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Overflow / Spray bar / Powerheads positioning

Filip Krupa

Filip Krupa

Member
Joined
13 Oct 2016
Messages
642
Location
Liverpool
Tank dimensions: 1700x1700x750mm

Plan is: the overflow, spray bars, and powerheads all on one wall. So that the sequence from the top of the wall is: overflow (800mm long and offset to one side), below that powerheads (3), below that spray bars (2 x 1500mm long). Powerheads and spray bars pointed towards the surface.

Without getting into the details of how strong the return pumps/powerheads are, will this setup work relatively well in principle?
My biggest worry is the % of the CO2 rich water from the spray bars, landing straight in the overflow.

Any comments appreciated!

Fil
 
Just my opinion..........

Why bother with the spraybars? This goes against everything I normally think but with a tank that big I'm not so sure a spraybar is your best answer and maybe simply relying on some well placed powerheads could work better.

I guess you could argue that doing away with a spraybar is just wasting flow but if you are to look at a reef aquarium then returns from a sump tend to just be an angled nozzle under the waterline and distribution of flow is primarily down to powerheads.
More so I also think a spraybar is more useful when used to create flow in a tank and just think that 1700 is a bit far for it to work and create a cycle.

Filip Krupa said:
Powerheads and spray bars pointed towards the surface.
Click to expand...
Any reason for this given the water will get oxygenated as it falls into the sump?

If you decide to go down the spraybar route any reason for 2? I assume you mean on top of each other if they are both 1500.

Powerheads can be moved all around the tank; changed direction, you can add more, take them away, increase/decrease power - there's different types for different jobs so possibilities are almost endless.
Have you a layout planned for the aquarium?

As I say just my opinion and thinking aloud!
Andrew
 
Spraybars can work but you will need powerfull pumps, to get the circular flow. I would experiment with 32mm pvc pipes and bore holes in that.
I would aim the CO2 rich water slightly downward, you will want to get the circular flow. If possible start with a bare tank to ascertain it better ( even with some food dye).
The volume you will have to pump around will be greater then the overflow volume to the sump
 
Food dye! Didnt think of that Edvet.

The 2 spray bars are to service 2 return pumps. The way I see it, the spray bars are there to mainly spread the co2 rich water evenly.
Its the powerheads that will provide most of the flow.

Ive a layout in mind. Nothing concrete yet,
But as you can see, plenty of space to work with :D
received_1145302338945644.jpeg
 
Looking good!
Just use your time to get everything dialed in perfectly, it will pay back. Take in consideration hardware and (hopefully lush) plantgrowth will block flow, so you will rarely have enough. The bean looks super:thumbup:
1)I would advise you to put some easily exchangeable foamblocks in the overflow to reduce 1) the amount of muck in your sump and 2) avoid fish getting in the sump, Just change them every week or so
2) realize it will be tough to reach everywhere to maintain the plants intensively ( been there, have the problem) so plan wisely;)
 
foxfish said:
That is an amazing tank :)
I think the way you scape the tank will influence the best flow arrangement, an island scape might be an option.
Click to expand...

Thanks m8
There is a video by the greenmachine on yt where they scaped a tank nearly the same dimensions as mine (theirs was a little smaller :D). Sponteneity they called it.
I like the look of that scape. If I can manage half the effect they did, I can die happy.

Not sure about about an island layout. I would like to show off how deep this thing is by leaving as much space open in the middle as possible. With some hardscape roughly in 3 corners, with the 4th corner clear as the main viewing angle. Again, similar to the greenmachines scape.
Also, my aquascaping skills are a bit lacking, and an island layout feels like advanced stuff! Would probably look amazing though...
 
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That is indeed a dream tank!!

Are you going to snorkel to clean it? [ Serious question ]
 
Edvet said:
I would advise you to put some easily exchangeable foamblocks in the overflow
Click to expand...
Have you not come across filter socks before Ed? - Surely the teeth of the weir would stop fish casualties?

Edvet said:
circular flow
Click to expand...
That was the descriptor I was looking for but wouldn't come to mind!

Edvet said:
Spraybars can work but you will need powerfull pumps
Click to expand...
I think the question here is can your weir keep up with this amount of flow?
If you've looked you will know there's countless options on how to rig it up with the 3 pipes.

Filip Krupa said:
The 2 spray bars are to service 2 return pumps. The way I see it, the spray bars are there to mainly spread the co2 rich water evenly.
Its the powerheads that will provide most of the flow.
Click to expand...
Isn't this kind of the same thing Filip?

I agree 100% with foxfish and suggested before that the arrangement will largely dictate flow required.

However I do still question if a spraybar is the right option and maybe you would be better off looking at the normal returns on an elbow under the waterline and if you do find a spraybar would be the best option then not a problem as @Zeus will tell you the Maxsepct Gyre is a powerhead which acts like a spraybar only you can adjust the power, angle, height, direction etc with ease and think this could be your best option if you go for a layout that wants a circular flow as Ed perfectly describes it.
 
Andrew Butler said:
I think the question here is can your weir keep up with this amount of flow?
Click to expand...

According to an online calculator, my weir should handle 10 litres of water per second.
Which is aprox 18x my tank volume per hour.
I would think thats plenty!
 
Filip Krupa said:
Im planning to use diving goggles + holding my breath if I must (seriously)

I believe Edvet's got some experience doing that :D
Click to expand...
Shikes. Yeah I cant think of other ways to have the finesse that will be required . Strategic planting will alleviate it.

Also look in to that robotic glass cleaner....
 
Filip Krupa said:
According to an online calculator, my weir should handle 10 litres of water per second.
Which is aprox 18x my tank volume per hour.
I would think thats plenty!
Click to expand...
I wouldn't set it up like that. I would do a separate setup for the CO2, with the spray bars and the heavy pumps, and have another for the overflow and sump wich handles maybe 1 or 2 tankvolumes per hour. I would think it would work better : not a huge volume through the sump, slower flow is better; and a separe setup to get flow optimal for CO2
 
Edvet said:
I wouldn't set it up like that. I would do a separate setup for the CO2, with the spray bars and the heavy pumps, and have another for the overflow and sump wich handles maybe 1 or 2 tankvolumes per hour. I would think it would work better : not a huge volume through the sump, slower flow is better; and a separe setup to get flow optimal for CO2
Click to expand...

The numbers quoted are maximum values. My actual flow will be much lower, aprox 2.5 litres per second.
Nevertheless, Ive two pumps connected to the sump. Need be, I can always dedicate one for the co2, as you suggest.
 
For CO2 tanks the "rule of thumb"is get about 10 times the volume of the tank in pump/filtercapacity ( this keeps overly enthousiastic manufacturer claims about pumpvolumes in mind:cool:)
But the best thing is : figure it out in detail while the tank is "empty".
 
Does anyone know whether the 10 times rule scales up like this? Does the ratio change with very large tanks?
 
The ten times rules is made to get optimal circulation in the tank. This has to be done in any CO2 tank ( to distribute CO2 to all parts of the tank, and to remove all waste metabolites the plants excrete). It will be harder in large tanks. With very good circulation i guess you could get away with far less then 10 times, but when ten times is adviced we err to the safe side. Sadly most often when there are problems ( plants don't lie or read manufacturers brochures) in CO2 enriched tanks CO2 levels and distribution are 99% of the times at fault.
In very large tanks ( believe me i know) the problems scale up with the size. I used two very large powerheads in my large tank ta get a decent distribution and never got it to my liking, if i haed to do it again i would make a supersized spraybar ( 32 mm pvc) with matching pump and flow
 
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