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Tom's ADA 45P - new design

Well I can say that 90% of the plants I added have now melted away. Completely. Including MM, HC, various other stems etc. The Wabi Kusa just rotted from bottom up. What a waste of a lot of money. No idea why. Here continues my not being able to grow anything at all in any tank since 2008. Added some more Hydrocotyle 3 days ago, and it's completely gone already. Just melted away. Why?? I don't understand.... I can't see that I'm doing anything differently to anyone else around here. Sure, the water is on the warm side at 28, but it is in the shops here too. I don't get it.

Daily water changes, siphoning debris, ADA ferts, plenty of CO2 (nearly double the injection rate of the tanks in the ADA gallery last year, and distribution shouldn't be an issue).
 
Sorry to hear this. That could be realted to water parameters. I often read that tap water in Japan is almost RO. Have you asked in your local shop about water additives they could be using?

I'd try some simple moss, it should be quite tolerant to soft water.
 
I'd really appreciate some advice! :)

A month ago I wrote to say that things were starting to melt, and yes I did lose maybe 90% of my plants. The problems are continuing, however, and I don't understand why. Growth is very slow. New growth is bright but it soon goes dark, brown and unhealthy-looking. Once trimmed, the lower half of the stems mostly just die off. The initial growth rate of the stems was very fast, but now, very little.

5 or so years ago I had several small tanks back in the UK, but never experienced problems like this. Since then I've tried 3 or 4 tanks yet never been able to keep anything alive. I don't understand it and it's getting very frustrating. I love this hobby, but I'm now seriously considering giving it up again.

Here's the setup:

ADA 45P
ADA Aquasoil Amazonia
LED lighting - seems to be the most popular brand here in Japan. On for 7 hours per day Click me
Eheim Classic filter
Do!Aqua CO2 set and Do!Aqua Music Glass diffuser - 1bps, into the flow of the filter. Seemingly good distribution. On 2 hours before lights, and off 1 hour before.
ADA Brighty K - 2 pumps per day
ADA Brighty Step 1 - 2 pumps per day
ADA Special Lights - 2 pumps per day

Water -

Water changes - 50% every 2-3 days, dechlorinated with Tetra stuff. I tried leaving it a week between changes but the water turns brown...... Possibly the wood, but it's the same branch I've used in two tanks before. It never leeched at all then.

Filter clean - every week or two, rinsing media in water from the tank.

Here are some pictures - mainly stems, but you get the idea. I lost all my HC, Hydrocotyle, Bolbitis, most of my MM (the rest is brown and doing nothing). Even the moss has recently started browning off.

IMG_8324.jpg


IMG_8323.jpg


IMG_8322.jpg


I'd really appreciate some pointers.

Tom
 
I'd really appreciate some advice! :)

A month ago I wrote to say that things were starting to melt, and yes I did lose maybe 90% of my plants. The problems are continuing, however, and I don't understand why. Growth is very slow. New growth is bright but it soon goes dark, brown and unhealthy-looking. Once trimmed, the lower half of the stems mostly just die off. The initial growth rate of the stems was very fast, but now, very little.

5 or so years ago I had several small tanks back in the UK, but never experienced problems like this. Since then I've tried 3 or 4 tanks yet never been able to keep anything alive. I don't understand it and it's getting very frustrating. I love this hobby, but I'm now seriously considering giving it up again.

Here's the setup:

ADA 45P
ADA Aquasoil Amazonia
LED lighting - seems to be the most popular brand here in Japan. On for 7 hours per day Click me
Eheim Classic filter
Do!Aqua CO2 set and Do!Aqua Music Glass diffuser - 1bps, into the flow of the filter. Seemingly good distribution. On 2 hours before lights, and off 1 hour before.
ADA Brighty K - 2 pumps per day
ADA Brighty Step 1 - 2 pumps per day
ADA Special Lights - 2 pumps per day

Water -

Water changes - 50% every 2-3 days, dechlorinated with Tetra stuff. I tried leaving it a week between changes but the water turns brown...... Possibly the wood, but it's the same branch I've used in two tanks before. It never leeched at all then.

Filter clean - every week or two, rinsing media in water from the tank.

Here are some pictures - mainly stems, but you get the idea. I lost all my HC, Hydrocotyle, Bolbitis, most of my MM (the rest is brown and doing nothing). Even the moss has recently started browning off.

IMG_8324.jpg


IMG_8323.jpg


IMG_8322.jpg


I'd really appreciate some pointers.

Tom

Hi Tom, I'm by no means an expert but I've been doing planted tanks for quite a while. In my experience, too frequent water changes and filter maintenance can actually do more harm than good. I used to do 30% changes weekly and then I stopped and left it completely to the plants and the filter to handle things and they seemed to appreciate the consistency much more. Believe it or not I was doing 10% water changes every 2-3 months and my parameters were all in check. I also only cleaned the filter once a year. The tank had never looked better.

It would be good to see some test results of your water to see what the issue really is as your equipment and scaping materials are no more unusual that anyone elses. If you can test for ph, gh, kh, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, Temperature and even salinity.
 
Hi there ! I'm very sorry to hear about that ; what I would do is test the water, both tap - if you are using it - and from the aquarium : KH, GH, Nitrates, Nitrites, Amonia, etc you get the idea ; I personally use the JBL "suitcase " test kit ; maybe I'm paranoid, but are you absolutely certain that there is no radioactive pollution from Fukushima ?
And secondly I would discard ADA fertilisers ; I've used them and it didn't work ; beside being very expensive - someone was complaining about prices in UK ; well he should have a look at those in France ; I switched for Tropica ,Aqua Rebel and DRAK products - the latter being a solid, long-term fertiliser, extremely effective - check my post The Force Awakens
Good luck


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Just wondering - what is the colour spectrum of the light? I can't seem to find anywhere on the link... It looks like you have a nutrient rich soil, with more than enough fertilization - but your plants are still suffering. Perhaps the light does not have the right colour spectrum -> 5500K+? What's the wattage as well? But it might be a case of too much light as well... From my experience, during the initial stages of the set-up where you have fresh plants, they are still adapting - getting used to being under water, and throwing their roots out there to start grabbing nutrients. This is how I like to think of it/describe it - If you have too much light, the leaves are saying hey look - so much energy let's grow! Then they end up trying to grow but how do they grow? Through the roots. If the roots aren't established they can't grab the nutrients they need - then end up cannibalizing itself for nutrients to grow (which is why the plants start melting from the base, whereas the top seeming looks fine). To counter this, I would recommend just the right amount of light so that the plant does not die, but is allowed to root. Maybe reduce the light period for a week or two and monitor growth. Once rooted, you can start amping things up. Like with anything, if you dont got the basics (roots) down, then trying difficult new tasks (growing fast and beautiful) is not possible (unless you're a genius)....
 
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Thank you for your replies.

Hi Tom, I'm by no means an expert but I've been doing planted tanks for quite a while. In my experience, too frequent water changes and filter maintenance can actually do more harm than good. I used to do 30% changes weekly and then I stopped and left it completely to the plants and the filter to handle things and they seemed to appreciate the consistency much more. Believe it or not I was doing 10% water changes every 2-3 months and my parameters were all in check. I also only cleaned the filter once a year. The tank had never looked better.

It would be good to see some test results of your water to see what the issue really is as your equipment and scaping materials are no more unusual that anyone elses. If you can test for ph, gh, kh, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, Temperature and even salinity.

Thank you - after a couple of weeks, there has been a fair amount of muck in the filter from plants that haven't been doing so well, and so I've been cleaning it quite regularly so as to avoid diatoms as far as possible. Hopefully when these issues get sorted, I'll be able to be a bit more relaxed about cleaning!

Being new in Japan, I'm slowly re-learning the hobby, products and services available. Next time I go to a shop, I'll see if I can work out how to ask about water testing! It'd be good to know what the tapwater is like here. I've heard a variety of things, ranging from concrete water to 'r/o-like'. I can't find anything reliable on the internet like I could in the UK, but maybe my Japanese isn't up to it!

And secondly I would discard ADA fertilisers ; I've used them and it didn't work ; beside being very expensive - someone was complaining about prices in UK ; well he should have a look at those in France ; I switched for Tropica ,Aqua Rebel and DRAK products - the latter being a solid, long-term fertiliser, extremely effective

Thanks Eduard - I chose ADA because I've had very good results with their fertilisers in the past (actually, my 3 most successful and healthiest high-tech tanks in the past were ADA). I've also used Tropica in the past. They are also not so expensive here when compared to back home. If you check the exchange rates now it still looks awfully expensive, but as I'm paid in Yen this is irrelevant - it's really no more expensive than any other type. Also, I've genuinely not yet seen another brand of plant fertiliser here in shops (not one containing anything useful, anyway) - shops mostly just have a case of ADA. I have, however, just ordered some powdered ferts from the UK, as I can't find anything except Potassium Carbonate here, even online - hopefully they get through customs unhindered.

Hi all,
That is a severe deficiency of one of the non-mobile elements essential for plant growth, the new growth is totally devoid of chlorophyll. Iron (Fe) would be the most likely. Can you get FeEDTA?

Thanks Darrel - that's good to know, but confusing. I'm using Amazonia and supposedly 'overdosing' on ADA ferts. I'm aware they are quite lean, though. Does this apply more to some plants than others? My 10-day-old Glosso is seemingly going well. As I just mentioned, I've ordered some powders from the UK. KNO3, KPO4 and a chelated trace mix.

Just wondering - what is the colour spectrum of the light? I can't seem to find anywhere on the link... It looks like you have a nutrient rich soil, with more than enough fertilization - but your plants are still suffering. Perhaps the light does not have the right colour spectrum -> 5500K+? What's the wattage as well?

Thanks Doubu - You're right, it doesn't specify the spectrum of light. It's a pretty crisp white, if that means anything at all. There are two rows of white, one of red and one of blue LEDs. The wattage and lumens, having just checked, are around half that of the equivalent ADA Aquasky 451. 13w and 700 lumens.

The Aquasky, too, is also not really horrifically costly compared to other options. I will admit I did go for a cheaper option though.
 
Hi all,
It's a pretty crisp white, if that means anything at all. There are two rows of white, one of red and one of blue LEDs. The wattage and lumens, having just checked, are around half that of the equivalent ADA Aquasky 451. 13w and 700 lumens.
It isn't the light.
I'm using Amazonia and supposedly 'overdosing' on ADA ferts. I'm aware they are quite lean, though. Does this apply more to some plants than others?
Honestly the severe chlorosis of the growing tips of your plants show that you don't have any of one of the non-motile elements, you really don't need to look any further.

It doesn't matter how much you have of all the other essential elements for plant growth, if one is severely deficient. It is <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. There is more in the "<linked thread">.

When you supply the ion that is missing new growth will be green, but the chlorotic leaves will never colour up, it is a non-motile element.

The non-motile elements are boron (B), calcium (Ca), copper (Cu), iron (Fe), manganese (Mn) and zinc (Zn), so you don't need a lot of any of them (they are micro-elements), and plants need very small amounts of boron, zinc, copper and manganese. The trace elements mix will supply these.

If you have very soft water, calcium deficiency is a possibility, if your water is hard it is more likely to be iron.

Plants from naturally alkaline conditions have mechanisms for obtaining iron, but plants from soft water won't and they will show chlorosis in base rich conditions. Iron deficiency is usually a problem with uptake, rather than total amount. Calcium can be supplied very easily from shells or coral gravel (both forms of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)).

I'll assume you don't have very soft water, and that it is iron deficiency. Because most iron compounds are insoluble you need to supply iron in <"a chelated form">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi Tom, I'm by no means an expert but I've been doing planted tanks for quite a while. In my experience, too frequent water changes and filter maintenance can actually do more harm than good. I used to do 30% changes weekly and then I stopped and left it completely to the plants and the filter to handle things and they seemed to appreciate the consistency much more. Believe it or not I was doing 10% water changes every 2-3 months and my parameters were all in check. I also only cleaned the filter once a year. The tank had never looked better.

It would be good to see some test results of your water to see what the issue really is as your equipment and scaping materials are no more unusual that anyone elses. If you can test for ph, gh, kh, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, Temperature and even salinity.

Yes, I "second that motion", oversized filtration and all that, but you need healthy plants and that's exactly the issue here
Haven't you read the guy's post ? He talks about water turning brown after only a week ; me too I was thinking of some deficiency, but no deficiency could explain it; and besides if the plants are decaying, deficiencies all over, WHERE ARE THE ALGAE ?
I don't know maybe it's sea water, or very hard fresh water, or maybe polluted with something ; radioactivity ? Last time I checked Fukushima was in Japan and this is no large country



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Hi Eduard18,

Fukushima is in north east of the country. According to Tom's profile, he appears to be in the south west.

Hi Tom,

How warm has the weather been? Could it be temperature driving out gases?
 
Nice apartment Tom! Mine was a bit smaller and had no tatami matting. :( It's much nicer to sleep on than carpeted flooring. Do you have pictures of your local store? Mine (in Shizuoka) was very neat, organized, and well stocked. My biggest shock was how much they were charging for plants vs. the hardware. Wabi kusa were more affordable than a la carte plants.
 
Well I've been triple dosing ADA since my last post (about 2 weeks), nothing has changed. Plants are still browning off right under the newest leaves, and nothing looks healthy. Although the Glosso is growing nice and fast, the leaves are quickly browning off. The brown doesn't rub off. I had the exact same problem in my last tank and never got to the bottom of it.

Despite having received EI powder ferts and a drop checker in the post, after just breaking both my lily pipes and CO2 diffuser in the last 24 hours, I'm about ready to give up this hobby yet again.
 
Triple dosing ADA ? which one exactly ? maybe you were triple dosing Macros and you need micros.

Did you trim the rotalas and wait 1-2 weeks and check if new growth if fine ? You need to trim because the existent bad leaves will not turn in good shape , only new growth will be looking good if you are on the right way with the ferts
 
Come on mate! Your scaping is too good for you to give up!

Could it be poor water flow? Is your filter an EHEIM Classic 250? What kind of lily pipes are you using?

From what I can see, ADA Brighty K provides potassium, ADA Brighty Step 1 provides Trace elements, and ADA Special Lights, well, I don't know...

If it is Iron deficiency like Darrel said (and if he says so, it probably is), you should be already providing enough... so you need to try a source of Iron with a different chelator (also like Darrel said). How hard is your water?

Also, like Darrel and AndreiD said, the deficiency is from a non-motile nutrient, meaning affected leaves won't recover... you'll only see a difference in new growing leaves.
 
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Triple dosing ADA ? which one exactly ? maybe you were triple dosing Macros and you need micros.

Did you trim the rotalas and wait 1-2 weeks and check if new growth if fine ? You need to trim because the existent bad leaves will not turn in good shape , only new growth will be looking good if you are on the right way with the ferts

Brighty K (Potassium), Step 1 (Micros) and Brighty Special Lights (Macros).

Yeah, when I trim, nothing at all happens for at least a week. Then when it does, it turns brown right under the newest leaves. It doesn't seem to be algae but more like leaf colouration, as it doesn't rub off. I trimmed the tops of the stems and replanted them a few days ago.

Could it be poor water flow? Is your filter an EHEIM Classic 250? What kind of lily pipes are you using?

I was using lily pipes that were basically the same shape as the standard green pipes - until I broke them yesterday. Now I've gone back to the standard green outlet.

I tried using the spray bar that comes with it. There wasn't enough power to distribute the CO2 bubbles, and I couldn't direct the flow towards the diffuser.

If it is Iron deficiency like Darrel said (and if he says so, it probably is), you should be already providing enough... so you need to try a source of Iron with a different chelator (also like Darrel said). How hard is your water?

That's something I've not been able to work out yet. I found the monthly water report for the closest city (25 miles away). It seems that depending on the area of the city, calcium/magnesium could vary between 51-120ppm, pH between 6.3 and 7.4. What translates as 'residue on evaporation' seems to include calcium, magnesium, silica, sodium and potassium, and is between 188-307ppm depending on where in the city. But, I'm a drive away from there. Isn't that hard?
 
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So I just visited a local shop and asked them to test my water. The pH was 6.8, and a little on the soft side - no extremes, but fairly soft. He said it was very much like the store water they use in their tanks, and shouldn't cause any issues.

While the Rotala isn't looking as severe as it was, everything looks a little brown still.

The only suggestion he did have was that the light I was using was, in his opinion, a little weak. It's a 13w LED. Saying that, his recommendation was actually only 10w, but had more LEDs. Could this have anything to do with it? Not enough light, leading to issues? I know the ADA equivalent is double the power. My Glosso is mostly growing up, rather than sideways. It's my first time using LEDs.

I was wary of being sold something I didn't need, so I didn't buy anything. His shop tanks are very clean and healthy, though.
 
I seem to now also be struggling with CO2-related algae after firstly I broke my diffuser, and then my CO2 bottle ran out. Then, the CO2 hose kept popping off the new diffuser for up to 3 days until I could change the hose over.

The brownness is also continuing to get worse and I've lost most of my Anubias. The moss is looking awful now, too. Have been dosing EI for a week. Lost 3 Amano shrimp. I just don't understand how a shop just down the road and with a very similar water source can use the same gear and yet have such different results. It's so, so frustrating.

Room temperature has also dropped from 27 to 12 within a week as we have no central heating or insulation here. Winter seems to have arrived.
 
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