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Betta in need of help, please

Marcia

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2021
Messages
40
Location
South Yorkshire
Hello everyone, I'm looking for some advice, please. A week ago i’ve noticed that my Betta’s fins have become ragged. He was also spending most of the time in the bottom of the tank, not swimming much. I’ve given him a blue methylene bath for 15 min then put him back in his tank, did a 25% water change, added 1 large cattapa almond leaf and a pinch of Dennerle Bee Salt (I’ve got few shrimps in the same tank). Next morning he was at the bottom again but breathing heavily so I put him in a net and propped it near the surface to help him breathe and he did. I’ve stopped feeding him for two days. He’s perked up and was able to float again to surface on his own. I’ve lowered the water to less than half tank to help him going to surface. I’ve started feeding him mashed peas and he greatly accepted it. But he’s still lethargic and more often than not we see him curved and pointed downwards. He seems a bit swollen at the end of his body but no pinecone scales. He can still swim fast and go to the direction he wants to. I’ve bought Kings Swim Bladder Control but I haven’t give it to him yet as I’m not sure it’s a swim bladder issue or not.

Could anyone please advice what else I could do to help him? He seems hungry (third day not feeding him pellets) and looking for baby shrimps under the log and caves. I've got frozen bloodworm and Tetra FreshDelica Daphnia but I'm not sure if I should feed those to him at the moment? Previously I was feeding him Hikari Betta Gold pellets and realised I was giving him far too many (10 a day)!

Thank you in advance.

Tank is Fluval 34L
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0-5
pH 6.5-7
dGH 2.1
Temp 28ºC
Weekly 25-50% water change with Seachem Prime
Name is Nugget

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Any chance you can get him to flare his fins so we can see the extent of the damage? :)
He's got a lot of finnage to carry about and they may be tiring him out,you haven't noticed him biting them have you?
Not really a good idea to feed peas to Betta as vegetation is not part of their diet...for the purposes of relieving bloat live daphnia are far more effective for them.
Also do you know how old he is?
 
Hello Miranda, thank you for your reply. I haven't noticed him biting his own fin, I know some Bettas do that to relieve the weight... We've got him in September last year but I'm not sure exactly how old he is. I've stopped with the peas and gave him daphnia last night and this morning. He seems perky again but still gets in a curved position resting, like in the first pic above...

I haven't managed to take a good picture of his fins, but here's one at his prime, to compare:
 

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Recently a shrimp gave birth and I've seen him rummaging under the log to catch baby shrimps. Maybe his fins got torn doing that? There's sand on top of soil too. I've witnessed him eating baby shrimps and because I was already overfeeding him with pellets (I didn't know it was too much, but I do now) maybe he's got bloated and constipated? I'll keep an eye on pH and Gh too.
 
It could be that he's torn them doing that but comparing the photos the tail looks more "melted" as if it might be fin rot but I can't see an obvious cause for that as your tank parameters,care regime and set up seem pretty much perfect to me.
Photos sometimes make it more difficult to tell colour but there seems to be increased reddening towards the base of the tail or is that normal for him...I know the lighter coloured fish often show more prominent veins.
The swelling towards the base isn't bloat as it's in the wrong place :)
 
I agree that some parts of his long back fins look quite pink, it's not as red as in the pictures. I wonder if he's injured somehow. His fins are much more ruffled than it was when we first got him, seems heavy now... It's still a struggle for him to swim up, he's staying mostly at the bottom. He comes up when I feed him.
Pictures from today:
 

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Unfortunately this is the issue with the larger tail types,it's a lot of weight to carry around hence why you see them resting more compared to the hmpk types which are much more active.
I'm not sure what to suggest as a treatment,a course of something such as NT Labs anti internal bacteria might be an option but not sure how safe it would be for the shrimp.
Used it myself in the past with shrimp no problem but I think it's stated as not invert safe.
 
Thank you for your help @MirandaB I really appreciate it. I’ve ordered the NT Labs anti internal bacteria as it might be good to have it in the cupboard anyway. I hope it helps Nugget to recover. Thanks again.
 
I see a few little red spots on the ends of the fins in those last pictures which could suggest the start of a bacterial infection. Unfortunately it's very easy for these types of bettas to catch their finnage unless kept in a bare tank. They really need next to no flow and no decor, which isn't much of a life. I'd follow miranda's advice above and maybe consider a little qt tank to treat it away from the shrimp if needed (luckily bettas dont need anything that complicated).
 
Hi @mort thank you for spotting that. Do you think I should give him a bath with the NT Anti Bacterial in a separate container for a while (15min?) and then put him back in his tanks? That's what I do with the Blue Methylene. Or would it need to be for longer? I can also remove the shrimps instead. The main decoration is a Mopani wood which has Anubias attached to it that helps support him a bit higher up in the tank; the rest of decoration is mainly live plants and betta hammocks. The filter is on the lowest flow and I don't know how to decrease even further... should I turn it off for a while? Sorry for so many questions, I keep thinking about him and how to help him, I feel like I'm failing him... :(
 
here he is today on Anubias
 

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Hi Marcia, the fact you are worried and trying your hardest to get him right means you aren't failing him at all. From the pictures the tank looks good so I wouldn't change it. The filter should stay on and I'd suggest the setup is fine because you have had him a long time now (I had only seen the last few replies on the thread and didn't realise you had already gone into plenty of detail about his care and got more great advice from miranda).
I've not used that medication but it seems like one you are best dosing long term and not just a bath. It really needs the fish to sit in it and take it for it to work but from a quick search it claims it's plant, shrimp and filter safe. I'd do another quick search to see if anyone has had problems using it but you can hopefully treat the tank (if you have another suitable tan it can be worth moving some of the shrimp just in case but that hopefully is overkill).
 
It's Chloramine T @mort,I've had good results in the past and it's one of the "safer" meds.
@Marcia as mort said he'll need to stay in it for it to have the best chance of working...unfortunately we're bit limited on what meds we can use unless you get antibiotics which will need to be prescribed by a vet with the associated cost.
 
Thank you @MirandaB and @mort for your kind help and advices. Nugget's health has deteriorated further and he's not eating or moving at all. His breathing was laboured at the bottom of the tank so I've put him in a net propped near the surface and he's now breathing calmly again. However, his scales started to open up in a pinecone shape. It must have been Dropsy all along... The NT Antibacterial hasn't been delivered, I've been chasing Royal Mail who has the parcel since Monday but with no success. I'm not sure if it would have helped or if it's too late anyway now... And I've got a poorly kid off school all this week so I can't go anywhere to buy too. I haven't got clover oil either nor the heart/courage to do it. Poor Nugget. I'm keeping the water at 28ºC, air stone in, lights off. We shed tears by the tank saying goodbye.
 

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I'm sorry to hear that as well. I completely agree with Miranda again, once they reach this stage the internal organs are generally affected. Sometimes they can live on for a while but often they fade away. It's extremely hard to diagnose before they get to this point which is very frustrating.
Unfortunately disease is common with these types of betta.
 
Hi all,
Unfortunately disease is common with these types of betta.
I think all really fancy Siamese Fighters are difficult to keep long term, presumably due to over-breeding and limited genetic base. If anybody sold "mongrel" Betta they would likely be a lot healthier.

If I wanted long lasting Betta siamensis, I'd go for a "Plakat" type. Betta imbellis might be better again, if you could find it

cheers Darrel
 
Thank you @MirandaB @mort @dw1305 for your kind words and reassurance. They mean a lot when you're so full of worries and guilt. Thank you so much.

Nugget passed away... we miss him. He taught us a lot about his breed and the implications of that type of Bettas, hopefully we won't repeat the same mistakes in the future.

I have a question, if you can help me: how to best sanitise his tank now? We don't plan to have another fish anytime soon but I'd like to keep the plants alive and the cycle going in the tank. There's only 5 shrimps in it now but I can move them in a temporary tank. I really really want to change the substrate as I've regretted adding sand (so hard to clean!) and I want to change 100% to Tropica Soil only. Would it be the right time to do it? Should I add anything to the water to clean off any bacteria/fungus/disease that affected Nugget? Or daily water change should suffice? Thank you all again for your help.
 
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