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Planted tank sump design - need your feedback. :-)

Me personally i don't believe in UV except maybe in high fish-dense holding/breeding/grow-out systems. In our tanks i believe in healthy water and good food, these will boost health and promote disease resistance.
The airwands could help but i would prefer 1) a trickle filter if possible and 2) before the biological part, there the oxygen is needed most for the sump. If you wanted to add oxygen to the tank the wands would be most usefull near the returnpump
 
I would drop the UV to to be honest, The prob is your uv doesnt discriminate between the good guys and the bad, so you will be zapping alot of the good bacteria too.
For the sump i would go as said earlier socks then trickle/wet dry as well as superior bio filtration it would be near maintenance free and give high o2 levels.
The lower water level will also give more redundancy in the sump to if your pump fails.
Just how noisey it would be i dont know.
 
Hi
Was busy for some days and hence the late update.
Just a quick update on my situation.

The overflow box has arrived and the tank is waiting to be drilled.
I have gotten the necessary pvc plumbing parts and it was quite feat to gather them (photo below). Quite surprised that the parts were not that easy to get from on-line ( they don't ship to Singapore, or the shipping costs 3-5 times or more than the part itself) or from retail / specialist shops. The only part that I'm still looking for is 1 inch gate valves.

As for the sump, I have sourced designs from many freshwater and reef tank youtubes and forums posts.
I'll be starting a journal here very soon and will show the complete build of the display tank and sump as well.

Cheers :)
parts.jpg
 
A short update. Tha tank tank has been drilled and looks awesome with the overflow attached.
The main setback is fixing the pipes in place. What I had planned on paper is much different from the actual fixed pipes. Now all the pipes are dry fixed and once I'm satisfied, I'll do the actual gluing.

The best part was the sump. I had planned for a 30inch long but it came out to a 33 inch. It's not bad, I still have much space for my Co2 equipment and others.
Had wanted to fix the baffles by myself ( I love diy) but in the end, I decided to let the glass shop to all the fixing. My children were sitting for their exams and I didn't want the house reeking with the smell of curing silicon and disturb their studies.
Cheers.
 
Hi Zak, how is your sump going? I have designed one here : https://www.ukaps.org/forum/attachments/sump-idea-jpg.112666/ and wonder what your thoughts are on it based on how well yours works? I was trying to think of a good way to dissolve the co2 so this was my solution - are you seeing much co2 evaporation?

Hi,
Very impressive drawing! You go to great levels just to design your sump.:thumbup:

1.
I noticed that you plan to have PPI foam in 3 seperate chambers. - this I personally feel is an overkill.
Your flow might be slowed down dramatically and will be slowed down even further as the foam starts to collect bio film inside them.
Since you're planning to use filter sock, go for 200 micron filter sock. With 100 micron your water will be more clear but the downside is, the 100 micron filter sock will get clogged up fast. If you can spare the time and effort to change the filter sock every 2-3 days, 100 micron will be a good match. I'm using 200 micron as I can't spare the time for now to do the changes.

I'm even planning to use 300 micron sock when I'm out of town for more than 1 week. We don't want a clogged up filter sock and have dirty water overflowing in to the other compartments.

If in case any waste / leave matter manages to escape the filter sock (due to overflow from the clogged up filter sock), you can place some sponge blocks ( marked in yellow) in the chamber right after the filter sock. But even then it can half of what you've planned now.

2.
In the next chamber, use filter floss instead of foam. As filter floss is cheaper, you can simply toss them away when they become dirty and replace with a fresh and clean floss.

3. Have purigen and carbon as labeled in the graph below as they these need periodic replacement. Have the bio media at the bottom as they will hardly be touched. If you place the purigen/carbon, the bio media will have to be taken out everytime and this can be a messy and wet affair. :)

4.
Remove the steps in the next chamber as they can potentially slow down flow. Furthermore they can be be a hassle to clean. It will be difficult to reach the bottom of that chamber if in case you need to clean that area too.

5.
You certainly don't want Co2 diffusion at the bottom of the chamber as indicated in your drawing.
First, when it comes to replacement or cleaning of the ceramic co2 diffuser, it's can be troublesome, messy and very wet. You will have to take out everything that chamber. Running a sump is supposed to make things easier not more complicated and troublesome for us.
Have the diffuser next to the return pump where the water will be the cleanest. It'll be easier to troubleshoot co2 related issued ( co2 hose coming off loose / clogged up ceramic etc...). Visually monitoring of co2 diffusion will be easier.

6.
Make the baffle marked with yellow arrow lower than baffle marked A by 1 to 1.5 inch for smoother flow.

7.
Have at least 2 inch gap between baffles as marked. Easier to clean the bottom. More smoother flow.

8.
Make sure that all the baffles have at least 1 inch gap from the top of the tank. In a worst case scenario, if for some reason all the chambers do get blocked, water should still be able to flow to the last chamber where the return pump is. The added space would also be able to take the return water if water back flows from the return pipe into the sump. This might never happen but you never know. It's like insurance.

9.
If you haven't bought the return pump, go for a DC pump rather than a AC pump.
Get a DC pump that is slightly overrated ( example: if your current need is 1000 lph, go for higher output). DC pumps can be dialed back (better flow control) and the new models come with slow start ( not available with AC pumps).
With spare flow capacity from the pump available to you, you can upgrade to a Co2 reactor when the time comes, have more flow in your tank when you change your scape (less dead spot areas in tank)...the list goes on.

I'm sure the other members can chip in too.

BTW, what kind of overflow system are you planning...Herbie style...etc...?

PS. You can even remove the plastic bio balls and add more bio-media....just a thought. What do you think?

Keep us updated.
Take care :)

Sump-idea.jpg
 
There is a failure mode not covered in the above picture.

If the sock or other filter media blocks up the pump will lower the level in the final chamber exposing the heater. You need to put the heater in the first chamber, where it will never be dry or put a float valve in to stop the pump if water level in final chamber gets too low.

I also think you need the top of the baffles to be slightly lower to allow greater overflow if the filter media gets blocked.
 
There is a failure mode not covered in the above picture.

If the sock or other filter media blocks up the pump will lower the level in the final chamber exposing the heater. You need to put the heater in the first chamber, where it will never be dry or put a float valve in to stop the pump if water level in final chamber gets too low.

I also think you need the top of the baffles to be slightly lower to allow greater overflow if the filter media gets blocked.

Great point about the heater @ian_m :thumbup:
Haha...me living in a country where I never get to use a heater. I really missed that one completely.:lol:
@Something Fishy You can try having the heater laying on it side ( horizontally ) if the width of your sump permits it and for added safety, have the return pump raised by 1 inch above the width of the heater. In this way, there will always be water and the heater will be submerged. But as Ian_m, mentioned having the heater in the filter sock chamber is more safer.

As to your second point ian_m, I did mention it in point no 8.

Take Care.
 
Some great points guys, super appreciative of your inputs. I'll have another go on the diagram and reshare here. Thanks for the kudos though on the detail :) anyone would think I am a designer haha. Heater would fit flat and I like that idea Zak!

Would Co2 in the last chamber mix well enough? Would it be worth adding some bio balls in that last chamber in some way instead to act as a 'mixing' agent? I do have a Dennerle CO2 mixer you put on a pump, I mean I could use that too!
 
FYI :) I run a sump, lately i was in need of a new pump.. Went to the LFS and actualy ask for an Eheim. LFS adviced me against it and offered me an Eden pump.. Cheaper and dead sillent.. First i was sceptic, said yeah right, what esle would you say if you have no Eheim in your collection? o_O But i got a no good money back garanty and it comes with a 3 year factury warrenty. Tho most say also have some Eden heaters and these served me well already for several years.. Anyway took the chance, bought the Eden pump and it lives up to what is promissed, performes better than expected and indeed dead silent. Not a bad deal at all.. :thumbup: Eheim has some very serious competition here.. :)

http://www.edensrl.com/index.php?id=25
 
FYI :) I run a sump, lately i was in need of a new pump.. Went to the LFS and actualy ask for an Eheim. LFS adviced me against it and offered me an Eden pump.. Cheaper and dead sillent.. First i was sceptic, said yeah right, what esle would you say if you have no Eheim in your collection? o_O But i got a no good money back garanty and it comes with a 3 year factury warrenty. Tho most say also have some Eden heaters and these served me well already for several years.. Anyway took the chance, bought the Eden pump and it lives up to what is promissed, performes better than expected and indeed dead silent. Not a bad deal at all.. :thumbup: Eheim has some very serious competition here.. :)

http://www.edensrl.com/index.php?id=25

Nice one! Any in particular dude? I actually have a TMC V2 pump already but I will check it out, my pump isn't the quietest :/
 
Not at all jealous of you living in Singapore Zak! Love it there.

Boys, this is what I was thinking of as I have one already - recon it has a place in a sump? https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/co2-accessories/1107-dennerle-co2-cyclo-turbo-4001615030679.html

It can be used provided that your your tank size is not to big and you don't have co2 demanding plants or densely planted. IMO, I would go for a minimum of co2 ceramic diffusion method.
BTW what's your tank volume, type of scape you're planning? Would be great to know!

Take care. :)

PS. I had registered a blog under the same name as your username (Something Fishy) many years ago. I had wanted to start a blog on the fascinating world of planted tank but family matters don't permit the time.
 
Nice one! Any in particular dude? I actually have a TMC V2 pump already but I will check it out, my pump isn't the quietest :/

I have a very small sump on 110L tank, i took the Eden 128, 600 - 1150 l/h and 2m q/h.. Still a bit overpowered on max output. I'm about at 6 x turnover.. I payed € 27,-. E-heim equivalent Compact 1000 and Juwel 1000 are both with less head pressure and with 2 years less warranty. Both over € 40,-. :)

Having a sump i hear water splash in the drain a little, like i little idylic stream in the background. I actualy do not hear the pump over it.

No idea how the noise is with much more power. I gues more, so that beeing silent obviously would be relative to that as well. But they construct the impellers like this
rotore(11).jpg


Thicker shaft and better bearing and different blade design, than other less silent pumps i had.. :)
 
Haha love it - get the blog going dude!

Tanks are 22l Iwagumi style (tiny haha so want to get all the gear out of it and increase water volume amap!) and a 75l (desert ADA fairly heavy planted - java bogwood green etc) tank is the plan, and I have a 350l in the pipeline that was going to be marine but I think will be planted also like one I saw in Amano's book - two planted rock sections split in the middle with sand! Once I am happy my sump idea I will just copy and paste accordingly really!

Updated my sump based on comments, so first chamber is sock and heater flat on the bottom, with water that overflows, then all foams various PPI, then bio / other such as bamboo/carbon/purigen, and final one is much larger now to allow more fill and account for evaporation - and a CO2 reactor in there with a mini pump to mix and push into return pump.

I could seal with some sort of flexi rubber lid, or just lid the last chamber for the minimal gas loss?

How's that looking now fellas?
 

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Haha love it - get the blog going dude!

Tanks are 22l Iwagumi style (tiny haha so want to get all the gear out of it and increase water volume amap!) and a 75l (desert ADA fairly heavy planted - java bogwood green etc) tank is the plan, and I have a 350l in the pipeline that was going to be marine but I think will be planted also like one I saw in Amano's book - two planted rock sections split in the middle with sand! Once I am happy my sump idea I will just copy and paste accordingly really!

Updated my sump based on comments, so first chamber is sock and heater flat on the bottom, with water that overflows, then all foams various PPI, then bio / other such as bamboo/carbon/purigen, and final one is much larger now to allow more fill and account for evaporation - and a CO2 reactor in there with a mini pump to mix and push into return pump.

I could seal with some sort of flexi rubber lid, or just lid the last chamber for the minimal gas loss?

How's that looking now fellas?

Hi,
Awesome! 3 tanks!

I suppose the new sump will be for the 350L.

All the chambers in the updated design looks good and simple to maintain except for the 1st chamber with filter sock. If you want the water to be evenly heated before it moves on the the other chambers, it's best you have that chamber built like in your 1st drawing. See below pix.

According to the now updated design, water entering in the sump can just spill over to the bio media chamber resulting in uneven heating or none at all if the the filter sock overflows.

Also have the 1st baffle the same height as in your 1st drawing. This way untreated water will have only one way to flow to the other chambers and it must flow past the heater.

BTW, have you considered running 2 heaters rather than 1?
This way, the water had more surface area to come into contact with the heaters. Also running 2 heaters provides you with some form of backup (fall back) if one heater should break down. I haven't experienced this personally but have read that heaters tend to break down faster than any equipment in a tank.

Take care.

sump-2-updated modify.jpg
 
Thanks for that Zak :) You're a star. I have also had some input on plantedtank.net - Swiss Tropicals have been brought to my attention, and their idea of just using foams - so I may try that!

The sumps would be for all the tanks dude ideally, especially the 22l really to increase water vol!

The co2 pump mixing idea is working well, the Dennerle Turbo is proving a great shout!

Cheers
 
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