Thoughts on spraybar direction

[Costa]

Hello all and I hope you are having a pleasant Sunday.

I am considering swapping the rigid pvc pipe between my sump and display tank for a flexible hose, which will give me more options (e.g. add inline diffusers etc) and that got me thinking about the flow in my tank.

Here's a top down view of my tank:

The spraybar runs the length of the tank, flow is good, good plant movement end to end.

What I'm thinking of doing is this:

I think this will push more debris to be collected by the overflow, whilst maintaining the same good flow across the tank.

Thoughts and feedback very welcome.

Thanks!
Costa

 

[Zeus.]

As you have it already is what Clive had on his tank and I do think that would give the best turnover for the tank, but your overflow wont skim very well OFC

What your thinking of doing is how I do it on my room divider tank with an Ehiem skim where your overflow is, yes it will skim better but you wont get the same turnover for the same output as in your present spraybar IMO/IME.

What I am waiting for release ATM is the new Maxspect EF330 which two will fit nicely in the space of the new spray bar position and that will give you variable flow fully programable but not cheap, they havent advise me on the release price yet. The new ones are suppose to be quieter than the XF230 model as they have more blades. Maxspect claim that it will be release at Xmas or there about there testing it ATM

 

[Oldguy]

top down view of my tank:

The layout in the top view would be better for flow distribution, especially for CO2, but the bottom layout would be better for the overflow working as a skimmer. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Second spray bar with its own pump halfway along the tank, bottom set up , could be worth a thought.

 

[Costa]

Thank you @Zeus. and @Oldguy

My priorities are 1) overflow efficiency and 2) CO2 distribution.

Because I will get rid of the rigid PVC pipes, I will be able to install a reactor which will help improve CO2 uptake (or at least I hope so). So, with CO2 sorted, I think placing the spraybar along the side of the tank will help improve skimming.

What do you guys think?

What your thinking of doing is how I do it on my room divider tank with an Ehiem skim where your overflow is, yes it will skim better but you wont get the same turnover for the same output as in your present spraybar IMO/IME.

Can you please post a pic? Thank you

 

[Zeus.]

Because I will get rid of the rigid PVC pipes

Thats one of the reason I've been looking at the maxspect, get rid of spraybars and reduce plumbing

install a reactor which will help improve CO2 uptake

Then the reactors will also reduce your present pumps output will will also effect the tank turnover which will effect CO2 distribution.

Can you please post a pic?

Attached - as you can see I do have a lower spray bar as well which I hate, can have it fitted high as well aims striaght down, but better turnover when its low.

 

[Costa]

Oh man I checked out the xf230, it is amazing but ridiculously expensive for freshwater tanks...

I swear by Jebao pumps, they are super quiet and have never failed me. Have you seen this?

https://www.fish-street.com/jebao-wifi-cross-flow-pump-cp-150

Have you used gyro products before? How efficient are they vs a tank-long spraybar? I am getting flow across the tank, judging by the plant movement, but overflow skimming is a problem, but I think that the gyro is an overkill, since in theory a strong pump with proper spraybar positioning can solve it.

 

[Costa]

Attached - as you can see I do have a lower spray bar as well which I hate, can have it fitted high as well aims striaght down, but better turnover when its low.

Right. How powerful is your pump? I have a Jebao 10,000 which I operate at 50-60%

 

[Zeus.]

Have you used gyro products before?

nope but Chris had one on The Lazy Asian Biotope of his and had a chat with him and he was well happy with his, after that its a leap of faith!

How efficient are they vs a tank-long spraybar?

from what I have read they are good esp if I fit two XF230 which will just fit the width

Right. How powerful is your pump? I have a Jebao 10,000 which I operate at 50-60%

well decent bit of kit you have which you can always ramp up a bit I would run with that and the spraybar . I run a Fluval FX6 so 3000LPH ! which runs the reactors and an Ehiem 3000+ which runs an independant line which feeds the lower spray bar so fixed output and lots of pipes

 

[alto]

Hardscape & planting greatly impact which flow design works best on your tank

- I’d been running the lower pattern (this is suggested in Eheim manual I believe) for ages on my 90cm x 40cm x 55cm (high) but always had a couple particular dead spots
- after reading an article re the 3 options (I’ll look for the link later), I ended up switching to inlet (back corner) & outlet (spraybar runs the width) on same short side, it worked “better” in particle flow tests and seemingly as scape grows in

The upper design is grand if you don’t have a “wall” of stems across the back of the tank, or hardscape which creates a (relatively) uniform barrier (front to back) ... for either scenario, inlet/outlet at the same short side often works best - or if you’ve 2 filters play with diagonal placements. It’s also simpler to “boost” flow with an Eheim skim or other directional flow powerheads


I’ve another tank which is easily set up with either the upper or lower(diagram) flow design, again due to hardscape & plant choices, the lower diagram flow is more efficient

 

[Oldguy]

1) overflow efficiency

If overflow skimming is your number one then spray bar across the shorter dimension as in lower diagram. People run inline diffusers with good results. If I had my time again I would go for larger bore types than the ones I have. However I do run two. Perhaps an inline diffuser with a simple jet out put into your tank at the spray bar short end would improve mixing and give the tank a distinct right to left flow. You and Zeus have deeper pockets than me (or perhaps I have deep pockets and very short arms) and I cannot comment on brand names. I do however rate most Ehiem products, especially the Classic range. I have one of their pumps somewhere, even used it to pump water out of the garage inspection pit, must find it and put it to a dignified use.

 

[Costa]

Thank you @Oldguy and @alto

I don't know if @Zeus. has deep pockets but I certainly don't, I buy either second hand or new from China and I also diy a lot. My lights are £40 Creed floodlights off Amazon and the tank I got for €100.

If I had my time again I would go for larger bore types than the ones I have.

Sorry I don't understand what that means "larger bore types". Do you mean larger holes in the spraybar?

I will make a diagram of the connections from the sump to the spraybar and will post here for your review.

Thanks again!
Costa

 

[Costa]

And this is what I have in mind:

• Pump delivers 5000 L/hr (at 60% power, and considering the height of the DT)
• Pump is connected to spraybar through the main 25/30mm flexible tube
• Main tube branches off to 16/22 to be able to connect in-line atomizer

 

[Edvet]

I think there will be little flow through the flexible tube.

 

[Oldguy]

larger bore types"

Larger internal bore inline diffusers or atomizers. I have seen in three sizes, mine are the smaller standard one. Like you I buy from China. Often same products with different labels on them. Have you thought about pond pumps, less money than aquarium equipment.

Why have you reduced flow to the atomizer, why not plumb it straight in the green tube for maximum flow and run without orange the by-pass.

 

[foxfish]

I think it would be a lot more simple and more effective to place you Co2 directly in front of the sump pump.

 

[ian_m]

Main tube branches off to 16/22 to be able to connect in-line atomizer

You need a valve in the bypass so you can control the flow going via the CO2 loop, like as in Zeus's setup.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads...ps-ef2-with-venturi-fitted.43046/#post-461575

 

[Costa]

Why have you reduced flow to the atomizer, why not plumb it straight in the green tube for maximum flow and run without orange the by-pass.

I think it would be a lot more simple and more effective to place you Co2 directly in front of the sump pump.

Because there are no in-line atomizers for 25/30mm tubes. I am concerned that if add a reducer along the main (green) pipe it will impact overall flow rate. Or maybe not?

Edit:
I only just found out that the Jebao pump comes with a 16/22 adapter, in addition to the 25/30 adapter in use now.

Is it a good idea to use the 16/22 or is it going to reduce the flow?

Since the 16/22 tubing size is going to be available (either as main tube or branched off the main one), would you think a reactor (e.g. Sera's reactor 1000) might be better than an inline atomizer?

 

[foxfish]

Hi Costa, I don’t think you got what I was suggesting.
I mean you can place your Co2 line directory into the pump inlet.
You could use any type of atomiser if you want, just let the pump suck in the gas.

 

[Costa]

Hi Costa, I don’t think you got what I was suggesting.
I mean you can place your Co2 line directory into the pump inlet.
You could use any type of atomiser if you want, just let the pump suck in the gas.

Well I can connect a 16/22 tube in the pump's inlet and then mount the atomizer there,

...but the water will be sucked into the pump through the tube which will lie in the 3rd compartment of the sump. Is that acceptable?

I currently have the co2 line next to the pump motor, through a plastic grid on the inlet.

I've also read on these forums that the recommendation is to put any inline atomizers/reactors at the output of the pump/filter because it can otherwise damage the rotor or create a lot of air (the latter not being a problem with sump pumps I suppose).

 

[foxfish]

No connections necessary, just a cut down bottle.