Why do my plants looks so bad

[Richardod]

Can someone please have a look at the pics I have posted, not the best sorry and tell me where I am going wrong.
What do I need to be looking at ?

Tank Trigon 190
filter JBL cristalprofi 1501 + two internal circulation pumps
Lights juwel heilux
Co2 injected about 4bps drop checker green

Ferts I have been using http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html

about 50% more than stated on their site

I thought I had everyhing covered but my plants are starting to look very poorly.

Yellowing,holes in them and black spots

any help appreciated

.

 

[Tim Harrison]

My guess would be poor CO2 implementation. Aim for lime green drop checker at lights on and all the way till lights off.

 

[wolfewill]

So you're adding 10ml per 50L, three times per week of the EI starter kit: That's 4 tspn of KNO3 into 500 ml, dosed at 40ml (please correct me if I'm wrong)? That works out to be a stock solution with 24 gms of KNO3 dosed at a rate of 40ml.... that's 24gm times 40/500 (ml/ml), which = 1.92 gms of KNO3 per dose into a 190L aquarium. This works out to a dosing rate of 6 ppm nitrate. Using the same method the phosphate dosing rate is in the 1.5 ppm range for PO4. EI strategy suggests starting out with 30 ppm KNO3, 2.5 to 3 ppm PO4, and dropping the dosing rates over time dependent upon algae issues. But I agree with Tim Harrison in that the CO2 may also be inadequate.

 

[Richardod]

My drop checker always is the same colour a lightish green, only changes to blue during a water change.

My stock solution is made up of the following

Macro Solution

• 6tsp Potassium Nitrate
• 2tsp Potassium Phosphate
• 9tsp Magnesium Sulphate
• 500ml Water
• 40ml dosed every other day three times a week

Micro Solution

• 2tsp Chelated Trace Elements
• 500ml Water
• 40ml dosed every other day three times a week

C02 is fed straight into the intake of the filter so to use it as a reactor.

CO2 on two hours before lights ramp up and off an hour before lights off.

 

[alto]

I don't know if Pavol Kulanda is a ukaps member but he did a rather nice video series for his Trigon 190 Aquasacpes


Trigon Island begins Feb 2016

Quick skim through comments:
Juwel filter (600l/h pump)
Juwel twin 28watt HOT5 with reflectors
CO2 Art system running with sodastream canisters (& whatever kit diffuser)

You might email Juwel about specific LEDs used in their Heliolux system - or perhaps technical details are on the box or light unit - I suspect substrate PAR is fairly low given the 60cm water column height

Looking back through your previous topics, you seem to be following the excess nutrient, high flow, loads of CO2, minimal light method for growing plants so likely others would provide better advice than me

My take:
your light is barely sufficient, especially at substrate level - I suspect Juwel has used 0.3 or 0.5 watt smd LED
you might reduce flow - high flow is not the same as good flow (check Tropica Inspiration Layouts with Juwel tanks to see what Juwel stock filters can do)
limit water column nutrients, especially if you've a nutrient rich substrate (Tropica aquarium soil I believe)

I'd tidy up all the plants, removing any damaged leaves, possibly trim & replant most stem plants IF active growing tips of at least 10cm, physically remove as much algae as possible (no idea what your hardscape is like)
50% daily water changes for next 1-2 weeks, always removing algae
Dose liquid carbon (as an algecide) after every water change - up to 3 times recommended dose (watch fish for signs of (low) oxygen stress) - dilute this in a cup of water before adding to tank
(not a pleasant experience for fish or shrimp to swim through a concentrated glutaraldehyde "blob")
Dose (limited) water column ferts after each water change

Depending on what your plants are like & degree of planting, add some fast growing stem plants

Tropica Supporting Plants

 

[alto]

Can you post a list of plant species?

Some look to be plants that do fine even with relatively low light, low CO2 ...

 

[sciencefiction]

Your plants look like mine when I don't dose a tank for a year, lol. There's definitely ferts issue going on as suggested by wolfewill. Plus as alto mentioned, flow distribution and light to be looked at. Flow wise, as a general rule all your outlets need to be blowing in exactly the same direction, parallel to each other. How are your current outlets positioned? This would affect the CO2 distribution although your issue is definitely not just CO2. CO2 and light deficiency have similar symptoms. The higher the CO2, the lower the light plants can tolerate...to an extent, and vice versa...So up one or the other, improve the flow and start dosing more.

The pin holes are often potassium. I get them on my hydrophila first as it's very sensitive to it and I don't tend to dose potassium very often at all. But there are other ferts issues in your the tank, although plants stop growing at the most limiting nutrient. As a start, I'd look into the flow set up and dose way more ferts over the next week. The new growth should improve tremendously. In a CO2 tank that could take days only or a week max. You can always dial down things after but to test, dose some extra stuff. Once you get some healthy tops, you can then replant them and discard the old growth as it will never improve. In the mean time, remove all those damaged leaves.

 

[Richardod]

I know Pavols videos very well, love his Trigon.

My plants are
Micranthemum 'Monte-Carlo
Anubias Nana 'Mini
Vesicularia Ferriei 'Weeping' Moss
Ludwigia Repens
Ludwigia Glandulosa
Pogostemon stellata
Hydrocotyle tripartita Japan
Ludwigia palustris
Staurogyne Repens

Lighting until info

Power 28 Watt
Kelvin 7200
Lumen 3500

I must admint I have no idea on how to set the optimum lighting profile for
Dawn
Sunrise
Sunset
Dusk
on the controller, I'm guessing to be honest.

Front of aquarium shown below so you can see where I have positioned the circulation pumps.

Outlet from filter directly at back of tank with water returned bt fishtail pointing directly to front of tank

 

[AndreiD]

The first picture in post # 1 is pleco damage, rest of the pictures are poor co2 uptake issue

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The first picture in post # 1 is pleco damage

I think that as well.

cheers Darrel

 

[Barbara Turner]

I would move the co2 drop checker to different places around the tank, (remember it will take a few hours to change)
I had two running in different places in the tank with very different values since then I've Improved my flow around the tank also changed to an inline co2 diffuser.

Although I'm sure I will get some criticism I would buy some JBL test kits and check various parameters, There never going to be the most accurate but if you follow the instructions religiously and repeat the test. They should give you a very rough indication.

Do you much see any new growth?

Do the brown spots on the leaves rub off, just wondering if they are some form of algae build up, I doubt the 50% extra ferts are doing you any favors.

One thing you haven't mentioned is water changes, try and change 50 - 75% once if not twice a week.

 

[Richardod]

Thanks for the replys very much appreciated.
Ok so
I don't have any pleco's in the tank
I'm not sure what more I can do to inprove the Co2, I run it straight into the intake if the filter so to use it as a reactor and I have two circulation pumps running they both facing towards the front of the tank the same direction as the water is returned into the tank from the filter.
I haven't moved the drop checker around the tank I will give it a go. The liquid is never a lime green more a very washy green almost clear infact. I have tried three different solutions and each is the same almost clear colour,the only noticeable change in colour I ever notice is during a waterchange when it turns blue.
I get lots of new growth ,I trim the plants regularly they just don't look as healthy as I would like
The brown spots do not rub off, I have tried using hydrogen peroxide on them .
I thought when using EI method you could dose as much as you liked and the plants will only take what they need
I change at least 50% water every week
I am also getting the sand I have at the front of the tank turning slightly green on top now.
Lighting is a big issue for me as I am not entirely sure how to program the day / night controller for optimum results and what intensity I should have the lights on at.

 

[ceg4048]

Lighting is a big issue for me as I am not entirely sure how to program the day / night controller for optimum results and what intensity I should have the lights on at.

Hi,
You simply have too much light and not enough CO2. When there was less plant mass it was OK but as the mass increases they demand more CO2 for that lighting level.

I am also getting the sand I have at the front of the tank turning slightly green on top now.

This is one of the key indicators. I suggest that you reduce the intensity to a maximum of about 20% and allow the plants to recover.

You can also try to increase your gas injection rate as well as turning the gas on earlier to get better saturation before the lights come on. Reducing your light intensity will solve the majority of the issues.
It is pointless to move the DC around as it will not tell you anything more that you can already see.
To get a more accurate indicator of the gas behavior, take a series of pH readings from gas on to lights out every hour or half hour and tabulate those numbers so we can see what's happening.

Cheers,

 

[Richardod]

Thanks as always Ceg.
Maybe if I had just a lights on and off without having to do a 24hr profile it might be easier but certainly not as nice.
I'll dial the Co2 up little by little then until the drop checker turns yellow or first signs of the fish stressing.
I will reduce the light intensity right down as you suggest.
What happens in a senario of too much co2 and not enough light ?

 

[alto]

Count the LEDs & easy to estimate whether 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 or 0.5 watt SMD's (emailing Juwel would provide rather more accurate information)
60cm water column height so depending on which SMD, substrate PAR range 8-22 (30 at best) - now decrease this to 20%


Pogostemon stellata Is the only high light, high CO2 demand plant on your list
Most are low demand CO2

Increasing, optimizing CO2 & flow are grand, but you're already running at (likely) half the PAR Pavel ran this same tank

 

[Richardod]

Thanks Alto,the lighting issue is realy confusing me I have no idea whatsoever about PAR range.
I'm beging to regret buying the helialux LED with day night controller, it's proving just too hard to set up correctly with Co2

 

[alto]

Start by just counting the # of LEDs
It's not uncommon to have 0.1w blue & 0.3w(etc) white, especially in if the blues are meant as moonlight profile
Does Juwel not have technical personnel that can be reached via phone/email (you may have to use some gentle persistence to get past reception & avoid the sales desk)?

I'm not convinced that your light controller has any negative impact on CO2
though I do prefer shorter sunrise,sunset ramps, especially if your tank is in an area with ambient light
- add some Rotala Vietnam H'ra to your tank, it's the best light indicator I've grown in terms of opening/closing its leaves

 

[Richardod]

Ok I'll order some Rotala Vietnam H'ra Aquarium gardens have it.

I turned the LED unit upside down and counted 108 white led's and 12 blue.

 

[ceg4048]

What happens in a senario of too much co2 and not enough light ?

It's very unlikely that this scenario will occur. May people fret over this possibility and really, it's a waste of energy. There are no plants that require high light. When the lighting is low then they simply will have slow growth, but this is a great way of reducing algae because algae prefer high light.

Maybe if I had just a lights on and off without having to do a 24hr profile it might be easier but certainly not as nice.

Yes, do this first and worry about nice later. The idea is to have a healthy tank. All this sunrise sunset stuff is just eye candy and the plants really don't care about that. You have time to figure it out but first figure out Flow/CO2 and ensure that you are not pumping too much light because that is much more important than this color or that color.

I'll dial the Co2 up little by little then until the drop checker turns yellow or first signs of the fish stressing.

This is not a good technique. As I mentioned, it's really best to measure the pH at intervals so that you have a better understanding of the behavior of the gas in relation to when the lights come on. Then you can make adjustments to the injection rate as well as the timing of the gas. That's actually much more important, so you need to understand this technique.

Cheers,

 

[Richardod]

This is not a good technique. As I mentioned, it's really best to measure the pH at intervals so that you have a better understanding of the behavior of the gas in relation to when the lights come on. Then you can make adjustments to the injection rate as well as the timing of the gas. That's actually much more important, so you need to understand this technique.

I have very hard water in my area, I have the I am injecting the Co2 at 5bps and I am only getting a very small change in PH before Gas on it is 7.3 after the gas being on for about 6 hours it has only dropped to 6.8.
My PH pen has just been calibrated so the readings should be accurate.