• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Whats the secret to keeping Red plants Red ?

tubamanandy

tubamanandy

Member
Joined
28 Feb 2013
Messages
362
Location
Thornton, Lancashire
I'm using a good quality light, good substrate, stable CO2, weekly large water changes, god quality ferts but I can never seem to keep red plants red.

I've heard dosing additional Iron maybe the key or very high light.

Any ideas as I'm really not a newbie and its bugged me for a long time.
 
Well still class myself as a newbie to the hobby in lots of ways, but IME its

  • Light spectrum has a big impact some lights spectrum outputs the plants never look very red at all, recent visit to Green Aqua showed this massively comparing the Twinstar LED Lights, ATI T5 tubes and the Amazing ADA RGC LED Solar and that was with the same plants, talking to one of the guy there they did say when they swapped the lights over on different tanks there was an Instant change in the colours, so nothing to do with Nutrients of Light intensity which the plants respond to by changing their pigments. Also seen this myself by adding a Chichiros RGB LED light to my tank and /or changing T5 tubes from 6500K to growlux ones which have an increased red output
  • Light Intensity - been down this route myself but need to be careful that you have enough plant biomass or Algea/BBA results, increasing the intensity so more photons per sec makes red plants redder and the difference can be quite significant. Also same can be done by having the same plant closer to the surface OFC.
  • Light Duration ??? not sure about this maybe others have some experience
  • Nutrients no experience with this either as I dose EI in Excess, but have seen some amazing pics of plants which when slightly deficient in nutrients can look amazing eg Hygrophila pinnatifida
  • Plant specific OFC they way they respond to light and nutrients also
  • Pic or up close next to tank OFC but Green Aqua was more impressive next to the tank IMO most others I have seen look better in pics ESP My Tank :arghh:
 
This question used to be regular one on this forum, I can’t remember if there is one conclusive answer.
Tom Bars thread shows that he can grow many shades of red, so it is possible.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/dutch-something-or-the-other-120-gal.17797/page-33
I think optimum conditions including a minimum 30ppm of C02 would be a good start?
Perhaps a fishless tank with absolute maximum C02 levels (40ppm) might work?
Perhaps front and side lighting as well as from above might help?
 
Lower nitrate and higher phosphate and chelates is said to bring up the best colouring in plants. But I've never tried that myself
 
Always best to search forums via search engines like google, just add UKAPS to your question.
Iain Sutherland said:
You legend @foxfish I was trying to find that journal just a couple of days ago but failed!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
DSC_1868_copy.jpg
DSC_1868_copy_copy.jpg
 
Ed makes a good point, I've noticed the colour saturation on many images showing deep red plants has been cranked up to something approaching the max. It's sometimes easy to see because the other colours often look unnatural.

Other than that, everyone has their own theories that seem to work for them. High light and high conc of traces seemed to work for me.
 
Edvet said:
Don''t forget photo''s are usualy manipulated to enhace reds too, in real life lots of these don''t look that extreme.
Click to expand...

But the ADA RGB Solar LEDs are in a class of their own ATM IMO, seeing is believing :wideyed::wideyed::wideyed::wideyed:
 
Thanks for all of the replies - I think I've got decent lighting but I've a feeling it maybe something else as no trouble growing many green plants
 
In my limited experience, red plants get redder the nearer they get to the top of the water and therefore closer to the lights. This suggests light intensity is an important factor especially in deeper tanks. Have you tried 'A' shaped lamps as they give a cone of light and can be placed over a given plant. These lamps are available as 'Glowlux' types and as whites. Their footprints can be over lapped. A higher wattage white will give good colour rendering and will mask the red/blue colour of the 'Growlux' types. I am assuming other factors for plant growth are fine. On a side note males tend not to see reds as well as females, I refer to humans.
 
I have this alternanthera rosaefolia that was giving me a headache for months until I added extra iron. It's as happy as it could get now.
 
Tim Harrison said:
High light and high conc of traces seemed to work for me.
Click to expand...

I experience the same.. Quite some aqaurium plants have a red tendency if par values are met.. I experience this with aqaurium plants in the garden under the sun. For example Rotala indica turns deep dark red, Also see Bacopa sp. turns red in these conditions. Or Potamogeton gayi comes up red brown from the substrate up.

It also depends on the plant sp. and where it is grown. For example the Rotala indica under the sun, stays simply green when grown emersed and submersed it can turn deep dark red. But if you take a Lobelia cardinalis it does the oposite, emersed growth is deep dark red but grown submersed form it grows green. I'm far from the red plant expert, contrary actualy, i've grown very little red plants.. But doing some homework and choosing the correct sp. is a pre. We often get confused, since the majority of plants you see in the lfs are emersed form and sold with a lot of red.. But once transitioned to submersed form it reverts back to green. Example as given above with the Lobelia.. Not sure if the picture bellow is an acurate display or just misleading marketing, with placing an young emersed grow plant in aqaurium and take a picture.
81WqzewGaZL._SX569_.jpg


I've grown this plant submersed under the sun and never seen it turn red, not even this dark green. In my experience the bellow pic is a much more realistic display about what to expect.
lobelia-cardinalis.jpg


:)
 
Hi all,
Oldguy said:
In my limited experience, red plants get redder the nearer they get to the top of the water and therefore closer to the lights. This suggests light intensity is an important factor especially in deeper tanks.
Click to expand...
zozo said:
But once transitioned to submersed form it reverts back to green.
Click to expand...
Plants usually produce the red anthocyanin pigments in high light situations, mainly to protect their chlorophyll from damage by excess sunlight. This is from Gould, K. (2004) "Nature's Swiss Army Knife: The Diverse Protective Roles of Anthocyanins in Leaves." J. Biomed Biotechnol. 2004(5): pp.314–320
By absorbing high-energy quanta, anthocyanic cell vacuoles both protect chloroplasts from the photoinhibitory and photooxidative effects of strong light, and prevent the catabolism of photolabile defence compounds. Anthocyanins also mitigate photooxidative injury in leaves by efficiently scavenging free radicals and reactive oxygen species.
Click to expand...
I think @Oldguy & @zozo are right, because water is pretty effective at attenuating light, as you move away from the light source plants have less reason to become red.
Tim Harrison said:
High light and high conc of traces seemed to work for me.
Click to expand...
I don't know enough about the biosynthesis of anthocyanins to pass comment on which micro-elements may be effective, but it might be an iron (Fe) or copper (Cu) effect. Anthocyanins don't contain any iron (Fe) but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that high iron levels enhance red colouration in leaves, <"possibly by reducing PO4--- availability">.

If I was aiming to keep red plants red, I might try just lower nitrogen levels, purely because the anthocyanins are retained in the cell vacuole and if you have a lot of chlorophyll in the mesophyll layer it will mask the red pigments and the over-all appearance will be a dark green colour. The chlorophyll molecule contains four nitrogen atoms and <"leaf colour is a pretty good indicator of nitrogen content">.

six_panel_lcc-jpg.jpg


This works with Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum), where high light, slightly nutrient deprived, plants develop red "tiger stripes".

frogbit_stripes.jpg


You would have to balance plant growth and nutrient level (probably aim for "3" on the LCC chart above).

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
I don't know enough about the biosynthesis of anthocyanins to pass comment on which micro-elements may be effective, but it might be an iron (Fe) or copper (Cu) effect. Anthocyanins don't contain any iron (Fe) but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that high iron levels enhance red colouration in leaves, <"possibly by reducing PO4--- availability">.
Click to expand...

I once red anthocyanins are highly pH sensitive and that some plants lose color when pH rises or don't color at all if cultivated in high pH, that would be above 8 to 9. It wasn't fully explained it was more mentioned as a trivia for terrestrialy growing plants. I guess same goes for alkilne aqautic invironment.. It still could be partialy iron or copper related in this combination, since it seems e.g. iron is less available to plants in high pH invironment?.
 
Hi all,
zozo said:
I once red anthocyanins are highly pH sensitive and that some plants lose color when pH rises or don't color at all if cultivated in high pH, that would be above 8 to 9.
Click to expand...
That is true, but I don't know whether the plant can regulate the pH of the vacuole to change the colour displayed, or whether it is dependent upon external conditions, a bit of both would be my guess (but it would be a guess).

Rotala rotundifolia "Red" looks like a plant from naturally soft water that both shows iron deficiency symptoms fairly readily and shows a quick responce to nitrogen level. So it might be a good one to experiment with.

cheers Darrrel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top