I mainly use the duckweed index now but, did some selective testing today as I wanted to see how things were going on water change day as I'm balancing the tank still and...

...but subsequently the new leaves paled slightly. I didn't think too much more about it , but since then I've carried on with the <"hybrid Duckweed Index"> approach (that I used when I was using the Miracle-Gro) and the Frogbit plants look back to healthy again. * for @Hufsa cheers Darrel

Hi all, Yes, that is how it works, plants can shuffle mobile nutrients from older to newer leaves, and real deficiency symptoms only occur when the plant has really run out entirely. Yes and no, you can get a situation where a non-mobile nutrient is unavailable for a limited time period, <"and...

Hi Darrel, I'm wondering what "turned up to eleven plant" means !??! I'm sure it's pretty simple to understand but I'm lost with the translation and the links didn't help (obvious I don't speak english very well). May you please explain in few words ?

...remade too, I spread it out over two days which made it more managable :) I was on the fence about what to do for a long time, but the duckweed index has once again helped guide the way. For those who said it was a CO2 issue, suck my take a look at these pictures :lol: As you can see...

...I've grown unfortunately, but I can see from the images it naturally has pale new leaves. Just keep an eye on them, if they look very pale (rather than just pale pink) or get noticeably paler then it maybe an iron (Fe) issue. Have a look at <"Duckweed Index says Nitrogen please?">. cheers...

...in growth form that Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) can exhibit. That is one of the real advantages of L. laevigatum for the <"Duckweed Index">, it has the potential to get very large, very quickly, but isn't a <"turned up to eleven"> plant like Eichornia crassipes (or, to some...

Yes, I definitely see the value in inferential techniques(had to look up the definition lol). The more I learn from you and others, the more I see the reason you chose your methods. Also, the more I adopt them myself. Darn it, I thought those College level Chemistry & Biology courses would be...

...not too bothered about diagnosing exactly what is missing, you have a lot of possibilities. That is one of the advantages of the "Duckweed Index", <"the plants can't lie">, if they are green and growing, they have everything they need. If they aren't? They don't. If you like <"they are your...

...testing(aside from Ammonia & Nitrite on these new tanks to keep the wildlife safe). I am really liking your suggested "plant reading" /Duckweed Index system much better and have been using it. I can't help but, long for numbers sometimes still though lol. It's just so hard for a technical guy...

Thank you Michael for that comprehensive response 😊 Interesting stuff, particularly regarding those longer gaps between micro doses………..would it work ok in a hard water tank I wonder or perhaps Fe may still be needed at greater frequency 🤔 but I won’t hijack the Ops thread any more so I’ll...

...if I am starting to get into trouble is by looking at the health of my plants - floating plants in particular (I am big fan of the duckweed index). If I see deficiencies I just crank up the dosing a bit - That has only happened a couple of times in half a year or so. Easy. So why am I doing...

I reckon the splosh camp is not at all a bad place to be. Full on duckweed index fan here and figuring out what works based on observation is ultimately the road to success. I think my high tech would kick my butt using this technique mind (you’d have to be real quick off ur feet with your...

...nutrients <"The scientific background to the "Leaf Colour Chart"">, it just removes <"most of the guesswork">. The idea behind the <"Duckweed Index"> was that you could use the <"growth and leaf colour of a floating plant"> as an indication of when to add nutrients. I've used it for ~20...

Thanks will take a look at them. Looks like CO2 may not be as high as once thought. Here are the readings so far in the day, 8:00 am pH 7.4 CO2 Turns on 9:00 am pH 6.85 10:00 am pH 6.68 10:30 am pH 6.61 Lights on

...is <"no longer limiting growth">, that will be green. That was one reason I originally used Lemna minor ("Duckweed") for the <"Duckweed Index"> (I now prefer <"Amazon Frogbit"> (Limnobium laevigatum)), it has a <"very quick turn-over of leaves">. You might be interested in <"MG/FE...

..."probably put me on to the Diana Walsted book, and the work of the Fertiliser chaps @Zeus. and company and as mentioned above the" Duckweed Index "was big learning curve. Always read how members try to get to the question why? as regards algae plant growth, lighting etc @jaypeecee and...

...If you are worried about the tank not being "cycled" just add <"some fast growing plants">. I'm a <"floating plant obsessive">, but any <"floated stem"> would do. It was partially the <"difficulties in nitrate testing"> (NO3-) that led to the development of the <"Duckweed Index">. cheers...

...of keeping aquatic plants: I always bow down to the experimenters Weekly nutrient consumption in planted aquarium and to the inventors (it's a search through the UKAPS, not direct link to the particular thread) Duckweed index PS: I'm sorry for the sand only substrate mafia but two means two.

...how much is in the soil ... but you can see the plants, so when they look hungry, dose more. This is the foundation of the @dw1305 duckweed index anyways. Let the plants have an abundance of EVERYTHING and let them decide what they want. Let them turn pretty colors. Let them change the...

Also forgot to mention that I have a venturi valve on the skimmer, so I wonder if the bubbles could be impacting the salvina growth?

Thanks Darrel! There are 4 nerites and around 7 amano shrimp in the tank but they can't compete with how quickly it spreads. I've considered ramshorn snails but am concerned about how quickly they'll breed given the amount of the stuff that keeps growing. Interesting you mention the salvinia...

...you have a floating plant (which I'm going to guess is Salvinia) and you can use a floating plant (not CO2 or light limited) as an indication of when to add nutrients (have a look for <"Duckweed Index">) & have a look at <"Brown fuzzy algae, unhealthy plants and dosing questions">. cheers Darrel

...successful <"long term tank maintenance">, but also that they <"weren't things you could easily quantify">, so the method I used (the "Duckweed Index") needed be a "recipe" to follow, that wasn't too complicated and <"worked in (nearly) all circumstances">. The hope was always that, once the...

Hi all, Perfect, that is partially why I prefer <"watching the plants"> to adding a set amount of fertiliser on a regular basis. I probably would let it spread a bit, it is a great nitrogen sink as @PARAGUAY says, and <"this is the why">: This is what it looks like, if you <"feed it...

Hi Darrel, That's a serious price saving for sure!! I'm currently spending about £15 for 2 months on TNC!! So are you saying my tank would just need the 12g per week of Solufeed and that would cover all nutrients needed ?? Seems too good to be true lol Many thanks Matt

...would last you the best part of 18 months at ~£0.20 a week. It is honestly a no brainer. Yes, "low tech". If you want to use the <"Duckweed Index">? you just watch the leaf growth and colour of a floating plant (originally "Duckweed", Lemna minor), now ideally Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium...

Hi @KirstyF and @MichaelJ Thanks both for your input I appreciate it, it's all very confusing but I'm sure I will get my head round it. I do like the thought of going down the dry salt route but also the solufeed does sound good. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind?? -do you make...

...use the IFC calculator but Darrels not steering you far wrong here! (IMO) 😊 Once you’ve got ur eye in, you may even want to use the duckweed index, aka, ‘dose when your plants tell you they need it’ Either way, with a tank that size, you definitely want to move over to dry salts. I’m...

...of when to feed. Originally I used <"Lemna minor (Common Duckweed">), because it has an even quicker turn over of leaves, hence the <"Duckweed Index">, but it has a <"number of disadvantages"> and my <"duckweed of choice"> is now actually Amazon Frogbit. I don't think that is algae, I think...

Thanks for the clarification Darrel and all of your help👍. How do you think my Salvinia Aruculata will work? I also have Red Root Floater on the way too but, won't have any Amazon Frogbit until my big tank gets here.

...suitable for every plant">. Have a look at <"Glasshouse "floating weeds" tank."> It really has to be a floating plant to use for the Duckweed Index, so that it isn't CO2 limited and it is only Lemna minor or L. gibba that goes that really dark green under large nitrogen loadings. That is...

Roger that. Definitely going to be mixing my own eventually. Interesting. Where can one get one of those colour cards? Learning to read my plants for signs of deficiencies and compensate with ferts is at the top of my learning list right now. I like Frogbit too and can't wait to get some along...

...an ion, the plants don't care how much they cost. Have a look at the <"The scientific background to the "Leaf Colour Chart""> and <"Duckweed Index">. I use leaf size and colour, in a non-CO2 limited plant, as an indication of when, or whether, I need to add nutrients. Others will add more...

Thank you so much!! this is super helpful. I'll deffo be doing some more reading tonight! Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

...floating plant (ideally <"Amazon Frogbit"> (Limnobium laevigatum)) as my <"nutrient "canary"">. Because it is a floating plant it has access to <"~415 ppm atmospheric CO2"> and its growth isn't ever CO2 limited. Have a look at the <"Duckweed Index"> for more details. Happy reading cheers...

As you should Darrel 😎 Using the tap for remineralising definitely. Gave James’ remineralisation a whirl previously to see if there’s anything more worthwhile trying. Then, realised quickly that this was the wrong question. Unfortunately stuck using RO rather than rain water as it hardly...

Hi all, I'm taking <"credit for this"> (as well as for the <"Duckweed Index">) I honestly think that using your hard, alkaline tap water as your <"remineralising agent is a no brainer">. You aren't going to use very much, so even if you have (justifiable) concerns about the nitrate (NO3-) and...

...it <"suits my morning routine">. When I had more fish I used to change a bit more water, but still use the conductivity datum / Duckweed Index as a guide to whether I was changing enough water. If I've been away from home for a while I'll do a bigger volume water change and I've never...

Hi all, That was partially why I started using a datum <"conductivity range">. Conductivity isn't the most useful measurement, but it has certain advantages, because the meters are, <"relatively cheap">, <"plug and play">, you can just dip them in and get an accurate reading (but you may...

Thanks for your advice Darrel. I might go for the TNC Complete then as the Solufeed looks a bit complicated. I will start reintroducing the macro / micro ferts now then

...out of you. TNC complete is fine. In terms of fertiliser I'm using Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 (<"from earlier in the thread">) and the <"Duckweed Index">. Just add enough fertiliser to <"keep your Frogbit"> looking like it did in this photo. Solufeed isn't an aquarium fertiliser, and contains...

...cores. The <"Trophic Diatom Index">. This is an algal bioassay paper that touches on both <"the plants can't lie"> and the <"Duckweed Index">. "Novel use of the alga Pseudokirchneriella subcapitata, as an early-warning indicator to identify climate change ambiguity in aquatic environments...

...ability to <"persist at low nutrient levels"> was one of the reasons I swapped to Limnobium laevigatum (from Lemna minor) for the <"Duckweed Index">. We have talked about different nutrient in terms of <"Orchids, Bromeliads and Tomatoes"> (and <"turned up to eleven"> plants). I really don't...

...tissue formed when iron isn't available <"will always be chlorotic">. The non-mobility of iron is why I've moved to using a <"hybrid Duckweed index">, where I add iron on a regular basis. This is @Zeus. 's "Future of Aquascaping" picture, where the iron has been turned off and on. Cheers...

It truly is your favourite..., isn't it? :D But I agree, it's a smart analytic tool, in this case and in general.

...you can check whether it is the substrate, or lack of fertilisers, and that is to <"use a floating plant">. Have a look at the <"Duckweed Index">, it is a method where <"you add fertilisers"> only when your "Duckweed" growth slows to an unacceptable level. At the moment I'm using...

...what we say, or think, and it <"really, really p*sses me off">. Personally I realise I've been flippant, at times, about both the <"Duckweed Index"> and <"Cycling">, but they have an <"under-pinning of science"> and there is a valid scientific rationale for why they might work. In terms...

...like? Assuming they all look OK? Then I wouldn't worry too much. I actually think the values from the <"leaf colour chart"> and <"Duckweed Index"> are a pretty good proxy for nitrate content in the plant. Try diluting the tank water before you test it, ideally with RO, but if you don't...

You got beaten to it man. Meet the "pump in a tupperware":

1. lack of light - yes 2. lack of CO2 - no 3. lack of oxygen 4. elevated dissolved organic compounds in the water column 5. high oxygen demand in the substrate, i.e. too much easily degradable particulate organics in the substrate. I oxygenate water permanently, so I keep CO2 always low but not...

...I'm definitely going to build the hype up slowly for <"Pump in a Bucket">, before adding in lots of different <"variations on a theme">, <"James Dyson"> style. Going <"too big, too early"> was the mistake with the Duckweed Index, that and not patenting a "new improved" duckweed. cheers Darrel

...Limnobium laevigatum is a pretty good indicator of nutrient deficiencies, which was why it became my <"preferred Duckweed"> for the <"Duckweed Index">. It always had to be a floating plant, to take CO2 out of the equation, and originally it was Lemna minor, but that has a <"number of...

Hi all, That is interesting, do you re-mineralise it? @jameson_uk 's threads have been really useful. I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning that he is red-green colour-blind, which makes the colour element of the "Duckweed Index" a lot more problematic. cheers Darrel

...right. Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) is actually the <"plant I use"> to help and <"diagnose nutrient deficiencies">, via the <"Duckweed Index">. Have a look at <"Frogbit taken a turn">, it shows a complete cycle from chlorotic to healthy. Because the <"chlorosis is in the new...

...would be Amazon Frogbit, mainly because it has a <"nice green leaf"> which means I can use it as my <"Duckweed"> of choice for the <"Duckweed Index">. I like "Hornwort" (Ceratophyllum demersum) and "Indian Fern" (Ceratopteris "thalictroides"), they are <"sub-surface floaters"> and easy to...

Hi all, They are "inflated sheaths" and they act as floats. <"It is a p.i.t.a."> I'm assuming that it (the Lemna minor) was a bit yellow because of the soft water, both Hygrorhyza aristata and Phyllanthus fluitans looked healthy. cheers Darrel

Hi all, I did say <"I'd write articles"> about <"cycling", <"water chemistry"> and the <"duckweed index"> and I still haven't really done any of them. I just need a tranche of time to get the references up to date and work up what I've already got. I still refer back to the one I wrote about...

Absolute stable levels of nutrients was not the intent of EI, but rather "The focus of EI is to ensure that the plants never lack any of their required nutrients. " I still don't see this aim being affected by say 10 ppm NO3 the first day after water change. Many plants won't have issues, but...

Hi all, Yes I'd agree, there are a lot of deficiencies which <"are difficult to diagnose">, but I think iron (Fe) is possible, mainly because there aren't many nutrients that are <"non-mobile and cause chlorosis in new leaves">. You also have probability on your side, due to the difficulties of...

Darrel I will have to dig up some of my conversations with Barr on this topic. I have them but not at my fingertips. It has to do with the very small relative amounts that we use. Like I said I know many of the best in the hobby who routinely dose macro/micros together and have no issue with...

Hi all, I'm not convinced, mainly because it is the mechanism that <"phosphate stripping"> uses at wastewater plants. Are you saying that the phosphate (PO4---) level is to low to precipitate out the iron (Fe+++) ions? or that the HCO3- and OH- ions will mop any ferric iron (Fe+++) ions...