All the gear no idea...

[AquaSam]

Hi, i'm a long time lurker and first time poster.
Firstly wanted to say thank you to the UKAPS and all the members on here who have provided a vast amount of information and experience, my aquascaping obsession has taken hold and am looking to start my first high tech set up.

Ive kept a few low tech fish tanks, and spent the last few weeks on this forum and youtube trying to educate myself on high tech planted tanks, but before I part with my cash and become someone with all the gear and no idea, I wanted to get some advice on the set up i'm going for:

Juwel RIO 180, internal filter removed, standard T5 lighting
Eheim classic 2215 filter
Pressurised CO2 with an inline diffuser
ADA Amazonia substrate
Dose with Seachem Flourish

Want to plant a HC cuba carpet, Rotala Wallichi and lots of Rotundifolia. And eventually stock with a school of Tetras and Shrimps

Is the standard T5 lighting on the RIO going to be good enough to grow the HC carpet and get the red hue from the Wallichi?
Is the Eheim 2215 good enough for the job?
I like the clean look tanks, which is why I wanted to go for an inline CO2 diffuser, seems to be some discussion wether the diffuser should be on the intake line or outflow line of the filter?

Final question.... dry start method!? As a first timer, is this something I should attempt or do the risks outweigh the benefits?

Many Thanks

 

[Zeus.]

Hi Sam

Is the standard T5 lighting on the RIO going to be good enough to grow the HC carpet

Unlikely- will probably need some more t5 tubes

Eheim classic 2215 filter

Turnover 620L/H for 180 litre tank. generally folk aim for x10 ratio, so for 180L tank aim for 1800L/H. doesn't matter if its the filter or powerheads etc its the combine flow that counts. Also need to think about amount of biomedia you may need and can fit in the filter

Pressurised CO2 with an inline diffuser

Great start.

ADA Amazonia substrate

Great again

Dose with Seachem Flourish

Flourish is a low tech fert going for high tech better of with EI Ferts its the cheapest of the High tech ferts

should be on the intake line or outflow line of the filter?

either pros and cons to both.

dry start method!? As a first timer, is this something I should attempt or do the risks outweigh the benefits?

For first timer DSM ideal IMO, did DSM as first timer myself its so easy but need little patience

I like the clean look tanks

worth considering the Hydor inline heaters then heater out of sight too.

 

[greenmac75]

If light is an issue maybe look at monte carlo as a replacement for hc cuba

 

[alto]

It's well worth watching the Juwel Tutorial videos to get a feel for what's possible with stock equipment on these aquariums, I've linked the Rio 180 but encourage you watch the entire series

Rio 180
- note 2 x T5 with reflectors (HOT5 tubes will give you significantly more light intensity than standard T5, they needn't be aquarium shop branded but look at the color temp & energy details & spectra )

Aquarium flow - needs to "good" which is not the same as 10 X turnover
- I'm still confused how this came to be planted tank dogma certainly not from Takashi Amano tanks

If you compare Eheim Classic filters with the Professional series, one major difference is the pump's ability to maintain flowrate against back pressure (any inline heater, CO2 reactor etc will add significant back pressure), on the Rio 180 I'd be inclined to go with the Classic 600 (1000 litre/h) or 2 x 2215 or Pro 4 350, the add in a power head as needed
Flow around the aquarium is greatly affected by hardscape, so check actual flow once you've scaped the tank
If plant growth becomes dense, this can also adjust flow patterns (though pump flowrate is unchanged)

When HC growth is less than stellar, it's easy to blame (poor) flow, (poor) CO2 distribution etc - until you see a tank with fantastic HC & lousy filter & CO2 that ran out weeks ago .....
that's why this plant is rated "advanced" by Tropica & MC is "medium" - sometimes meeting all the "expected" parameters still leaves you with "something's missing" growth

Some peoples do dry starts (emerse growth) & everything seems perfectly straightforward & then flood the tank & everything goes fantastic with plants barely missing a beat as they transition to submerse growth - other people struggle with complications at each stage, so do some reading on the technique

You've chosen 2 "advanced" plants for your first real planted tank project - which may work out great - but I'd suggest beginning with more tolerant plants, though if you've the time & inclination & "eye" for daily plant/tank attention/maintenance that tilts the balance in your favour

Be prepared for ADA Amazonia, you need to be able to do those 50 - 90% water changes daily in the first weeks
Tropica Aquarium Soil Powder is much easier to work with

There are some very nice (& detailed) journals on ukaps done with these & other aquarium soils

 

[Zeus.]

Be prepared for ADA Amazonia, you need to be able to do those 50 - 90% water changes daily in the first weeks

If you decide on a DSM, the WC are not needed as much as AS will already be cycled. I just did a couple of big ones then went to 50% weekly

 

[Andy Thurston]

Yes hc can be grown with juwel t5's have a look at my mates journal ignore the first page though
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/juwel-180-first-planted-tank.28178/page-2

You will need better fertilisers though

 

[AquaSam]

Thanks for the feedback,

Turnover 620L/H for 180 litre tank. generally folk aim for x10 ratio, so for 180L tank aim for 1800L/H

Completely overlooked the flow rate! Ill look at getting something with a higher flow rate, although my budget (or the budget the wife has allowed me) might not stretch to a filter that can give me 10 x 180L.

If light is an issue maybe look at monte carlo as a replacement for hc cuba

Going to start with the stock T5's and ill put some reflectors on so ill plant MC if its better under lower light.

It's well worth watching the Juwel Tutorial videos to get a feel for what's possible with stock equipment on these aquariums

Ive had a look at the Juwel videos, im going to try for a iwagumi scape but with a more planting than is probably traditional, something like below but with a larger sand area and less height with the substrate. Realistically achievable? (The equipment that is, my aquascaping skills may let me down anyway.)

 

[alto]

Juwel has done some outstanding scapes - including Iwagumi style - for their Interzoo booths: like Tropica they grow the scape in & then transport & do any small touch ups needed
The scapes are done using Juwel standard/optional accessories (except CO2 equipment), as I recall the most common accessory is additional lighting, reflectors

If you choose a large sand area, be sure to be include fast growing stem plants while establishing the tank - if you look at how ADA or Tropica or Juwel etc start tanks, they are always heavily planted from the beginning
There are some plants that prefer established tank conditions, these are usually added in later and some of the auxiliary plants are removed

 

[Franks]

I run a 2 ft deep tank off 2 24w T5HO 6500k tubes running 6 hours per day. I also time a 11w IP rated outdoor LED flood light which is also 6500k for 3 hours in the middle of the photoperiod. My plants grow amazing in this setup but I've since removed my Walichii as I didn't like it and wanted a change. £5 for the lamp.

I use a full dry fert mix 'Lush max' which contains about a years worth of fert. Also £5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AquaSam]

Thanks again for the input,
I got my White RIO 180 and stand delivered yesterday, looks great and the wife approves its presence in the dining room.

Ive removed the internal filter (was very easy to do) and i'm going to soon place an order for my external filter - decided on a JBL cristalprofi e1501 (1400l/hr flow rate), and my pressurised CO2 setup with a JBL inline diffuser. After reading about dry ferts and EI dosing ive decided to do that as well, was going to order aquarium plants foods EI starter kit, but will also look at that 'lush max'.

I mentioned before I really like the clean look, so i'm going to want to eventually replace the JBL's black inflow and outflow once i'm happy with the flow in the tank. Lily pipes are an obvious choice but I've got a question on placement which google and a UKAPS search cant find a answer too....

They are always placed on the side of the tank, leaving the pipes on show down that side. The RIO has a hood so pipes need to run up the back of the tank meaning the lily will face the front glass rather than across. Is this a no-no when it comes to lily pipes? A spray bar faces the front glass so confused as to wether a lily can do the same?

 

[alto]

I've Eheim filters & just run the stock spray bars (too many tanks to invest in glass which I'd likely break with shocking regularity) - it's very easy to run the hose tubing up the back of the tank but set the spray bar so flow is down the length of the tank
Given Rio 180 dimensions of 101cm length & 41cm width, I suspect you'd want a couple of lily pipes or add a power head to help direct flow - play with placement & flow with just water in a bare tank - add food colouring to watch flow or any coloured aquarium med or try with crushed flake food (dyes are easier to monitor)
I'd run the filter empty as well so nothing can pick up the dye

That jbl filter lists a decent flowrate but tends to measure rather less when installed in the tank (even without inline heaters etc) - likely jbl is listing flow for the pump based upon it running in a bucket rather than installed into a running filter

 

[HiNtZ]

If light is an issue maybe look at monte carlo as a replacement for hc cuba

Good shout - I have loads here. He can have a chunk of that.

 

[AquaSam]

He can have a chunk of that

Thanks for the offer, currently an expat in Dubai though so don't think it will survive the trip from the UK!

My plan to dose EI ferts has backfired, Potassium Nitrate isn't allowed to be sold to individuals in Dubai, its also not allowed to be transported by air so cant get it on a trip back to the UK either. So looks like i'm going to have to dose Seachem as advised by every LFS I've been to here.

After a bit of research it seems I need to dose:
Macros -
Seachem Potassium
Seachem Nitrogen
Seachem Phosphorus
Micros -
Flourish Comp

I dont think Excel is needed as im going to run CO2, unless I get an algae problem then ill dose it.

Guys/girls that dose Seachem, do you follow the bottle amounts or do you need to Dose more (it does seem far less than EI, but I understand EI is an 'overdose' so your guaranteed never to be short on nutrients.

Would rather dose dry ferts but unless another UKAPS member is in Dubai and has found a workaround to the KNO3 ban, looks like i'm stuck using the expensive stuff...

 

[HiNtZ]

Ahh that sucks - I'd be interested to know your water parameters there though. Don't they use seawater through RO or something? I wonder if they remineralise to an extent for the health of the consumers? I have many questions!!

As for no KNO3 - I'm surprised they still sell it here after all the terrorism problems! I've bought a stockpile of 20kg which will last me the rest of my life just in case. Obviously the restrictions on KNO3 are as usual ridiculous and unwarranted. If bad people want to make it, they will..... ammonium nitrate and potassium chloride is one way, so see if you can obtain those there? Or, lots of wee wee, some organic material and a shed load of time to make your own from scratch.

If you want to keep costs down on your micro dosing, see if there aren't any restrictions on chelated trace mixes - will save you a bomb! (with hindsight, that's probably not the best word to use!)

P.s When I was using EasyLife Profito I was dosing just over 1.5x the recommended dose with supplementary iron on the same days (about 0.4ppm). The rest was your standard EI salts NPK (and GH booster).

Be sure to check out EasyLife Nitro - that might be allowed as it is in liquid form and gives you a little potassium too.

 

[sparkyweasel]

20kg! you're probably on somebody's watch list now,