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Co2 and water agitation

Hi Roediger,
OK, thanks for the clarification. :crazy:
Yes, you have to be careful typing on the forum while at work. The boss will not appreciate that at all mate.
@Zeus I hope you're not typing at work! The world is in enough trouble as it is! :p

OK, based on those numbers it looks a lot more reasonable, as each dose provides nearly 7ppm NO3 and about 2ppm PO4. I don't really worry too much about the trace numbers. I just assume they are fine.

As far as your light being low, well, I mean, this is the goal. There are no plants that require high light. There are only plants that either do better in low light and plants that require high CO2.
You've been reading too many ideas written by Klingons. The only thing that high light does is it accelerates growth rates - but it also accelerates algae.
People use high light to grow the plants quickly, especially carpet plants, which are generally slow growing.
There is a lot of self imposed pressure by top aquascapers to get their tanks ready for competition, so they pummel their tanks with high light to mature the plants quickly.
Somehow, this practice has morphed into some kind of "requirement" for some plants to survive.
Another consequence of high light is that it damages the plant tissues so the plants produce certain pigment to combat the excessive energy.
These pigments often appear to us as being desirable, such as red or orange and so forth.
Again, this desire morphs into a "requirement" and when unsuspecting hobbyists or newbies follow this advice without paying attention to gas exchange and proper nutrition it often drives the tank over the cliff with all sorts of problems.

Looking at the latest photos you provided I don't see anything particularly wrong with health. I think you could trim the tall plants and replant the stems to get them more bushy. The more you trim the stems the bushier they get.
There are some tall stems that you have on the left in the front and that's not really good as it disrupts flow/distribution. I would move them to the back so that they hide that awful looking corrugated tube and other equipment.

You might also want to slide the spraybar across so that it is more central. if it is too far to the left or to the right the plants on that side will tend to do well while the plants to the opposite side may not do as well.

Also, be careful with the vertical positioning of the spraybar. Ensure that it is not too low, as that will tend to cause some of the flow ti squirt upwards when it hits the front glass - and we want as much of it as possible the flow downwards towards the carpet. having the spraybar just under the waters surface also provides the agitation you need. I don't know why agitation has become another Holy Grail. You just need enough to break up any surface film and to provide some gas exchange at night.

only place i seem to be getting algae are on the foreground plants, monte carlo and HC and s.repens
Well, I cannot see it on those photos because they are wide angle shots. We need to see close ups.
We need to identify exactly what the species is because the type of algae provides reliable clues as to what the cause it.
Generally, carpet plants suffer filamentous algae such as hair, They are also prone to diatomic algae as well and these all point to poor CO2, which could be a result of poor injection or poor flow/distribution or both.

Lets see what your pH profile tells us and we can go from there.

Cheers,
 
4 tsp of kno3, 1 tsp kh2po4 , 6 magnesium sulphate,
I dose 27ml , 3x a week. my micro mix is 1 tsp of plantex cbm

Which I think is about the standard mix which most EI starter kits use. Which when I ran it though a ferts calculator gives quite a Ferts mix at the lower end of the EI range. It may be worth considering increasing the EI dose then the extra NO3 PO4 will have their anti aglea properties working and you will know their will be no fert deficiency, you can always dial it back later.

No expert myself, but I am in the process of increasing my fert regime to maximise plant grow ensuring no fert deficiency as I can always dail back later if no improvement in plant health.

Heres some maths on ppms I have worked though

upload_2017-11-18_9-38-37.png


the figures on lower left are based on Clives article The Estimative Index (EI) Dosing with Dry Salts

which for making solutions gave the pmm with the calculator I used. Also Cilve did his Micros in two doses in article, I used three for same weekly target.

upload_2017-11-18_9-42-27.png


I use grams as use scales as then I dont lose count as I make up 2-3 liters at a time

Feel free to check the maths OFC. I used Rotall Butterflys Nutrient Dosing Calculator v1.5.91
I dont get to tied up in the being accurate in the weighing of the ferts to get at dead accurate just like to know what range I'm after, then seeing how/if the plants responded which takes time. After all DIY ferts are the smallest of the expenses with a high tech tank.

 
Thanks guys!

Tomorrow I will start to minitor injections since I am off. Also i can send close ups of my ground plants. And move the tall plants back to hide my ugly filter tube lol. Thanks for all your advice. I will experiment and increase the mix on ferts see if that will help max uptake
 
Which I think is about the standard mix which most EI starter kits use. Which when I ran it though a ferts calculator gives quite a Ferts mix at the lower end of the EI range. It may be worth considering increasing the EI dose then the extra NO3 PO4 will have their anti aglea properties working and you will know their will be no fert deficiency, you can always dial it back later.

No expert myself, but I am in the process of increasing my fert regime to maximise plant grow ensuring no fert deficiency as I can always dail back later if no improvement in plant health.

Heres some maths on ppms I have worked though

View attachment 111276

the figures on lower left are based on Clives article The Estimative Index (EI) Dosing with Dry Salts

which for making solutions gave the pmm with the calculator I used. Also Cilve did his Micros in two doses in article, I used three for same weekly target.

View attachment 111277

I use grams as use scales as then I dont lose count as I make up 2-3 liters at a time

Feel free to check the maths OFC. I used Rotall Butterflys Nutrient Dosing Calculator v1.5.91
I dont get to tied up in the being accurate in the weighing of the ferts to get at dead accurate just like to know what range I'm after, then seeing how/if the plants responded which takes time. After all DIY ferts are the smallest of the expenses with a high tech tank.

I forgot to mention :banghead: I did the maths for a 500l tank and dosing 100ml of macros and micros x3 a week
 
hello guys. just finished my WC on my 29 gal and have several pics for you to browse. while trimming saw a few leaves on my rotala and noticed some falling off and also this yellow one. two ground plants are montecarlo and HC,

Thank you.
 

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Yes, well that first image shows two tufts of BBA in the rear and maybe GSA on the far left. These are of course, CO2 related. As mention a few posts ago the amount of light that you are using at the moment drives a CO2 demand that you are not satisfying, so there is more work to do and you should disable one of your T5 buls while you sort this out. I suggest that you try to supplement your CO2 with liquid carbon for now. BBA indicates serious trouble and is a very difficult problem to solve.

Also try to remove some of your filter media if it is filled to the brim. That will help you to get more flow.

Cheers,
 
Hello,

Thanks for reading my post. The pictures are from my 29 gal which have a planted plus 24/7 light. I did lower the light after one of your posts. The light low enough that i am not getting algae on my anubias or s.repens anymore =) . I have been reading other posts about using excel. So i went ahead and purchased 500ml bottle.

My t5 lighting is in this tank which i am also balanding out
 

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what about the yellow leaves in one of the pics? is that co2 or ferts?

I also got some ph readings!

before co2 on ,PH- 7.4 at 3pm

co2 on for 1hr PH 6.6 4pm

co2 2hr PH 6.0.

If i went by the chart for kh & PH I should have high co2 in teh reds.

KH was 6 drops before solution turned yellow at 5pm
 
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Hi Roediger,
Hmm, the plot thickens as now I'm not sure which tank we are talking about. In any case, I'm not seeing any yellowing in any of the photos shown in your post #25. I see one photo with a finger in it and that seems as if it's pale because of it's translucency. Yellowing is always a nutrient issue, but that one leaf on the finger, as far as what I can tell from the photo, has some kind of CO2 related algae surrounding it's edges and appears to be translucent, which is a CO2 issue.

The bottom line is that if you are dosing EI levels of nutrients and if you suffer nutrient related issues then it tells you immediately that you have a flow/distribution problem as you really should never need any more than the standard EI dosing level. The flow/distribution problem will also show up as a CO2 related fault.

I don't think having light 24 hours per day 7 days a week is a good idea at all, but I'm not sure if I've misinterpreted "planted plus 24/7". maybe that's a brand name?

Couriouser and couriouser...:crazy:

Cheers,
 
hehe sorry for the confusion. we are talking about the tank with co2 problems and nutrient. the lights is called 24/7 but i dont use that feature. lights are on 7hrs a day. thanks for looking at the yellow plant. it does look clear, inside the water looked yellow. I have an inline diffuser, does it matter which way i face the tubing?, it's attached to the tube that directs water back to the tank. I cut the tube as close as possible to the filter so it can get a few more seconds to mix before heading out to tank.

Also found a leak in one pipe thread. Idk why they dont use tape or dope on fittings..

Also for distribution i was able to find more suction cups and place it under the top layer of water
 

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Hi mate,
It shouldn't matter which way the tubing faces. It's not clear to me which side of the filter the diffuser is on. Normally, I like to have the diffuser output go into the filter inlet, but this can cause problems as the diffuser get more easily clogged with dirt when it's on the input side. This is not a big deal if the diffuser is easy to clean. The advantage is that it has more time to mix going into the filter and out to the tank. This also has the advantage of reducing the amount of visible bubbles. The disadvantage is that the gas can sometimes buildup inside the filter and cause rattling.

Yeah, it is the usual practice to use pipe tape, not sure why that would have missed that...

before co2 on ,PH- 7.4 at 3pm

co2 on for 1hr PH 6.6 4pm

co2 2hr PH 6.0

OK, this looks good.

If i went by the chart for kh & PH I should have high co2 in teh reds.
Forget about what the chart says. It is not really applicable.

KH was 6 drops before solution turned yellow at 5pm
Don't really understand what this means. I assume that your measured KH is not zero. If so then the pH numbers are more or less accurate enough.

Cheers,
 
I had my CO2 pre filter with my Fluval FX6 and it could only handle a limited CO2 injection rate, then it would burp and split large CO2 bubbles out. So I went for a reactor post filter and tank is bubble free except for pearling. Details and vids of reactors here mine is an over complicated setup in some ways. But was put on to the APS EF external filters as reactors from other very helpful members, which can be much simplified, if you do go down the APS EF reactor route you dont need the BIO Balls there are other cheaper options which work just as well.
 
The reefers replace the stock impellers with Needle Wheel Impellers for use in their skimmers. These do a much better job of chopping up the bubbles and avoiding the burping/misting. There are lots of different designs, but of course the problem is finding one that's compatible with your particular filter model...

Cheers,
 
I had my CO2 pre filter with my Fluval FX6 and it could only handle a limited CO2 injection rate, then it would burp and split large CO2 bubbles out. So I went for a reactor post filter and tank is bubble free except for pearling. Details and vids of reactors here mine is an over complicated setup in some ways. But was put on to the APS EF external filters as reactors from other very helpful members, which can be much simplified, if you do go down the APS EF reactor route you dont need the BIO Balls there are other cheaper options which work just as well.
Yes! This is whats happening to me after a certain psi it starts spitting out big bubbles and they go up asap
 
Hi mate,
It shouldn't matter which way the tubing faces. It's not clear to me which side of the filter the diffuser is on. Normally, I like to have the diffuser output go into the filter inlet, but this can cause problems as the diffuser get more easily clogged with dirt when it's on the input side. This is not a big deal if the diffuser is easy to clean. The advantage is that it has more time to mix going into the filter and out to the tank. This also has the advantage of reducing the amount of visible bubbles. The disadvantage is that the gas can sometimes buildup inside the filter and cause rattling.

Yeah, it is the usual practice to use pipe tape, not sure why that would have missed that...



OK, this looks good.


Forget about what the chart says. It is not really applicable.


Don't really understand what this means. I assume that your measured KH is not zero. If so then the pH numbers are more or less accurate enough.

Cheers,

Ok glad to see o got the co2 part right. My doffuser is on the inline tubing side.

Now i have to figure out best position. Some reason i cant post vids of my flow
 
You can only post video links to Youtube, facebook and I believe Vimeo and a couple of other sites.

Cheers,
 
heres my video of my water flow let me. tell me what you think

 
Hi mate,
It shouldn't matter which way the tubing faces. It's not clear to me which side of the filter the diffuser is on. Normally, I like to have the diffuser output go into the filter inlet, but this can cause problems as the diffuser get more easily clogged with dirt when it's on the input side. This is not a big deal if the diffuser is easy to clean. The advantage is that it has more time to mix going into the filter and out to the tank. This also has the advantage of reducing the amount of visible bubbles. The disadvantage is that the gas can sometimes buildup inside the filter and cause rattling.

Yeah, it is the usual practice to use pipe tape, not sure why that would have missed that...



OK, this looks good.


Forget about what the chart says. It is not really applicable.


Don't really understand what this means. I assume that your measured KH is not zero. If so then the pH numbers are more or less accurate enough.

Cheers,
Is there a prefered method when to use excel? Beginning middle or end of the day ?
 
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