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Lightning questions for a new setup!

Fred13

Member
Joined
13 Jul 2016
Messages
321
Location
Athens
Hello,

I am planning to start a new tank 100 x 50 x 50 cm .

My substrate will be tropica planted growth with fine sand-gravel and i will inject co2 through inline diffuser from a 2kg bottle with a double regulator and an integrated solenoid. My filter would be Eheim professional 4+ 600.

I have 2 choices of lightning.
First , is 2 x 39 T5 HO, which equals to about 1,2w/g and about 19 loumens/liter (with arcadia bulbs) which seems low.

And second is a 4x39 T5 HO system with a combination of jbl and arcadia bulbs , with about 2,3-2,4w/g and 40lumens/liter

I am going to grow medium to advanced plants (such us hemianthus and rotala mancrada).

For me my best choice is the second but i would i like to have some feedback from you.

Finally, i would like to tell me what my photoperiod should be for the first month? Are 5 hours per day enough ?

Thank you very much!
 
You could buy the 4 bulb unit but make sure you can switch to 2 bulbs because that is probably all you will need.
I normally start with 6 hours a day but the lighting is the easy bit... just keep it low... concentrate of getting enough C02 to the plants.
My own method is to use a dry start with the plants for 4-6 weeks then get a real one point PH drop with 6 hours of light for anther 4-6 weeks.
By then you should have sorted out the flow & Co2 levels, then get some fish.... easy!
 
You could buy the 4 bulb unit but make sure you can switch to 2 bulbs because that is probably all you will need.
I normally start with 6 hours a day but the lighting is the easy bit... just keep it low... concentrate of getting enough C02 to the plants.
My own method is to use a dry start with the plants for 4-6 weeks then get a real one point PH drop with 6 hours of light for anther 4-6 weeks.
By then you should have sorted out the flow & Co2 levels, then get some fish.... easy!

Thank you so much!
Unfortunately i do not have the option to switch off any bulb. If i take the double bulb system both should be on , same for the four bulb.
It seems that 4 bulbs are more than enough but 2 bulbs are not even close to ''medium'' specs. But i am talking only for numbers..
Should i probably go for 5 hours per day to avoid any issues of high lightning?

As for co2 yes, i have small previous experience with it. I aim to reach 25-30ppm and keep it there. I used to have a 24hours co2 non-stop running but i found out that after several days and before the water change i had lots of co2 in the water even with a very good surface agitation.
Now , i am thinking of using a solenoid which it opens 3 hours before lights and close with them. Does this sounds good to you?

I will follow tropicas 90 days routine schedule with water changes etc etc..This is something i never tried before and i want to give it a go.

Thank you for your time!
 
Have you considered LED lighting, either commercial or homemade. The latter is much less costly than even T5, can give more output than the T5 HO, and gives more light per watt. You can also tune the light output if you get an adjustable current power supply. The commercial LEDs may be worth the extra cost if you want the build in timer, dimming, colours, and general sleeker and better build look. I use commercial for my living room tanks and DIY for my tank racks.
 
Is this chichiros a901 provides 8200 lumen?

Is this fine for me or i need 2?
 
well the specs are from the website for that model

A901 Plus :

  • Lamp dimension : W890 x D100 x H90mm
  • Luminous Flux: 14200lm.
  • Power consumption: 95W
  • LED: white, 285pcs.
  • For 90~110cm long tank.

So 70% more

Is luminous flux lumens ???
In their website it says that we dont recommend a dimmer for 901plus unit because of its size and it will get hot.
So if its 14200 lumens without dimmer i will probably have huge algae party!
 
If i go with T5 HO , which one? 2x39 w or 4x39 w?

250 liters , medium to advance plants.
 
The OP is strongly advised to stick with a 2 bulb T5 and to hone his plant growing skills using minimal lighting. Any Tropica plant can be grown using even a couple of T8 bulbs.
There are no plants that "require" high light. There are only plants that require high CO2.
Please review a recent similar thread on the subject: https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/sug...edium-and-high-on-200litre-fluval-roma.51468/

Also, Lumens do not grow plants. Plants respond to the parameter called Photosynthetically Active Radiation, or PAR for short. Do a search on the forum using this phrase for more information.

Here is a common summary chart we use as a guide:
The idea here, in the beginning, is to stay below the yellow region and if possible to stay below the pink area, into the blue zone.
This is one of the main techniques for avoiding algal blooms, especially at tank startup.
As you can see, the T5HO curve is in the yellow zone at 15 inches from the bulb surface. Of course the bulb will be located several inches from the water and so the PAR will be lower. The idea is to have about 40 PAR at the substrate. As you can see, it is very easy to violate this principle, even with two bulbs.

If you purchase a 4 bulb unit, ensure that each pair has their own ballast, so that you can deactivate two bulbs in the beginning. As your CO2 skill improve you will be able to achieve good growth rates without incurring algae, however, this is a long and winding road. You are advised to concentrate most of your efforts in achieving good flow, good distribution and good gas dissolution while using as little light as possible.

PARforVariousBulbs (1).jpg



Cheers,
 
The OP is strongly advised to stick with a 2 bulb T5 and to hone his plant growing skills using minimal lighting. Any Tropica plant can be grown using even a couple of T8 bulbs.
There are no plants that "require" high light. There are only plants that require high CO2.
Please review a recent similar thread on the subject: https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/sug...edium-and-high-on-200litre-fluval-roma.51468/

Also, Lumens do not grow plants. Plants respond to the parameter called Photosynthetically Active Radiation, or PAR for short. Do a search on the forum using this phrase for more information.

Here is a common summary chart we use as a guide:
The idea here, in the beginning, is to stay below the yellow region and if possible to stay below the pink area, into the blue zone.
This is one of the main techniques for avoiding algal blooms, especially at tank startup.
As you can see, the T5HO curve is in the yellow zone at 15 inches from the bulb surface. Of course the bulb will be located several inches from the water and so the PAR will be lower. The idea is to have about 40 PAR at the substrate. As you can see, it is very easy to violate this principle, even with two bulbs.

If you purchase a 4 bulb unit, ensure that each pair has their own ballast, so that you can deactivate two bulbs in the beginning. As your CO2 skill improve you will be able to achieve good growth rates without incurring algae, however, this is a long and winding road. You are advised to concentrate most of your efforts in achieving good flow, good distribution and good gas dissolution while using as little light as possible.

View attachment 111679


Cheers,

Couldn't be more helpful Ceg, thank you very much!

So if my distance from the substrate is about 23 inches , a double T5 HO setup will give me a PAR of about 100 micromols Single bulb PAR is about 50. A double T5 HO setup is in a high lightning range. If i am understanding this well..

Unfortunately this is hagens-fluval fixture which comes with good reflectors but as i remember you must use all bulbs for it to work.

So.. shall i purchase the 2x39 or the 4x39 and fade somehow the 2 bulbs? Is there any way to cover the 2 bulbs or reduce their intensity at least for the first month in order to have the advantage of using them afterwards? Maybe covering them with a black electrical tape from edge to edge? I dont if this works i am just saying. Window screen?
 
Last edited:
Watch with temperature: T5's get warm-hot.

Yes , i know they are quite hot.

So if i go with 4 t5 ho is the window screen a good option for the first month? After, i can remove it and see how things go.
 
Can you please post here a link from amazon with a window screen that will fit my needs? So i can dim the light for the beginning?

Thank you!
 
Hi Fred, Yes of course you can use lots of light, there are no planted tank police around here.
However you have been advised not to, both myself and Ceg, have told you that you will not need 4 bulbs to get obtain good strong growth... you 'do' need very good C02 distribution.
Yes you can obscure two bulbs by tuning the reflectors around or covering the bulbs somehow although that might be a waste of money but, would work!
You could run the two lights for two or three months and then experiment with four bulbs just to see for yourself.
On this forum there are thousands & thousands of post about people using to much light & getting into problems with algae, perhaps you should read a few of them.
It is obvious you want to get the four bulb unit so just get it :) it is Christmas.

Here is a tank l set up with two T5s (700 x 450 x 450) you can see some of the plants growing downwards away from the light & some growing in the shade under the log.

tank.jpg
 
Hi Fred, Yes of course you can use lots of light, there are no planted tank police around here.
However you have been advised not to, both myself and Ceg, have told you that you will not need 4 bulbs to get obtain good strong growth... you 'do' need very good C02 distribution.
Yes you can obscure two bulbs by tuning the reflectors around or covering the bulbs somehow although that might be a waste of money but, would work!
You could run the two lights for two or three months and then experiment with four bulbs just to see for yourself.
On this forum there are thousands & thousands of post about people using to much light & getting into problems with algae, perhaps you should read a few of them.
It is obvious you want to get the four bulb unit so just get it :) it is Christmas.

Here is a tank l set up with two T5s (700 x 450 x 450) you can see some of the plants growing downwards away from the light & some growing in the shade under the log.

View attachment 111680
I understand your points but i am little bit confused..

2x39 watts in 250 liters is about 0,3watt/liter which seems so low to grow cuba or rotala mancrada and other similar species. I know that this is and old fashion method to calculate light but i am getting more and more confused because 0,3w used to be Low lightning not even medium.

And if i count it with lumen is 18 loumen/liter which is also low lightning.

I dont have any problem going with 2 bulbs , i really dont want an algae problem. In my last setup i had a new tank syndrome with a filamentous algae which lasts until i gave up after hundreds of efforts. My speculation now is that if 2x39 t5 are not enough there is no comeback. I will have to throw fixture away and buy again...

Thank you for your time and your precious advises.
 
Hi Fred, it seems like you are waiting for someone to come along and recommend the four bulbs?
There are most definitely some folk who use mega watts very successfully, four or even six bulbs are possible!
However these people tend to be very experienced & have total understanding about how to match the C02 with the amount of light. So yes it is possible to have bright lighting & very healthy plants but it takes away any leeway based around maintenance & perfect C02.
Have you searched for a switchable 4 bulb unit?
 
4 tubes 92cm fitting here. Has two plugs so you can have 2 or 4 tubes on at a time.
https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/un...i-universal-4-tube-92cm.html?___store=default

And reflectors.
https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/reflectors/t5-reflectors.html

Even with two tubes (and reflectors) these are very bright and will quickly melt plants and grow algae unless you are 100% spot on with your CO2 whilst lights are on.

It took me months and months before I cracked CO2 delivery and distribution (hint 5200 litre/hour flow rate in 180litres !!) without melting and algae with 4 tubes.
 
So..all of you telling me that my best option is the 2 bulbs! Ok i will go for the 2x39 t5 Ho!

Btw let me inform you about my plants list.

Hc cuba
pogostemon helferi
ranunculus inundatus
alternanthera reinecki mini
rotala mancrada
proserpinaca palustris cuba
fissidens fontanus
riccardia moss
rotala bonsai
several other stems not much difficult

Those are for sure in my list! Depending these and your experience i want a clear yes or no if they thrive under 2 T5 HO in 65 gallons. Whatever you tell me i ll do. I respect and i believe in your experience much more than my thoughts.

As for filter i ll go with an eheim 4+ 600
for co2 is pressurized with a ph controller through a reactor.
 
Hi Fred, I can see you are worried abut not having enough light but what we are trying to tell you is that having too much light will cause you far more problems than having to little light.

Without doubt, getting enough C02 enriched water amongst all the plants & keeping everything clean is what really matters.

However if you feel you would like to try 4 tubes, then you should get them & see how it goes.

If you are confident you wont experience the same problems you had with your last tank & are prepared to carry out daily maintenance, get really good flow, get just the right amount of C02 without killing your fish... then of course you must go with your feeling & get the 4 bub unit.

If you find problems with algae then you will have to deal with the problem by upping your maintenance, carry out huge water changes, add floating plants or find another way to reduce the light.
We all love keeping plants & helping people out with their dream tank, if it works out we well, we will give you praise & if you get problems we will still be here to help you out.
 
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