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  1. Dave Spencer

    Stu's ADA Mini M nano - Seiryu scape

    Looking good, Stu. Regards, Dave
  2. Dave Spencer

    30 x 30 x 30 Unnamed 'scape....

    Nice one, Dan. Have you still got that lovely Discus in the tank next door? By the way, judging by the second photo, your colouring in is really coming along nicely. Dave.
  3. Dave Spencer

    English woodland Long overdue update

    Re: English woodland Marsilea hirsuta will be an excellent plant for this size of tank. It is dead easy to grow, but gets a bit taller than Marsilea crenata in my experience, and is slower growing. Mine chucks out the odd three leaf clover, but I cut those off as they look out of place. I`m...
  4. Dave Spencer

    Andrew's 90cm

    This sounds reasonable. I wonder whether there would be enough traffic to justify a sub forum for people wanting a critique of their work. Sorry for the thread hi jack, Chuppy. Dave.
  5. Dave Spencer

    Andrew's 90cm

    I`m glad I stumbled across this comment, as I rarely bother with journals. For me, there is far too much high fiving, back slapping etc when people post their tanks, without any worthwhile comments on the scape. My guess is that you are right, and people don`t take criticism too well on UKAPS...
  6. Dave Spencer

    George's 120cm - Nature's Reflection v2

    This a big shame, George. I think it goes to show how much maintenance we put in to our tanks day after day, even though we are not aware we are doing it. Although water changes with a little trim are all that register in my head, the constant little five minutes of faffing around here and there...
  7. Dave Spencer

    My venture into my new 760 ltr planted tank .

    Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam. Is that a Bucker Bu 131 "Jungman" in your avatar? Dave.
  8. Dave Spencer

    George's 120cm - Nature's Reflection v2

    Moss is a real crud magnet in my experience, resulting in algae. I always use a pasting brush to constantly fluff it up and keep it pristine. I find it a high maintenance plant, especially after cutting it back and trying to retrieve all the off cuts that sink. How have done yours, George? I...
  9. Dave Spencer

    George's 120cm - Nature's Reflection v2

    It`s interesting for me to see how your Glosso is behaving at an early stage, George. I thought mine was getting a bit leggy, but seems to look like yours at the moment. Does a trim after a settling in stage lower it, or will stay at the height yours is now, but just fill out? I always got the...
  10. Dave Spencer

    60x45x45 Optiwhite

    Nice looking set up, but it is The Clash poster that sets it a class apart from the others. Dave.
  11. Dave Spencer

    Steve's Opti-white Nano - Ikita Kaseki

    Re: Steve's Opti-white Nano Can you wait until July? :wink: Dave.
  12. Dave Spencer

    Osaka 260 Mish Mash

    Hi Chris, When I was in the RAF I used to work with a guy called Nick Sainsbury-Bowe, who had married in to the supermarket mogul family. We used to call him Waitrose-B`stard. He was a nice bloke, but has probably inherited squillions by now. Dave.
  13. Dave Spencer

    Andyh's 60L kitchen tank

    That is one hell of a first tank, Andy! Dave.
  14. Dave Spencer

    My first Layout "Two Tribes" updated 29/4

    Re: My first Layout I agree with Garuf. Your rocks are way too low. Take a look in the journal section for an idea of how bold you need to be, otherwise your plants will just swallow them up. Even if you went for HC, you would have way too much water column above the scape. For rocks with...
  15. Dave Spencer

    45cm rock scape

    I`m looking forward to seeing how you get on with Isotes sp too. It is a plant I have wanted to try for a long time. Dave.
  16. Dave Spencer

    Naija's 1st planted tank

    I love the lay of the hardscape on the right hand side, and the look of the gravel too. Dave.
  17. Dave Spencer


    It`s starting to show some nice textures, Nico. I especially like the foreground and the ferns around the wood. Dave.
  18. Dave Spencer

    lljdma06's 8g nano 2009! Final tank shots

    Re: lljdma06's New Nano Dutch! Loooong 1st post, sorry. :) Llj is actually a gorgeous, bodice wearing thespian :twisted: . There is photographic evidence somewhere on the internet. :shock: Dave.
  19. Dave Spencer

    lljdma06's .77wpg, no-CO2, 36g journal. The Crypt Keeper

    Love the look of that new Crypt Llj. Hey, I have gone down to using 2 x T8 over a 240l tank. Can I be a member of your low light gang, or do I have to take one of the tubes out? :lol: Dave.
  20. Dave Spencer

    40g - First Attempt at Aquascaping

    mmmm...I think you are a far better scaper than the SAEs. Is the HM doing OK, as it looks a tad brown to me? Dave.
  21. Dave Spencer

    Skinz180189's 60L Budget Tropical Tank *Now Planted!* (56K)

    Re: Skinz180189's 60L Budget Tropical Tank *Not Planted* (56K) These are some lovely, sharp images with great colour balance. I think people are being put off by the plastic. :lol: Dave.
  22. Dave Spencer

    New pheonix 60x30x30 scape.

    I`m a tad confused Garuf. Did you not dose from the word go? Whenever I start a new scape, there is growth from the word go, which means a full dose of ferts from the day one. Once a plant shows a sign of any deficiency, that growth may not recover, so you are dosing for the next generation of...
  23. Dave Spencer

    "Icarus Ville" - 60cm shrimp tank scape

    That last pic is very Aqua Journal. Studio lighting certainly makes a difference. Lovely scape too! Another step foreward for sure. How did you get the edges of the tank aligned with the edges of the picture so accurately? I reckon I must be doing it wrong. Dave.
  24. Dave Spencer

    George's Nano

    I have C. parva growing next to C. willisii in my 120cm. Both plants look virtually the same, except the willisii grows to about 15cm and looks down on the parva. It sounds as if you are describing C. willisii nry. Dave.
  25. Dave Spencer

    journal taster

    That`s a tasty taster John. Bet you can`t want to get your sleeves wet. Dave.
  26. Dave Spencer

    Triangle of Life 10Ltr

    That`s an interesting take on the triangular scape. It should work a treat. Dave.
  27. Dave Spencer

    New pheonix 60x30x30 scape.

    Looking good garuf. Shame about the cheap and nasty cabinet. :lol: Hope this shows how I braced mine. I`m certain it needed it. Dave.
  28. Dave Spencer

    Amazónia Dream

    Does your missus know about this amazing coincidence, Paulo? Dave.
  29. Dave Spencer

    Amazónia Dream

    It`s a first class tank in every respect, William. Portugal seems to have quite a lot of aquascapers. Is it a popular hobby over there? dave.
  30. Dave Spencer

    TDI's Blyxa - Riverbank (picture update 19/5/09)

    I like the way the textures of the plants seem to compliment this, and the way the Crypts are in contrast to it. As for the lace plant....I`ve never seen a scape with one in that it added something to, but that is just me I guess. :? Tank is looking good, though. :D Dave.
  31. Dave Spencer

    Matt's Rio 180 Journal

    Hi Matt, I have just had a look at your Flickr account. You go to some interesting places. For now, with a low plant mass, you could help yourself by keeping the lighting back at four or five hours, and slowly build it up as the plant mass increases. Is it just stock lighting? When you get...
  32. Dave Spencer

    Superman's 180ltr Rescape

    It is really starting to look great Clark. I really like the sparse look it has at the moment. The substrate looks superb. I hope the ET doesn`t make it too high maintenance. Dave.
  33. Dave Spencer

    John starkey 450lts 112g journal new pics 10/5/2009

    Hiya wopmeister! Is the D. diandra going to be a fairly large bush? I have only used it in smaller tanks, and often wondered what an expanse would look like. That is one seriously healthy, vibrant looking tank you have. :D Dave.
  34. Dave Spencer

    James3200s 6.5x2x2' planted tank - UPDATE - 26/06/09

    Re: James3200s 6.5x2x2' planted tank - UPDATE - 23/01/09 I reckon Discus must be the kings of the planted tank. Looking good James. Dave.
  35. Dave Spencer

    Superman's 180ltr Rescape

    Have you got fish in there yet, Clark? If not, put the CO2 up and keep the water well dosed. I accidentally discovered that this avoids crypt melt. I`ve not had a single crypt melt on me yet. I wonder if it is down to the huge difference in available carbon to the emersed growth and the...
  36. Dave Spencer

    saintly's "Prairie Lands"

    Christ!!! You took that personally, didn`t you? :D I have clearly chronicled my misfortunes in my 60cm, and people are free to comment on any level they like. Don`t take it so seriously, mate. It`s only a hobby. You don`t hear from too often because you know how to scape and don`t need my...
  37. Dave Spencer

    saintly's "Prairie Lands"

    Still suffering from premature stripdown, Mark? :lol: That`s the spirit. I have a 4 year old I can blame my 60cm disaster on. :lol: I often re use Amazonia, as I am a bit tight too. I`ve never had problems doing this, even after drying out. When I put it back in, it still has the nice earthy...
  38. Dave Spencer

    Without Foundation - James Maslin

    Strangely enough, this really works for me, too. I bet Oliver Knott wishes he had thought of it first. Were there any worries about any chemicals leaching out of the bricks? Dave.
  39. Dave Spencer

    saintly's "Prairie Lands"

    Due to extreme laziness, I am going to ask you what the grassy plant is, rather than do some reading. :? Is it L. brasiliensis? Dave.
  40. Dave Spencer

    Peely's 55cm Cube

    The wood has a bit of a too chunky feeling for me, but it is hard to picture the look until the plants have started to surround it. The hardware looks impressive. Reefers certainly know what they are doing from this aspect. Any ideas on your fishes? Dave.
  41. Dave Spencer

    The Oasis.

    People like George, Zig and Saintly seem to get it growing straight from the off, whereas I seem to have to wait a month or two, even though I know all ferts are good and they are planted in Amazonia. It makes me want to drop in to their tanks whatever went in to this one. :lol: This may get...
  42. Dave Spencer

    The Oasis.

    Cheers, Thomas. Unfortunately, it is on hold for the duration. I may plant out the HC once it has changed its growth to immersed, as I find it a very slow starter in past experiences. Some people can get it to take off straight away, but for me, unless I keep it potted up until the growth...
  43. Dave Spencer

    The Oasis.

    I thought I might as well turn this in to a journal, seeing as the woes with it require virtual daily posting. The hardscape was first put in way back in November 2008, long before I knew I would have the time to plant it up. Tank specs: Opti white 60l tank. Tetratec EX700 filter with glass...
  44. Dave Spencer

    Dammit, not another tank to do! 450 Gallon Starfire glass

    I would liken it more to buying myself an Aston Martin DB5, but getting somebody else to drive it for me. Whilst I would pester someone like Tom for advice, I would have to do it myself. I guess the customer has asked Tom because they are not capable of aquascaping...which is a bit like...
  45. Dave Spencer

    40g - First Attempt at Aquascaping

    There is definitely the foundations for a nice triangular scape here. What I would like to see is low foreground plants becoming increasingly more sparse as the eye moves to the right of the tank. Dave.
  46. Dave Spencer

    Mark 1st Journal

    No 1 for me. Is the tank overhanging the stand? Dave.
  47. Dave Spencer

    Once upon a time at the riverbank - Final update

    Re: Once upon a time at the riverbank 125Ltr Amateur! Mine are way more dirty. :oops: Strangely enough, one of my lily pipes has a slight flaw in the glass that attrats a tiny amount of BGA from time to time. Fortunately, it is easily accessible for cleaning as soon as it appears. Amazing to...
  48. Dave Spencer

    Aaron's 216l journal!

    Re: Aaron's 240l journal! Is the powerhead a cheaper version of a Hydor, Aaron? They look very similar. Dave.
  49. Dave Spencer

    The tank I could not resist in buying

    Very nice. I like the bubble wrap idea for filling the tank. Dave.
  50. Dave Spencer

    Once upon a time at the riverbank - Final update

    Re: Once upon a time at the riverbank 125Ltr Lovely textures Andy. I think you have captured the title of this thread perfectly. Someone is an aquascaper, whether they like it or not. :lol: Dave.
  51. Dave Spencer

    1600 Gallon 5 meters long planted behemoth

    I wish the owner had let you decide on the fish, Tom. For me it would have been based around wild caught Discus and/or Altums. Did the owner have a great deal of say on plant choice, or is it largely your scape, Tom? Dave.
  52. Dave Spencer

    the evolution of my tank! any advice or tips welcome!

    Re: my first "proper" tank! any advice or tips welcome! It`s a good looking start BVB! Once you are happy with growth, you could try cutting and replanting the plants you like most, and possibly start to move out the ones you like least. Keeping plants in large groups together will give the...
  53. Dave Spencer

    "Spooky woodland" - oatfish's tank

    I have to say that for a Noah`s Ark of a tank, you did a pretty good job. Isn`t the second tank a Barr creation, or am I getting it wrong again? Dave.
  54. Dave Spencer

    60cm Rekord 70 Lowtech

    This should turn out looking nice, Fred. Plus you will have plenty of time for tinkering. :D Have you considered a smaller, complimentary Crypt at the front ie. parva? This may give you a more clearly defined foreground. Bolbitis heudolottii wouldn`t look out of place in there, either. Due...
  55. Dave Spencer

    Dan's Little Mountain replacement

    Are you sure about using glass, Dan? I reckon some nice green plastic pipework would be much better. :lol: Dave.
  56. Dave Spencer

    Tonys 'Nano Rouge' 14L

    Re: Tonsers Nano Rouge - planted ! George, Google the name Bruce Fraser. ... g-workflow Whole books on bloody sharpening. :lol: Dave.
  57. Dave Spencer

    saintly's "Prairie Lands"

    Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi Scaredy cat! :lol: It is seriously high maintenance, though. I still think I will give it another go some time, but without any stems in the tank. Dave.
  58. Dave Spencer

    Stus Rio 125 re-plant journal

    Loving the mosses on the stone, Stu. That`s something I haven`t tried yet, but intend to. Dave.
  59. Dave Spencer

    saintly's "Prairie Lands"

    Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi I have used E. Vivipara, but made the mistake of planting it near some M. umbrosum....what a mess. As long as it is the only tall plant in the tank it looks fantastic IMO. Not sure I`ll ever try it again, though! Dave. P.S. Mine was from Plants Alive and was very...
  60. Dave Spencer

    James3200s 6.5x2x2' planted tank - UPDATE - 26/06/09

    Re: James3200s 6.5x2x2' planted tank - UPDATE - 23/01/09 That`s what I get for not reading the thread and realising the size of the tank. :roll: Dave.
  61. Dave Spencer

    James3200s 6.5x2x2' planted tank - UPDATE - 26/06/09

    Re: James3200s 6.5x2x2' planted tank - UPDATE - 23/01/09 Flash used directly above the tank, or used to illuminate the background works well. I have two flash guns I can fire remotely, but have yet to try this out (too many other things to photograph). The underexposure Saintly mentions is...
  62. Dave Spencer

    Jay's new 'scape 120cm

    Re: Jay's "The Fobidden Land" ADA entry teaser. I agree with this totally, but I am considering keeping my 120cm under wraps, just in case I enter it. Dave.
  63. Dave Spencer

    saintly's "The Miracle Mire" scape over

    Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire" I learnt the hard way that a CO2 adjustment has to be monitored. I wiped out a load of Copper harlequins in my 120cm. I use a hose to fill up the 120cm, and I make sure nothing distracts me from that job. I could imagine a waterfall would occur in no time...
  64. Dave Spencer

    Jay's new 'scape 120cm

    Re: Jay's "The Fobidden Land" ADA entry teaser. Excellent scape, Jay! Dave.
  65. Dave Spencer

    The Henge part 2 MA @ eastbridgford

    Re: The Henge part 2 Got any pics of the creeping MU, Mark? Mine always grows upright. Dave.
  66. Dave Spencer

    saintly's Pastel Shades

    Re: saintly's 60cm opti-white You might find keeping the moss pristine an even bigger PITA Mark. I can`t belive how prolific you are and still maintaining such a high standard. You do know you have a wife and kid, don`t you?:lol: Dave.
  67. Dave Spencer

    saintly's "The Miracle Mire" scape over

    Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire" I have had my doubts about the stems and overall effect on the shape of this aquascape......mentioned it a while ago. :idea: The IAPLC is becoming a PITA for people not showing their tanks anymore. Dave.
  68. Dave Spencer

    Stus Rio 125 re-plant journal

    You have the same tap water as me Stu, I think. Therefore, it is very soft with negligible N and P. I like to add a pinch of GH booster at water change, too, just to keep the Mg and Ca levels up a bit. Your mosses look a bit sorry for themselves. Keep the Easycarbo away from them when you dose...
  69. Dave Spencer

    saintly's "The Miracle Mire" scape over

    Re: saintly's ??????? scape Are the Anubias "coffeefolia"? If so, those huge emerged leaves will die off and some smaller growth will come through. This is the phase mine is going through. If the older leaves get too big, I will just cut them off, promoting more smaller growth. My only concern...
  70. Dave Spencer

    Celestial Glade - 125Ltr Low Light, Low Maintenance

    This is definitely your best looking set up to date, Andy. It has a Farmeresque feel to it. Dave.
  71. Dave Spencer

    7gal Shrimp only - "Forgotten Glade"

    This tank should look terrific when the moss has caught up. Make sure the Bolbitis doesn`t take over. It is becoming a bit of a monster in my 120cm and not quite the slow grower I thought. Dave.
  72. Dave Spencer

    Superman's Replant - 180l - Crypt's Causeway

    I would say your planting lacks any real structure to it. There appear to be all manner of different Crypts all over the place. By trying to group the same type together you then get to see the form and texture of each type, rather than a general melee of different types. I appreciate the...
  73. Dave Spencer

    The Forgotten Valley - 60l

    Hemianthus micranthemoides is the stem plant in Aaron`s tank. Hemianthus callitrichoides is the carpetting plant, which is also shown in the TGM tank. Dave.
  74. Dave Spencer

    Stus Rio 125 re-plant journal

    You will need the 300W to fit the 1200 hoses. I run two 1200s on my 120cm and am very happy with them...and the Hydor in line heater. Dave.
  75. Dave Spencer

    Stus Rio 125 re-plant journal

    I would just leave it under 100% darkness for the duration, Stu. As soon as the covers come off, hit it with as big a water change as possible and get straight back on to the ferts and CO2 for maximum plant growth whilst the Spirogyra is subdued. You may want to consider upping the water...
  76. Dave Spencer

    60cm - 90l

    As difficult as it can be to get the hardscape right, sometimes, it seems to me that it could be even more difficult to use no hardscape. Dave.
  77. Dave Spencer

    20L Mini M Journal

    Any updates, eoto? Dave.
  78. Dave Spencer

    saintlys sumatradriftwood scape

    I`ve been enjoying this tank without making comment for a while now, Mark, but am not overly keen on your choice of fish for this scape. The fish could become too dominant, and out of balance with the rest of the look, plus I am not too big a fan of hybrid fish myself. Still, it`s your money...
  79. Dave Spencer

    TDI's Blyxa-Blyxa Journal

    Yes, I reckon some nice hardcsape would give you a midground. Dave.
  80. Dave Spencer

    TDI's Blyxa-Blyxa Journal

    Original use of Blyxa as far as I know. Great stuff TDI. :D I do think your tank lacks some kind of transition from front to rear, though. Dave.
  81. Dave Spencer

    Dan's New Tank

    I could just imagine you there, drunk and peeing in to Amanos 9000l tank, dead Altums floating to the top. :lol: Dave.
  82. Dave Spencer

    saintlys big tank journal on speed.(picture heavy)

    I have always liked the undulating effect Riccia gives, but I think it might be overpowering the rocks in this scape. Good stuff, though. Dave.
  83. Dave Spencer

    YAR180 (Yet Another Rio 180).

    Re: From scratch. YAR180 (Yet Another Rio 180) Sounds like it is going to be grasstastic. I had some E. vivipara a while back. I get the occassional plant still growing through, so if I have room in my spare nano to grow it on a bit, I`ll send you some. The nano is currently housing cuttings I...
  84. Dave Spencer

    saintlys "The Henge"

    I definitely isn`t Rotala wallichii. I am sticking with Rotala sp green. Dave.
  85. Dave Spencer

    saintlys "The Henge"

    That stem plant looks like Rotala sp green to me. It definitely isn`t HM. Personally, I am not sure about Eleocharis vivipara in this set up. It has the wrong texture for me. If you do use it, keep it away from the stems as it gets totally intertwined. It is probably the highest maintenance...
  86. Dave Spencer

    Rescaped my 54L today

    It looks promising, but i fear you may lose those rocks in the undergrowth. Dan is right about the rocks. You may have three, but the illusion is of two. Three distinctive rocks would give it a better feel. Dave.
  87. Dave Spencer

    UG - Utricularia graminifolia

    Interesting that, James. My UG looks fantastic and stays really low and looks lush and grassy. The only thing is that it is a painfully slow grower. I use EI, but find it interesting that it keeps the plants healthy, but very slow growing. Dave.
  88. Dave Spencer

    saintlys "The Henge"

    Re: saintlys 60 x 30 x36 optiwhite Go for it Clive. I love a good verbal scrap, backed up by pictures of flourishing planted tanks soaked in toxins. :lol: I have been thinking of starting an `algae causes` thread on the TFF scientific section forum, but I lack your eloquence. Dave.
  89. Dave Spencer

    PM's 54 Liter Journal.

    It`s an excellent first attempt for sure. Once it grows in it should look great. I am not sure what stems you had originally, but I would recommend the more delicate types for a tank of this size. Have you considered Micranthemum umbrosum and Hemianthus micranthemoides? One tweek I would make...
  90. Dave Spencer

    Sam's nano journal

    Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal Good stuff Sam. Is the tank from the UKAPS meeting at yours? HC is a great plant! With a decent pair of curved scissors, you could keep this scape for as long as you want. Dave.
  91. Dave Spencer

    Marks 120cm Bay Fronted Jungle "A 5 Year Work In Progress"

    There is a lot of good stuff going on in this tank, but the Crypt is becoming a bit too distracting IMO, and doesn`t really fit in with the texture of the rest of the tank. Personally, I would replace it with some other type of stem along the lines of HM or MU. Rotala sp `Nanjenshan` or the...
  92. Dave Spencer

    George's 80cm - final shots

    The orangy red from the Rotala rotundifolia and Ember tetras are a little touch of quality to break up the mass of healthy green. I love the restraint. How many Embers do you have, George? Dave.
  93. Dave Spencer

    Vase's 720 litre journal

    I pretty much agree with this. Having 100l/h of filtration at one end may not be as effective as having 300l/h at each end, in terms of movement of nutrients around the tank. Dave.
  94. Dave Spencer

    Vase's 720 litre journal

    I am planning a 240l that will have two tetratec 1200s. I will have an inline CO2 reactor that will affect the output of one of them, but I aim to compensate for this by leaving the media at a bare minimum in both filters. They will run with Purigen, Zeolite and a little sponge of varying grades...
  95. Dave Spencer

    My new scape named Variance.Sneaky pre-ADA peak.

    Oi, Jim got the Rotala sp `green` for me. :lol: Just joking, I already bought three pots. Just to let you know, Graeme, my Hygrophila corymbosa `compact` suffered a big die off. It has spent about two weeks underwater, and I am still waiting for it to grow back. If you see yours dying off, I...
  96. Dave Spencer

    Volcanic Slopes... 10G Journal...

    I agrre that the hard scape looks great, Corin. IMO, getting this part right is the hardest part of aquascaping. It forms the foundations of everything that follows. Having said that, plant choice is very important, and I feel one or two of your choices are inappropriate for a tank this small...
  97. Dave Spencer

    Sam's now to be high light 20g

    HM would look pretty good around the base of that wood, Sam. Regular trimming will keep it nice and lowish and dense, and the new growth is the best looking part of the plant. Amano`s HM always looks as if he has pruned it two or three days before photographing it. It is also not the fastest...
  98. Dave Spencer

    My sort of 11" cube

    I used to struggle with HC, but now find growing it to be relatively easy, provided it is given a good start. First off, I found it will thrive in a high light tank with CO2, a good substrate (Aqua Soil in my case) and regular ferts. When I first receive the pots, I sit them in my tank for...
  99. Dave Spencer

    Dan's New Tank

    Lovely looking tank, Dan. Most people seem to place their paths according to the golden ratio, but you have done a great job of chucking that rule out the window. The path is looking a little too well defined for me at the moment, as in man made. Will you be using mosses to blend it in a...
  100. Dave Spencer

    James3200s 6.5x2x2' planted tank - UPDATE - 26/06/09

    I was doing a total rescape on my 60cm yesterday and broke my Cal Aqua inlet pipe. :( I thought I was going to be looking at a crappy Eheim inlet for ages, but I ordered a replacement from Aqua Essentials and it arrived this morning. Quality service. :D Yes, they are very delicat and yes, I...