AverageWhiteBloke
Member
Had reason to take a close look at my tank, sort of stand back and take an objective look, something is wrong. So anyway thought I'd get back to basics and look at my dosing. E.I, although the reason we see a lot of the brilliant scapes seen in here and a way to let the novice with high lights keep on top of their dosing regime so I can't take anything away from the concept, however, I'm not surprised an early adopter or the OCD among us who just wants a baseline figure to start with gets so confused.
Over time the original Tom Barr recipe seems to have been lost in translation through various calculators and sites and a lot of the original ones' Wets, Petalphile etc the sites seem to be down now leaving 2 or 3 options available. I think it's time for a definitive calculator for the OCD that works in grams. Most of these calculators appear to be out to the tune of about a third depending on which one you used last. Ok granted it's by no means exact science and was never intended to be so but it would be nice just to have one baseline figure. Which calculators do you use?
So, coming back to my own particular problem. Can someone clear this up for me regarding PO4 dosing and where I've possibly made a school boy error
I generally just use James planted tank Calculator for easiness. You have more control over the doses rather than getting told on one of the others but I think I may have been under dosing PO4 for some time. Putting the vague teaspoons aside.
Looking at UKAPS EI Page it advocates the following...
Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week
But then we got to another Calc and it has the following...
So all ready we've went from 20ppm to 30ppm (The third out I was talking about) Fair enough its a range so 20ppm through 30ppm is what we're on about but for the OCD is it one or the other? Also notice that it says 6.7ppm Nitrogen and 30ppm NO3. The starter is going to be looking for 3x6.7=20.1ppm doses and see that it doesn't add up to 30ppm I just think it needs clarification that 30ppm NO3 equates to 20ppm N. So in my earlier bit with the UKAPS version are we dealing in no3 dosing or n dosing? Which would explain the 20ppm.
Coming back to PO4, firstly we have UKAPS dosing at 1ppm 3x week 3ppm weekly, going back to other calcs we see 3ppm dosed 3x again P=2.9 ppm while PO4 =9ppm weekly. See where I'm coming from? It needs clarification on whether we're dealing with P or PO4, N or NO3.
In my instance according to the James calc I have been using for 100 ltr tank 30 grams of KNO3 in 500ml bottle dosed @ 20ml results in 7.36 ppm Nitrate putting you in the 20ppm bracket from UKAPS but that doesn't appear to be the case because again the result is one third out. Same goes for PO4.
I just think it needs pointed out the difference between the two when dealing with these calcs that the aim is to get...
30ppm of NO3 to achieve 20ppm of N
9ppm of PO4 to achieve 3ppm of P
Just don't think it would do any harm to clarify which we're dealing with is all I'm saying.
In my situation I've used James and find myself possibly dosing low when I think about it.
The two results are.
James PT
30 Grams KNO3 in 500ml bottle 20ml=7.36ppm dose 3x 20ppm weekly (clearly means N not NO3)
4 Grams PO4 in 500ml bottle 20ml =1.12ppm 3x 3.36ppm weekly (clearly means P not PO4)
Aquarium Calc
39 Grams KNO3 in 500ml bottle 20ml= 6.7ppm 3x 30ppm weekly (flip flops from N to NO3)
11 Grams PO4 in 500ml bottle 20ml= 2.9ppm 3x 9ppm weekly (flip flops from P to PO4)
That's before we even get onto Rotala Butterfly which then says...
"To reach your target of 1.3ppm PO4 you will need to add 5.96 grams (equivalent to 1 tsp + 1/8 tsp + 1/16 tsp ) of K2HPO4 to your 500mL dosing container. Add 20mL of that mix to your 100L aquarium to yield:
Element ppm/degree
PO4 1.3
P 0.42
K 1.07"
Then throws more confusion into the mix by saying dose 2 or 4 times per week! Is it two or is it 4, ones double the other. To the novice, no definite answer there without knowing the correlation between PO4 an P.
The reason I haven't used teaspoons is this just throws more unneeded ambiguity into the mix. For instance I used my scales to do an average of of 10x1/8th levelled teaspoons of pot sulph when looking at my K. Now according to James again..
"1/8th tspoon results in 2.86ppm of K"
Going off my average an 1/8th tspoon of pot sulphate is actually 1.09grams so would result in 4.89ppm of K
Then goes to say..
Using Dry Powders
40-80 litres
1/8 tsp KNO3
1/32 tsp KH2PO4
1/32 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
80-150 litres
1/4 tsp KNO3
1/16 tsp KH2PO4
1/16 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
150-225 litres
1/2 tsp KNO3
1/8 tsp KH2PO4
1/8 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
225-350 litres
3/4 tsp KNO3
3/16 tsp KH2PO4
1/4 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
350-500 litres
1 1/2 tsp KNO3
1/2 tsp KH2PO4
1/2 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
With tank size differences of at times 100 ltrs, again raising questions of which tank am I. I guess I'm just saying it doesn't surprise me that something that was designed to be a simple method of dosing ferts in the tank raises so many questions in the forum through different translations, lack of uniformity, ambiguity and lack of clarification on whether we're dealing with NO3 or N or PO4 and P IMO.
Just saying.
Over time the original Tom Barr recipe seems to have been lost in translation through various calculators and sites and a lot of the original ones' Wets, Petalphile etc the sites seem to be down now leaving 2 or 3 options available. I think it's time for a definitive calculator for the OCD that works in grams. Most of these calculators appear to be out to the tune of about a third depending on which one you used last. Ok granted it's by no means exact science and was never intended to be so but it would be nice just to have one baseline figure. Which calculators do you use?
So, coming back to my own particular problem. Can someone clear this up for me regarding PO4 dosing and where I've possibly made a school boy error
I generally just use James planted tank Calculator for easiness. You have more control over the doses rather than getting told on one of the others but I think I may have been under dosing PO4 for some time. Putting the vague teaspoons aside.
Looking at UKAPS EI Page it advocates the following...
Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week
But then we got to another Calc and it has the following...
So all ready we've went from 20ppm to 30ppm (The third out I was talking about) Fair enough its a range so 20ppm through 30ppm is what we're on about but for the OCD is it one or the other? Also notice that it says 6.7ppm Nitrogen and 30ppm NO3. The starter is going to be looking for 3x6.7=20.1ppm doses and see that it doesn't add up to 30ppm I just think it needs clarification that 30ppm NO3 equates to 20ppm N. So in my earlier bit with the UKAPS version are we dealing in no3 dosing or n dosing? Which would explain the 20ppm.
Coming back to PO4, firstly we have UKAPS dosing at 1ppm 3x week 3ppm weekly, going back to other calcs we see 3ppm dosed 3x again P=2.9 ppm while PO4 =9ppm weekly. See where I'm coming from? It needs clarification on whether we're dealing with P or PO4, N or NO3.
In my instance according to the James calc I have been using for 100 ltr tank 30 grams of KNO3 in 500ml bottle dosed @ 20ml results in 7.36 ppm Nitrate putting you in the 20ppm bracket from UKAPS but that doesn't appear to be the case because again the result is one third out. Same goes for PO4.
I just think it needs pointed out the difference between the two when dealing with these calcs that the aim is to get...
30ppm of NO3 to achieve 20ppm of N
9ppm of PO4 to achieve 3ppm of P
Just don't think it would do any harm to clarify which we're dealing with is all I'm saying.
In my situation I've used James and find myself possibly dosing low when I think about it.
The two results are.
James PT
30 Grams KNO3 in 500ml bottle 20ml=7.36ppm dose 3x 20ppm weekly (clearly means N not NO3)
4 Grams PO4 in 500ml bottle 20ml =1.12ppm 3x 3.36ppm weekly (clearly means P not PO4)
Aquarium Calc
39 Grams KNO3 in 500ml bottle 20ml= 6.7ppm 3x 30ppm weekly (flip flops from N to NO3)
11 Grams PO4 in 500ml bottle 20ml= 2.9ppm 3x 9ppm weekly (flip flops from P to PO4)
That's before we even get onto Rotala Butterfly which then says...
"To reach your target of 1.3ppm PO4 you will need to add 5.96 grams (equivalent to 1 tsp + 1/8 tsp + 1/16 tsp ) of K2HPO4 to your 500mL dosing container. Add 20mL of that mix to your 100L aquarium to yield:
Element ppm/degree
PO4 1.3
P 0.42
K 1.07"
Then throws more confusion into the mix by saying dose 2 or 4 times per week! Is it two or is it 4, ones double the other. To the novice, no definite answer there without knowing the correlation between PO4 an P.
The reason I haven't used teaspoons is this just throws more unneeded ambiguity into the mix. For instance I used my scales to do an average of of 10x1/8th levelled teaspoons of pot sulph when looking at my K. Now according to James again..
"1/8th tspoon results in 2.86ppm of K"
Going off my average an 1/8th tspoon of pot sulphate is actually 1.09grams so would result in 4.89ppm of K
Then goes to say..
Using Dry Powders
40-80 litres
1/8 tsp KNO3
1/32 tsp KH2PO4
1/32 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
80-150 litres
1/4 tsp KNO3
1/16 tsp KH2PO4
1/16 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
150-225 litres
1/2 tsp KNO3
1/8 tsp KH2PO4
1/8 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
225-350 litres
3/4 tsp KNO3
3/16 tsp KH2PO4
1/4 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
350-500 litres
1 1/2 tsp KNO3
1/2 tsp KH2PO4
1/2 tsp TNC Trace (CSM+B)
With tank size differences of at times 100 ltrs, again raising questions of which tank am I. I guess I'm just saying it doesn't surprise me that something that was designed to be a simple method of dosing ferts in the tank raises so many questions in the forum through different translations, lack of uniformity, ambiguity and lack of clarification on whether we're dealing with NO3 or N or PO4 and P IMO.
Just saying.
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